OldTimer1960

I think the pass rush will be worse without Floyd. They did at least re-sign Jones and signed a backup 1T to keep the Bills LBs who are on the smaller side clean. I also worry about competent depth at CB if either Douglas or Benford get hurt and there is no quality depth at S right now. I also think they need a good backup to Oliver at 3T. Of course, those might be addressed in FA before or after the draft, but they don’t have much cap room and I don’t think they can solve those issues through the draft if they use their first two picks on WR. As I said, I am conservative regarding trading future picks as they can come back to haunt you.

How many receivers are going to play? Diggs, Kincaid, Samuel, Shakir and two rookies (and Knox and Cook) would have to split the available targets. You are right that a 25 2nd and 60 probably gets them up to mid-2nd. To me, that’s a lot to give up when the defense could really struggle this year. You might be giving up a high 2nd and getting late 3rd value for the pick. I admit that I am future risk averse in these matters.

If they take one early and then a WR is BPA at their pick after 2nd, fine. Those 4th, 5th and later picks don’t move you up far in either 1st or 2nd and I would not trade next year’s picks to move up.

I think because the best receiver options will likely be gone by 60, lends weight to trading down out of the first - IF you can make a fair deal. Even trading up in the 2nd to about pick 40 would cost at least both late 4ths they have. I don’t think they will want to go from around pick 40 to the 9th pick in the 5th without a pick.

I think the receiver pool will be pretty shallow by 60. You might get guys like Polk, Baker or Rice there - maybe an outside shot at Coleman, but the better prospects will be snapped up by mid-round (at least that’s my $.02 worth).

What is EPA per route? Hill is about 20lbs heavier than Worthy distributed on a shorter frame.

Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that you said that. What I was trying to raise is the idea that maybe we shouldn’t rule out the possibility of drafting a “non-X” receiver early. I still strongly believe that they need a big body WR, but I’m asking do they really want to avoid guys that are mostly or partially slot or move guys who are excellent prospects on the basis of having Samuel and a promising but not fully proven Shakir. This is meant as a question to spark discussion not as me arguing one way or the other.

I like that Shakir was trending upward at a pretty high rate to end last year, but are we getting ahead of ourselves thinking no way do they draft competition for Shakir? He caught 39 passes last year and defenses now have a year of film on him so they will try to take away what he thrived on last year. I am excited about Shakir, but I’m not sure that you can write it in ink that he is for sure a good starter in the slot or out wide.

The receiver class is very strong, but that doesn’t mean everyone in it is a future dominant receiver in the NFL, nor does it mean that a receiver that still needs development can’t contribute while they develop or that they won’t become outstanding. I think fans expectations are a little high. Patience will be required for many of these receivers and some who start modestly will become outstanding. Most rookies take time unless they are so physically dominant that it carries over to the league immediately. Even Bruce Smith had only 6.5 sacks as a rookie.

I’m a big fan of your knowledge, but what do you do if the top 3 and Mitchell and Thomas are gone by pick 28? I know that you would take Legette - and that might be the right thing to do, but assume that the Bills don’t have him rated before mid-2nd and then what? What WR left isn’t very similar to a mostly slot WR? Would you take Troy Franklin or Wothy? I was pretty hard on Franklin from the Combine, but possible I overreacted. Still, I don’t know that I’d take Franklin there. I’ don’t think I’d take Worthy, either.

Many of the top WR in the league we’re not 1st round picks.

I’m not trying to convince anyone that the Bills should take Robinson. I am just saying that I’ve watched 3 games vs Big 10 competition and I see that he has made an impact in those games (to my eyes). This isn’t the game video that I’ve watched, but this is all his rush snaps vs Michigan. He isn’t perfect, but his athletic traits are at least as impressive as any of the WR in this class and are basically the best of the edges in the class. Again, not arguing to pick him, but I would understand if they do.

Now, I’m not pounding the table for him, but Ladd McConkey continues to crush the athletic testing in draft run up. He posted a 20 yard shuttle time in the 95th percentile since 1999 and his 3-cone was 85th percentile among this year’s class. That doesn’t erase the fact that he does a lot of the same things that Kincaid, Samuel and Shakir do in terms of area of the field that they operate in, but he is a very good prospect.

I agree mostly, but I like what I’ve seen of Chop Robinson vs Michigan, Ohio State and IIRC, Iowa. He made impact in each of those games with numerous pressures, though I think only 1 sack. That’s against some of the best college competition (admittedly not SEC).

That’s too steep a price for 1 player, in my opinion.

28 & 60 & next year’s #1 might get you to pick 12ish. Not sure that is high enough. Regardless, I think it would be foolish to trade next year’s picks - they are going to need them as they will still be tight to the cap for the foreseeable future. FWIW, all 11 picks this year would maybe get them pick 13.

All I have done for S is to read scouting reports. With few exceptions, the reports I’ve read describe a lot of what they used to call Strong Safeties. - I think they call them “box” safeties now. Most are described as good in run support leaving something to be desired in coverage. I don’t think that is what the Bills are ideally looking for in a passing league. Now, maybe the reports I’ve read are wrong or maybe just that there are different opinions on the prospects.

It wasn’t that he tested poorly in the 40 or vertical, he just looked really shaky running drills- gauntlet and running patterns. I understand he said he was sick then, so maybe that’s all it was, but his thin frame also gives me pause. I think he’s a good step down from Mitchell and Thomas.

I don’t think it is loaded a S. Who do you like there that you don’t have to take in the 1st or 2nd? Looks like a bunch of box safeties mostly after the first few. Boy, I haven’t studied any film on the S group, but what I’ve read doesn’t align with “loaded class of S”.

Agree on the speed point and would be happy to have Bishop, but unless they take him at 60, they won’t get him. I think there will be better players at other positions at 60 and by the late 4th I don’t think there will be any S worth picking in this class. Maybe you could get Kam Kinchens there after his disastrous combine testing, but is he fast and explosive enough to use any pick on?

This doesn’t seem to be a very good S class once past the first couple. They may not get a good S prospect at all this year. Picking as late as they are in each round and looking at >60 players being picked between their 2nd and the next pick they are better off in my view just concentrating on finding the best prospects they can regardless of positional needs.

That’s right. I support what they are doing, but it is likely to cause short-term pain on D.

Really like Pearsall, but I think he is too similar to Samuel and Shakir. He kind of has to operate in the intermediate and short middle of the field and there will already be a lot of traffic there with Kincaind, Samuel, Shakir, Diggs.Quote I disagree - I think Coleman might very well be available at or close to 60, less likely, but still possible with Franklin in my opinion. I know that he says he was sick at the Combine and the game tape is not as bad as his Combine performance, but that was a pretty questionable performance there and his weight/strength is concerning. I think Legette will be gone by mid 2nd.

I don't like the Darius Robinson idea, but I challenge the idea that not drafting WR in round 1 is "failure". To me, if Brian Thomas Jr or Mitchell is available, I am completely on-board taking whichever one is there. If they are both gone (and Harrison Jr, Odunze and Nabers of course are gone), then I would consider other positions or trading back if a suitable offer is available. I have the highest respect for the guys who can evaluate the game film of these guys and I know some good evaluators like Xavier Legette, but I think you can get him or Troy Franklin 10 picks or more later. My hesitation with Legette is that he still needs route running refinement and he is an older prospect for a 1st round pick - I'm not saying I wouldn't be happy with him, but there is maybe more risk there than with other players. Franklin doesn't ring the bell for me, either, but I'd happily take him in a trade down. Xavier Worthy is just too small for my tastes at pick 28. To be clear, if the team decides to take Legette, Worthy or Franklin at 28, I will understand and support the pick, I just have some reservations with them. I don't see any other WR that I would strongly consider at 28 - I LOVE McConkey, but I don't think I'd take him there and I think Pearsall is really only a slot guy and too similar to Shakir and Samuel.

I don’t like this idea at all. Darius Robinson can be a good story with great effort, but he is not a good starting DE unless you are really looking for just a big run stopper and if that’s the case just re-sign Shaq Lawson. I’m not a pro scout, but Darius Robinson feels more like a tweener than some great weapon to move around the DL.