weehawk

You cant honestly be this ignorant? Smokers smoke by choice. A fair percentage of overweight people have medical issues not related to overeating. Tall people? Yeah, let's herd them all into the gas chambers. C'mon. All smokers litter by default. They litter the air. As for the environment, listening to you is like standing near a landfill. If you're going to make a pro-smoker argument, take a few minutes to think about it before spewing silly, non-relevant crap like this.

Upcoming play by play for most of the season... Hand off to Spiller for three yards Hand off to Spiller for two yards Short pass to whoever for three yards Punt With no O line this pick is wasted. With no O line Joe Montana in his prime couldn't make this team work. It's a really dumb pick unless they do something about the O line. The draft alone wont do it. We're still in plenty of trouble. This pick does nothing for us.

I cant believe my eyes. People honestly feel that we should not get Ben because he's got morals issues? The NFL and NBA are full of thugs (incl the Bills). So now we can only go for a championship with a team made up of clean, honest players? My god, what have we become? Give everything we have to get this guy (he's not even 30 yrs old) and the rest of the pieces will fall into place. Until or unless he is charged AND convicted, he remains a top-flight NFL QB and we need him BADLY!! Whoever gets him will net an extra 4-5 wins.

Same post-season message that we've seen since the board was opened. All is well, no problems here, this coming season will be different. Until or unless this team starts winning, it is what it is. A losing team with a poor staff, FO, and owner. Give it a rest please. The season is months away and we still have no OL or QB. I'll be optimistic when these two puzzle pieces are in place. Until then, I predict 5-11 for next season.

You failed to mention ridding the state of union control. That's a big part of NYs problem. There will never be well-paying jobs in upstate until or unless you get rid of union control. No one wants to operate a 21st century business in a 20th century labor environment. The unions are good at one thing, taking care of themselves and enriching their leaders. They could care less about anyone else as long as they get their guaranteed piece of the pie; even if it comes at the cost of entire cities and states. NY is doomed until or unless it is released from the stranglehold of the unions. They actually think that creating 400 jobs at Govt Motors is a big deal. They need to offset that reporting with how many jobs were lost last year. This is one of the key reasons why the Bills will eventually leave. It has nothing to do with the fans selling out the stadium and it has nothing to do with a new stadium. The NFL wants to do business in geographic areas (not stadiums) that generate money. Buffalo simply does not generate any significant amounts of money and at this rate they never will. If I had the means to invest a billion dollars in a city, Buffalo would be near or at the bottom of my list. Not because of the people, but because of the unions and the government. It's just a lousy place to do business and has been for decades.

No Sunday Ticket for me again. I'll watch them on the internet. Crappy reception for what looks to be another crappy team. *Sigh*

Wow! I got a little choked up reading that. Just imagine what the city could have been with a downtown dome, an MLB team, and the Sabres. I cant count the Braves because we proved that we weren't a pro b-ball town. People have no problem with Pittsburgh and they have three of the big four sports teams there. Same with Cleveland. These are rust belt cities with lousy weather that somehow scored the big ones that Buffalo could not. Some of the stats were sad too compared to now... 17th nationally in effective buying power - I could not find our current rank, but it's not close to 17 Buffalo's television market ranks in the top 15 in the United States - We're 52 now Man, have we come a far way down from '69. This is just another argument that in order to stay in the NFL, the area is going to have to find a way to fund a renovation of RWS. I think that the best investment anyone could make right now is to get Sabres season tix. If the Bills leave (and I think it's a possibility), the Sabres waiting list will make the Maple Leafs list look pale in comparison. The FIRST thing a new Bills owner is going to want is either a new stadium or a "major" renovation of RWS. I highly doubt that any new owner will keep the team here without one or the other. We might as well get the ball rolling now, but I'm sure we wont given NYs dysfunctional govt.

Yes, please stay out. Douche.

Well, if that's the case then enjoy them while you can. The team has a lot going against it right now: 1) Lousy team 2) New, unproven staff 3) Questionable ownership after RWs demise 4) Stadium issues 5) Low ticket prices resulting in lower revenues 6) Terrible corporate base 7) NFL labor issues that could seriously hurt small market teams The Bills are not alone. Several teams have these same issues and they all cant move. JAX has a modern stadium and they might leave anyway. OAK has many of these same problems too. I'm just saying that it's not only about the stadium. There are a lot of negative variables that have this team in a bad place right now. A new stadium wont help.

Ok. Apparently, that problem can be solved though, since KC has done it by expanding 25 ft walkways into 40 footers as part of their $375 million renovation. We dont need a new stadium. We need a renovation like GB or KC to keep the NFL (and Bills fans) happy. It can be done for less than half the cost of a new stadium and the tailgaters get to keep the parking lots. Problem is, I dont see where the money is going to come from to pay for even a modest renovation project. If anyone expects Schumer to help us, they are delusional. RW wont pay for it, so that leaves the eventual new owner to pay for it probably in combo with new taxes. I just dont see it happening. The NFL can threaten us all they want, but if there's no money, what are you going to do?

Fans at Saturday's Texans-Chiefs preseason game at Arrowhead Stadium "will get to see the first" 70% of what will end up being a $375M renovation of the venue, according to Matt Campbell of the K.C. STAR. Chiefs President Denny Thum: "I think they'll see the 'wow factor' of Arrowhead Stadium." The "most noticeable improvements are two new high-definition score/video boards that are football-shaped." There is also a "new LED ribbon board encircling the stadium interior." Chiefs officials said that the ring of honor around the stadium bowl that "highlighted great Chiefs players of the past is gone, but the players will be remembered in the ribbon board display." The floodlights on the north side of the stadium "have been enhanced," and the new sound system is "state-of-the-art." Concourses "have been expanded from an average of 25 feet to an average of 40 feet" in width. The stadium now "will be 1.62 million square feet, or 443,000 square feet larger than it used to be." The Chiefs' "main aim in updating their stadium is to provide more space and more amenities." For men, there is a 36% "increase in restroom facilities," while for women, there is a 96% increase. There are "81 more concession points of sale." The total seating capacity "has been reduced by about 2,000 and will top out next year at 77,187." The number of premium suites has "increased and the existing ones have deepened" (K.C. STAR, 8/14).

Sure. I realize that. Problem is that even with lower avg house prices, the kids are still leaving. With no jobs it doesn't matter how low the home prices are. Also, a lot of those "lower priced" homes are in areas that I wouldn't let my dog live in.

Are you talking about the young fans that leave WNY in droves every year so they can get a decent job and afford a house with less than $6000 a year in taxes attached to it? If you're banking the future of the area on people under 30, you're not keeping up with current events. While RWS is far from the NFLs best, it is also far from the worst. Ever been to Candlestick Park for a 49ers game? Now that's a crap hole and it's in one of the so-called best cities in the world. RWS is utilitarian. However, it also gets ranked as one of the best in the league for tailgating. Considering the team has been crap for a decade, tailgating is about all anyone has to look forward to at these games and it's why attendance has remained stable. A new stadium does nothing but make the game-day experience more comfortable, especially for the corporate fat cats and not so much for the "young fans." However, it does nothing to improve the team. I'd take RWS and the playoffs any day over a new stadium and more 6-10 seasons. If you're looking for state-of-the-art anything in Buffalo, you need to get out of WNY. It just aint happenin now or in the future.

You're right, to an extent. However, more bathrooms and concessions will thin out the crowds to a more manageable level. Currently, everyone is bunched up due to the lack of properly spaced out bathrooms and stands. Increase those and you thin out the tunnel mayhem at halftime. You dont eliminate it, but you do improve upon it. As far an an evacuation goes, I wouldnt want to see that at ANY NFL stadium. 60k+ people rushing to an exit will mean death for some of them.

I think the cost to renovate RWS to bring it up so-called NFL standards would hover around 300 million. A new stadium (non-dome) would probably be closer to 750 million if not more. There will be no new stadium for the Bills. I cant see govt money being spent on it and no one would build it privately. If anything, we should be comparing RWS with Lambeau. If GB gets to keep their team with an ancient, renovated stadium, then why are getting pressure? 2003 renovation By the end of the 1990s, the Packers believed that they needed to update the facility to remain financially competitive in the NFL. Rather than build a new stadium, Chairman/CEO Bob Harlan and President/COO John Jones unveiled a $295 million plan to renovate Lambeau Field in January 2000. It was to be paid for partly by the team via the 1997-98 stock sale, which netted more than $20 million. Most of the proceeds were to be paid through a 0.5% sales tax in Brown County and personal seat license fees on season ticket holders. After their plan won approval by the Wisconsin State Legislature, it was ratified by Brown County voters on September 12, 2000 by a 53%-47% margin. Construction began early in 2001. The massive redevelopment plan was designed to update the facilities, add more premium and suite seating, yet preserve the seating bowl, keeping the storied natural grass playing field of the "frozen tundra." The project was completed in time for the 2003 season, bringing the current capacity to 72,928. Construction management was conducted by Turner Construction Sports, and proved to be of remarkably little disruption to the 2001 and 2002 seasons. By contrast, the Chicago Bears needed to relocate to Memorial Stadium of the University of Illinois in Champaign in 2002 while Soldier Field was reconfigured. The Packers have now been tenants at Lambeau Field longer than any other NFL team has occupied its own current stadium. In 2007, the Packers completed their 51st season at Lambeau, surpassing the all-time NFL occupancy record set by the Chicago Bears at Wrigley Field (1921–70). (While Soldier Field in Chicago has been the site of a football stadium longer, it was not the home of the Bears until 1971.) Only the Boston Red Sox at Fenway Park and the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley can boast of longer active home-field tenures in American professional sports. So, the Packers are in the NFLs oldest stadium and it's capacity almost matches RWS. Their new ticket avg for next year is $72. Ours is $59. The Packers situation is very much similar to ours. The only way to squeeze more money out of the stadium is to renovate and raise ticket prices. If it's not about money and only about the NFLs vanity, then why doesn't GB get pressured to build a new stadium? Personally, I question the need for a full-blown renovation. If they put $50 million into RWS to update bathrooms, concessions, and other cosmetic stuff, you'd have a stadium as good as Lambeau.

Where will this additional stadium revenue come from? Simply because the stadium is new? Unless you are talking about an 80k+ sized stadium at $100 a ticket, there is not a lot more money to be made from the stadium. We have a very low corporate base and an economy made up of union, govt, and medical care workers that mostly make lower middle-class wages. If the argument is that the team needs to make more money at the gate to survive, then you might as well say goodbye now. Avg NFL ticket = $75 Bills new avg ticket = $59 If they raised it to the NFL avg, they'd make an addl 10.5 million a season. Not enough to make that much of a difference and it assumes that we sell out every game (pre-season too). I just dont see how a new stadium even comes close to saving the team. In fact, I think it would ultimately hurt attendance due to higher prices across the board. Let's not forget that everything else associated with the stadium increases too. Parking, beer, hot dogs, etc. AND, they better build it with as much tailgating space as they have now, or they'll lose the party crowd. Worry about getting back to the playoffs. A new stadium is not needed and could hurt the tewam more than it helps.

How does a new stadium solve anything? They already get 73k in there to watch bush-league games (now at a $59 average ticket price). A new stadium means only one thing, much higher ticket prices. I know there's some dumb people in the area when it comes to the Bills, but I cant believe that people would pay upwards of $100 a ticket to watch this mess in a new stadium. I also dont get Goodell's statement. What needs improvement? Ok, the bathrooms and some more concession stands. Otherwise, it's a decent facility for an economically depressed area that sees year over year population decreases. They struggle to sell the corporate boxes as it is, so no upgrades are needed there. Finally, I dont see any govt money flowing into WNY for this. This would have to be a privately built stadium and no one is going to invest that kind of money into Buffalo (sadly).

Just curious. Why are we headed for disaster? This team has been a disaster for over a decade and yet the faithful line up for every game. I'm convinced that barring Dallas-type ticket prices, that this team will continue to mostly fill the stadium regardless of the coach, GM, FAs or anything else. RW figured this out long ago. It's not about winning anymore. It's about the party and not much else. For $60 you get an eight hour party. Concerts cost more than that and they only last about three hours. From a party perspective, the Bills are hands-down the best value in the NFL. What difference will winning really make? The stadium is full anyway.

It feels great. Anything I can do to get out of that cold in Buffalo, it's great,'' Owens said Wednesday during his party at the Fontainebleau Miami Beach hotel.

Of course there are potential local buyers. There always has been. But these guys didn't get rich by being stupid. I think buying the Bills in their current state (low ticket prices and lousy performance) would be one of the dumbest investments around. It has nothing to do with the area. It's about the team. Ok, let's review this again. 1) Buffalo's fan base is based on an average NFL ticket price of $35. The league average is $75. 2) The Bills are valued at $914 million. Whoever buys them is not going to pay cash and will need to do a fair amount of creative financing to buy them. 3) The new buyer is not Ralph. They did not start with a $50,000 investment and make a billion dollars out of it. In other words, the new owner(s) will need to MAXimize revenues to pay off the inevitable loans that they will need to take out for the purchase. 4) The only real ways to max out revenues is to charge more for tickets, pay less for talent, and sell out wildly expensive suites. None of these are very viable options that would help keep the team in Buffalo. 5) There's no knowing for sure, but I think it's a good bet that the fan base drops at least 30% if ticket prices are raised to the NFL average and the Bills keep losing. The key to survival is not selling out the stadium at $35 a pop. The team needs to start winning in a big way, and I dont mean one playoff game and out-type winning. I mean the AFC championship in Buffalo, and more than once in ten years kind of winning. That's what will put $75 a ticket fannies in the seats and keep the team in the area.

Add me to your ignore list too. It will be an honor.

WRONGO! People keep buying tix because they average out to $35 a game! Not because of the move threat. I'd love to see how many of the loudmouths on this board would still go see them at the league average of $75 a game. Would you still go at $75 a game? I wouldn't. Stupid waste of time and money on an organization that doesn't give a lick about their fans. They are going to leave anyway. Save your money for your kids or retirement.

Let's see some results, then we can talk support. They dont operate a non-profit you know. Show the fans some results and then we'll talk. They're just two news guys as far as I'm concerned. If the team still sucks, then there's no real surprises. If they do well, then we'll all have something interesting to watch on Sundays and talk about on Mondays. The mediocrity has gone on far too long to get excited about any new guys that come along. In other words, wake me up when they make the playoffs.

Ok. Let's all remember this thread. When RW goes and the team is sold and moved, let's not hear how awful it all is. The majority on this thread say that RW owes us nothing. Ok then. When the team moves post-RW, no crying or whining, ok? I believe that RW has an obligation, although not a debt to the area. I feel he is obliged to make every reasonable attempt to keep the team in town while at the same time securing the financial future of his family. Both can be done and I dont think it would be that hard to do. I stand by my previous comments that the team will be sold and moved upon RWs demise. It probably wont happen instantly, but a couple of years after his passing, the team will be gone. Public pressure can be an amazing thing. If the area fans REALLY want to keep the team, they should not be giving in and telling the world that RW owes us nothing. You've let the man off the hook emotionally and that practically guarantees that they will move. Make a stink! Tell RW that he has an obligation to the area and that his legacy depends on it. It may not make a difference, but it beats the heck out of giving up.

Dont worry. The stadium would be filled if The Mad Hatter was coaching and Mickey Mouse was QB. The only thing that draws the crowds anymore is the party and $35 a seat tickets. As long as these two things remain constant, you'll have a full stadium. Nothing else makes a difference, which is proven by the fact that the stadium has been full for a decade of some of the worst football imaginable.