PDaDdy

Don't go using facts to back up your opinion!!!! Despite those great numbers some think that Donny is no good and all but on social security retirement.

"decent"...did you watch any of our games this year?

Well if the Bills front office was dumb enough to only keep one NT on the entire roster that would indeed be a problem. Fortunately they will probably be smart about it and get a free agent NT to compete with Cody in camp and rotate with him like they do with other over sized NTs.

Roddy White was a raw rookie WR with less than 2 years of experience that couldn't crack the starting lineup and stay healthy enough to start more than half of the seasons games. That's who he was. BUT, being the rational person you are I assume you will blame his shortcomings on Vick.

This old tired discussion is 3rd only to the BS discussions about Jason Peters and The QB controversy. Seriously people. Have you lived under a rock? Do you not know that Vick lead the Falcons to many wins and playoff appearances with absolutely ****ty WRs if memory serves ? Whoever thinks that Vick has no talent is an idiot that is letting their personal feelings about his legal troubles cloud their pathetic little minds. If you don't want him here for his off field transgressions which he paid his dues for, say that is your reason and you want to continue to punish the man even more and that he is beyond redemption in the eyes of god. Don't make up bull **** about him not having been a very effective and exciting football player on the field. I'm sorry to be so blunt. He is not Peyton Manning that sits in the pocket. The guy is more of a Randall Cunningham Steve Young in his early days type QB. I too prefer QBs who are good traditional pocket passers that have the ability to run as a SECOND option but I wouldn't be some dumb as to say that Vick wasn't very effective at what he did.

Dog, you seriously need to give it up man. If you are judging Trent's potential by one game then JP is the next Brett Farve. Seriously! He had ONE truly good game against a TRULY terrible team. That single game is basically his only example of any half way decent down field throwing. The "Trent Flame Carriers" cling to it desperately as proof that their guy really isn't as bad as almost EVERYONE else now believes.

Answer me this. Is the spread offense determined by position title or by how it attacks the defense and the match ups and isolation it tries to take advantage of? I could be wrong but I think there is some confusion between spreading out your pre snap formation and spreading out the defense by attacking at different levels from sideline to sideline.The Bills were able to do this in many ways including from 2 TE and or 2 RB sets. Our TE's were money and they could get down the field. Our RBs, a Ronnie Harmon dropped pass aside, were also damn good receivers. I think the K-gun started out being basically anytime Kelly was in the shot gun. The "gun" portion if you will and initially when McKellar was in the game, the K portion.

It never ceases to amaze me how it is apparently impossible to complement Fred Jackson without also taking a shot at Lynch. *sheesh* Let's run everybody who has made a probowl out of town. Hell let's get rid of Morman too. Our special teams sucked this year! Lazy ass kicker who can't kick a simple ball and hit the spots.

I guess a spread, is not a spread, is not a spread. To me that short underneath quick passing game sounds like the West Coast offense. Doesn't it to you? Again, I'm not an expert so can you explain the difference between the quick decision, intermediate route, move the chains spread offense and the quick decision, intermediate route move the chains West Coast offense? And I in NO WAY WHAT SO EVER advocate rolling the dice on every big arm QB that comes down the pike. I do however advocate not rolling the dice on every "he was good in college" noodle arm QB that comes down the pike in hopes that he can be the 1 - 20 to overcome his short comings in the arm department. HUGE difference there.

Schobel hasn't weighed as much as 245 in years. Matter of fact I believe there is an old buffalobills.com article where he played under 240 most of the time. Facts like these that escape people kill me. Everyone says that Maybin was too light to play DE. True he is probably better for linebacker but it isn't because of his weight he weighs more than Schobel does. It just doesn't make sense. As a rush linebacker and pass rushing specialist I really don't think Schobel's primary function would be to anchor and tie up LTs. Someone else posted this in some other thread but take a look at this article about the various forms of 3 - 4 and 4 -3. A 5 technique plays on the outside shoulder of the LT. This is not an anchor and tie up blockers position. A "4" 2 gap technique possibly but not a 5. http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/0...el_idpguide.php

+100 We know this but some still hold a torch.

Isn't that my point though? To spread the field in the NFL you need a big arm. Your scenarios support this assertion. Leach had success with some bad QBs in the college ranks but they stunk it up if they made it to the pros. Just talking about spreading the field before people drag up the corpse of Joe Montana or any other of a minute handful of successful QBs that didn't have a big arm.

QUOTE (dog14787 @ Feb 5 2010, 01:47 PM) * You mean make decisions as he's getting planted into the turf because our O-line can't pass protect properly. We see things differently, put TE behind a decent O-line/good coaching and Trent Edwards succeeds in my opinion. I changed my signature but it used to be a quote from Jim Kelly on Edwards. It was basically something to the same effect. When Edwards had his chances when the line held up he had no balls to get the job done and his accuracy was HORRIBLE. Some of it is on the line a lot of it is on Edwards.

ALSO...something people keep trying to diminish the importance of....the bigger your QB's arm the more field you can challenge If your noodle arm, ballless hurler can't throw the ball over 30yds in the air it's he's certainly not as effective at spreading/stretching the field.

If I'm not mistaken TE are able to run various patterns. Again I certainly could be wrong as I am no expert but spread offense does not = 3 - 5 WR does it? I thought it was more about the routes and your approach to challenging the defense not necessarily where people initially lined up. Matter of fact lining up in more of a run look formation and then challenging the entire field could have been a good way to disguise their true intent.

I wasn't trying to come down real hard on that statement but I just felt bad for the guy. Humbling himself and asking for someone else's wisdom to improve his knowledge. Do you really need to know the exact details and nuances of the spread formation to predict who teams will draft? Mel Kiper would probably wear a jock strap as a helmet because he has no clue what it's for. Yet he is reasonably accurate as far as guessing who will draft who. It's all just educated guessing. I/we love the speculation but it is just that, speculation.

No Huddle -Clock management strategy desired to dictate pace and prevent defensive substitutions Spread Offense -Formation and plan off attack designed to spread the defense out and make them cover a lot of offensive options. The K-Gun employed both of these principals. Just because a car is RED and FAST doesn't make it any less RED. The K-Gun was no less a spread offense whether they huddled or not. Running it at the pace that they were able to made it even more successful. It in no way made it any less of a "spread".

Don't forget that those teams also had GREAT offensive lines to give their trigger man the time and piece of mind to do their thing

QUOTE (Pygskin36 @ Feb 5 2010, 12:29 PM) * No offense, but if you don't understand what the spread offense is, you probably should not be posting mock drafts... THIS really says it all. The poor guy is trying to learn something and educate himself instead spewing pompous BS about how everyone else has no clue and theirs is the only opinion that matters.

I would tend to disagree on Schobel. If anything I think this might make it more likely that he stays. Schobel finally had his first good year since 2006. I don't think that it is health or effectiveness that could be driving him to retire. If anything I would say it was frustration with the organization, coaching and the schemes that Buffalo has run. I would guess we keep Kelsay or Denney as a back up or rotational DE. Whichever is cheaper in my mind.

People are thick headed sometimes. A "real offense" is one that is effective. The spread offense is just as real as any other. I am no expert on it's definition but doesn't the spread offense sound one HELL of a lot like the K-gun? When the Bills were most successful we had Thurman Thomas running wild and going out into patterns as a WR. He lead the league in yards from scrimmage for a bunch of years running if memory serves. We also had Lofton, Beebe and Reed in addition to Keith McKeller who the "K"-Gun was actually named for not Jim "K"elly. Even in my youth I noticed that when the Bills went to that formation it gave defenses fits and they just couldn't win every match up that our offense forced them to deal with. Andre read against a nickel DB? McKeller against a safety? Thomas against a LB? .....forget about it! Sounds pretty much like the spread offense to me

Why does everyone think that we are switching to a 3 - 4 100% when we will be running a hybrid? Why does everyone forget that Schobel can tackle, support the run and occasionally drop into coverage from his DE spot? Why does everyone think that "First Step" "High Motor" Maybin CAN'T move to OLB? Answer me those questions. If I'm not mistaken Maybin is 100% fine with playing LB and his mentor Lavaar Arrington basically said that this is where he feels Maybin should be anyway. I have no information of this myself but others have said that this move may actually sway Schobel into continuing to play instead of retiring.

Yes, he quickly threw to RBs and 3 yard WR patterns all day.

The 3-4/4-3 hybrid will work just fine for us. Poz was too slow and required to cover too much ground as a tampa 2 LB. Giving him a smaller area of responsibility should make him much more decisive in attacking a proper hole and not getting washed out of plays. Kawika Mitchell was not the best in coverage and allowing him to focus on plugging the run in the middle should also make him more effective. With a 330 - 370 lb Mt Cody like NT Poz and mitchell will be free to tackle the ball carrier all day long.