PDaDdy

I've got to say the Kyle Orton votes are surprising. He's not bad and he has shown what he can do in a good system but I wonder can he repeat that success here.

Troy Aikman said he could have gotten 10 - 15, I say all he needed was 5 but we are both wrong I guess. All hail Buftex "the Clairvoyant". LOL. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHbh-kt-PFA Since you challenged me on this I actually thought to check youtube. Pause the video at 5 sec and 6 sec then tell me again he couldn't have made it out of bounds for 5 yards. If he just pulls that ball down for the pump fake instead of actually letting it go Vikes win on a 47 yard field goal or at least go into overtime pissed at the kicker not the savior who was supposed to lead them to victory. That's not even counting a potential block from the RB out in the flat that could have CREAMED that defender if Favre ran deep towards the sideline. I agree that there were a LOT of contributing factors to their loss. But sadly in life and football it all comes down to defining plays. DESPITE all of their mistakes the Vikes where in a position to win and Favre BLEW IT!!! .....QUICK how many turnovers where there in the wide right game? Nobody remembers. What they remember is Norwood blew a kick at the end of a game. Most don't even remember that he blew more than one.

Given the WR's footing and momentum I don't think he could have really come back towards the ball. Although you are correct that it wasn't the whole reason why the Vikings lost but the point of the thread is was it the worst interception ever? Yes the Vikings as a TEAM lost 4 or 5 turn overs prior to the interception. The problem is they were in a position to win the game when Farve made the last one! Nobody remembers a 1st quarter fumble but they remember a 4th quarter interception in scoring position.

Uh...I think that's a safe assumption that we have all seen the play. And yes he could have made the 5 yard run. OOB may have been a stretch but the guy had 5 yards in him. If memory serves from here at work he was very close to the LOS with no defender inside 3 yards of him when he chucked that ill advised ball.

Kyle Orton, Denver Broncos (27) Jason Campbell, Washington Redskins (28) Chad Pennington, Miami Dolphins (34) Tarvaris Jackson, Minnesota Vikings (27) Kellen Clemens, New York Jets (27) Troy Smith, Baltimore Ravens (26) – Restricted FA Michael Vick, Philadelphia Eagles (29) Other than possibly Chad Pennington and his super weak arm I think any of these guys would be an upgrade for us. A good number of them come with some mobility which could help them running for their lives behind our current offensive line. Personally, I think I am leaning towards Troy Smith or Micheal Vick with Kellen Clemens and Travaris Jackson tied as close seconds. Yes, I was leaning towards Troy Smith before Donte started campaigning for him. Other than some ridiculously bad luck 2 years ago Troy was going to be the Ravens starter. Unfortunately for him Flacco was a higher draft pick, manned the wheel while his team won a few games and had that prototypical QB size coaches swoon over.

Kyle Orton, Denver Broncos (27) Jason Campbell, Washington Redskins (28) Chad Pennington, Miami Dolphins (34) Tarvaris Jackson, Minnesota Vikings (27) Kellen Clemens, New York Jets (27) Troy Smith, Baltimore Ravens (26) – Restricted FA Other than possible Chad Pennington and his super weak arm I think any of these guys would be an upgrade for us. A good number of them come with some mobility which could help them running for their lives behind our current offensive line. Personally, I think I am leaning towards Troy Smith with Kellen Clemens and Travaris Jackson tied as close seconds. Yes, I was leaning towards Troy Smith before Donte started campaigning for him. Other than some ridiculously bad luck 2 years ago Troy was going to be the Ravens starter. Unfortunately for him Flacco was a higher draft pick, manned the wheel while his team won a few games and had that prototypical QB size coaches swoon over.

Seriously WORST EVER!!! Yes Farve is a gunslinger. Yes he has failed and also succeeded attempting this pass before. No I am not surprised he made the attempt. Matter of fact I said just before the play Farve just needs to not throw a dumb pick trying to force things. The point is....when all you have to do is take the 5 yards and run out of bounds and let your kicker make a 40 yd field goal there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to take the risk. It was dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

QUOTE (manbeast @ Jan 26 2010, 01:29 PM) * Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Big Ben, and Mark Sanchez they don't have to put up monster #'s they just have to be coached properly. 6-10 isn't hard to top He didn't specifically state this but I believe that that is what he is saying. Great defense and a great running game allow you to have a winning team with a properly coached rookie QB.

Worst EVER!!!! That play and ill advised pass should be shown to EVERY rookie QB who enters the NFL. It is the quintessential gun slinger ill advised throwing back across your body and the field reckless play with EVERYTHING on the line. Farve's come back, the Vikings entire season and his legacy was riding on that pass. All of it literally thrown away with one bad decision. I like Farve and feel badly for him but that was the most bone headed play I have ever seen on the largest stage outside of the superbowl.

Focusing on immediate needs is only short sighted if it hurts you in the long run. That is an important concept to understand. I don't believe skipping getting a first round QB in this draft hurts us in the long run. You can get better fast and even better in the long run with the strategy of putting your O-line together first. Please don't try to make it a case of either or because it is not!

Absolutely agree we need both. Something that has been forgotten in the discussion is free agency. We can get a QB OR a LT in free agency. Moving back to the draft ...what position is more likely to help you immediately? A rookie LT or a rookie QB? Who will help the run game more...a rookie QB who you have to protect and limit his reads and throws...or a rookie LT? Our best answer to get better the fastest is to go LT in the draft and QB in free agency. ANYONE we get in free agency will be better than what we have.....AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!....get someone that has a freakin' arm. I am so freaking tired of rainbow balls down field giving the DBs all day to get there or the 5 yrd dump off.

Did you not see that we finished #4 overall in sacks allowed with almost exactly 3 a game? That doesn't even count knock downs, hurries etc. So, are you really comparing a rookie QB who has never played a down in the NFL with a HORRIBLE LT situation with what we have now...to one of the best, sure to be hall of fame 10 year plus veteran QBs that makes a mediocre LT look serviceable? Is that really what you are doing to try to prove your point? There are only a handful of VETERAN QBs that can make a bad line look better. A ROOKIE WILL GET KILLED!!! Arizona has perhaps 1 less than above average o-linemen in Gandy. Partially due to youth, ALL of our current guys are average at the VERY best.

Sounds like you guys are in agreement then. Since we don't have a shot at a good QB we don't get one right since this is a bad year? How do you know you have a good QB if he has a bad line and can't throw the ball from his backside? Maybe you get the QB, get him killed for a year or 2, get your line fixed and then find out your "good QB" really sucks and regressed because he was too busy looking out of his earhole?

I agree Clausen would have to sit at least a year ....but we know today's NFL. If you get paid ...you have to play. No way we draft a QB at 9 and he doesn't start given the crap we currently have at QB. He get's killed behind our Ralph Wilson/Russ Brandon bargain basement O-line and he is committed to a mental facility by years end with shell shock and constantly hearing footsteps. Levitre to LT?...Don't mean to be a jerk but he's not even a great NFL guard right now. What makes you think he can even be an average LT with his short little alligator arms? The guy we need to play LT on our line is NOT anywhere on the current roster. If we get one and give our QB a fighting chance it's got to be a high priced free agent wanting a lot, if not, Peter's money or an unproven rookie in the draft burning our first round pick and paying $7 million a year to a guy that has never played a down in the NFL.

Here is another fact..... GOOD QBS DON'T WIN WITHOUT A GOOD LINE. Double Period..

To an extent there is some validity to your point but ONLY if you let the guy sit. I don't care who our QB is we need a line first and foremost. [insert standard statement about QB not being able to throw the ball lying on his back]. The only way we go QB first round is if you think the guy we can get is a "DIFFERENCE MAKER". I'm not talking about an ok guy. I mean a difference maker. Unless that guy is on the board when you draft you fix the O-line. It will be a shame to waste a #9 on an LT just to finally admit that we didn't have anyone on the roster that could hold Jason Peters jock. But hey, we love to waste first round picks on filling holes because we won't pay fair market value for players we spend the time to develop and become good at what they do. The answer is to build the line. How many examples do we need to see that that is the way to build a successful team? Falcons and Matt Ryan, Ravens and Joe Flacco, Jets and Mark Sanchez. I unfortunately have to agree with the Donte Whitner tweet I heard about. Troy Smith would be a pretty damn good idea for us in the short term with the possibility to surprise and become more than a stop gap measure. If it were not literally for some freak rare form of tonsillitis he got in preseason 2 years ago...HE WAS NAMED THE STARTER over Flacco in Baltimore. Look up the articles he actually had the overwhelming support of his team mates up to that point. Flacco got the nod because they had no one else and the rest is history. The guy is decently mobile and I think was a good leader and winner at the college level. If I am not mistaken he has been in the league 4 years and should be PRIMED to make a name for himself and start in a place like Buffalo. If not Troy Smith...f' it...get Vick in here if he comes cheap. No way Philly keeps all 3 of those QBs on the roster with those salaries.

McNeil?....why would we pay a young guy who came up the ranks and proved himself the money he deserves? We already had that guy! Draft picks aside, which are a whole other waste of resources consideration, McNeil has been under paid and will be looking for his pay day. Kind of like some other young stud LT I seem to recall. Please spare me the sour grapes, fat greedy so and so comments...or not. I think I have finally settled upon this sort of issue being 95% of the Bills problems!!! Finding good players in the draft and even sometimes in free agency is tough enough. ONE and potentially the ONLY thing Marv Levy the GM said that makes sense is something to the effect that "the most important free agents you sign are your own"!! Good teams keep and compensate their talent. Bad teams continually let good talent go and have to restock the same positions over, and over, and over in the draft. If people are tired of talking about this concept as it applies to our LT situation consider our secondary. How many guys in our secondary have we let go because we didn't want to spend a couple bucks extra to pay them what they were worth after we got done milking their rookie and or under market value contracts? Approximately 50% or our draft picks in the last 15 20 years have been at the 4 positions in the secondary on defense. THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!! Did we really need to waste a first round pick on McLovin when Greer was good enough and is going to be starting in the super bowl for the Saints in 2 weeks? Did we really need to move back into the first round in the draft to get McCargo when Pat Williams is a perennial pro bowler? How's that working out for us? But here we are ready to do it again at LT. Can't change the past so I suppose at some point we just have to bite the bullet. THIS is why we can't stock up on good linemen and LBs in the draft. We are too busy replacing the guys we let go because we are cheap and dumb!!!! Sorry but one last shot at the LT situation. Ask yourself this question: 1st pick #9 overall in the draft (rookie LT) + $8 million/yr >= Pro Bowl LT $10 million/yr ? You can only pay attention to the money like Mr Wilson does...OR... you can see that high 1st round draft picks are precious and can get you additional help at another position instead of continually back filling the guys you were too cheap to pay.

I saw the comments that Jerry Jones supposedly made about Gailey. I hope Jerry was right. I will find a way to be optimistic as I always do even when I nearly broke a TV when I heard Jauron was going to be our coach 4 years ago. I was pissed as hell, depressed but somehow I talked myself into being positive about the situation. I'll probably do the same and find some good things about Gailey. Truth be told I would have preferred the new blood of Frazier coming with a 100% recommendation from Tony Dungy. Tony is a class act and wouldn't risk his reputation or integrity backing Frazier simply because he is black. I think Frazier will become a respected, serviceable if not overwhelmingly successful head coach in this league. Yes, Buddy Nix and Ralph have said they wanted a HC with experience at the NFL level, blah blah blah. I think they were really talking about guys like Cower and Shannahan. We exhausted our first tier options. At that point you reevaluate and you go the route of a washed up has been that was perhaps given a raw deal in Dallas OR you get the #1 up and coming coordinator for HC candidate with the endorsement of Dungy. Right now I think Billick would have been a much better choice over this guy. Now that we have a dime a dozen offensive minded coach, one of my problems is this... WHO DO WE GET FOR A DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR??? There seem to be a bunch of guys with OC experience out there. With Fewell gone who do we get to run the defense? Seriously.....who?

...be careful what you wish for. In the off seasons somehow I find a way to turn terrible news into hope for the future and a positive outcome. I will probably do the same here. I for one was actually in favor of the Leslie Frazier idea. I would rather have had that up and coming guy instead of an old retread. Some of the less than informed found all manner or ways to try to run down Frazier. Hope you're happy with Gailey!

I hear ya. What team would be dumb enough to get rid of a good LT?

WRONG!!! It's not everything but to me it's like a prerequisite for a great QB. People constantly bring up that Tom Brady, although not weak, doesn't have the strongest arm. People, he is the exception not the rule. Let's not forget that! We keep wasting our time on weak armed QBs that other teams pass on. It's no guarantee. JP had a huge arm and great mobility which made it worth taking a shot on him but obviously he didn't have what else was needed between the ears. I want the next guy we take a chance on to have a big arm. A guy that can play in wind and weather and make those down field throws to take advantage of Evans and TO or whoever his replacement will be. Whoever this next guy is, he needs to have some balls and something between the ears to take advantage of his physical gift. If we had big slow 15 yard or shorter route WR then perhaps you go with a weak arm dink and dunk guy. If you have decent sized speedsters or guys that can get behind the coverage you get a QB that can take advantage of that and throw the ball deep. If a QB candidate doesn't have an arm, don't bother.

Difference of opinion I guess. I'm not saying Poz is bad. In my opinion he went from invisible to good role player by the second half of the year. The comparison to Fletcher however is the main point. Poz is less durable and doesn't appear to my eyes to be an upgrade over Fletcher. If anything he is a downgrade because Fletcher always made more tackles. Wasting a 2nd round pick on a guy that doesn't upgrade a position is a waste of resources. It's not nearly as bad our CB situation though. For 8 years out of the last 20 we have made our first pick a guy to play in the secondary. That is 40%!!!!!!! To extend it beyond the first round, lets not forget the Jarius Byrd (STAR), Ko Simpson, Ashton Youbouty 2nd and 3rd picks we have used as well. Replacing veterans with newly drafted youth that you have to pay the same amount but don't produce any better results is something of a waste in my opinion. If we can't trade Donte for anything sign him to a contract commensurate with his performance and spend your draft picks elsewhere.

Sorry to bash on Poz because he seems like a decent guy but I think we screwed the pooch on him in typical Bills fashion. London Fletcher is still plugging away in Washington and getting the job done. We spent a 2nd round pick on Poz and what exactly have we gotten? A guy that for 3 years can't play a full season and popular support aside is just a good role player. How was this an upgrade from Fletcher? We could have used that second round pick on something we needed like an offensive or defensive linemen.

I don't know man. I figure give the guy a chance. He QUITE literally can't do any worse! He's a young guy who is ready to step into this role and make a name for himself....Well...compared to Ralphie he's young...LOL. Sorry had to throw that in there. There has been some good press about the guy and he has been involved with some organizations that have made some good choices on talent which is a reflection of the competency of the scouting staff. Like all Bills fans we want the best guy out there but REALLY....if not Buddy Nix...then who? Do you have a candidate that is actually looking for a job and would come to Buffalo that is better than Nix? I haven't expended many brain cells over it but I can't think of anyone else that would come with a better pedigree and is actually looking for a job.

I can see why he would say that. I live in Rochester so I don't know that I have ever heard Howard Simon. He sounds pretty much dead on though. Not just the accent but even his delivery and tone.