PDaDdy

I wasn't aware of this. Was the cowboys line nearly as bad as our's is now? What quality offensive lineman did they get after they got Aikman to dramatically raise their talent level?

Your INABILITY to understand my point does not make it dumb. Your inability to understand my well explained point that includes factual data and plausible explanation and interpretation of that data makes..... You say that 12 other teams had fewer pass attempts against them compared to the Bills. That is factual. Hooray for you! What point are you trying to make by stating that fact? There were 19 that had more. My point by saying that would be to say that the Bills were on the cusp of being in the worst 3rd or the top of the middle 3rd in fewest pass attempts. To clear things up...where did I state that completion percentage and QB rating were linked to pass attempts? Apparently there is a reading comprehension issue here. WHAT I SAID: 1) Teams didn't need to pass against us because our run defense was 2nd worst in the league in attempts and yds/per. 2) QB rating and interceptions were in large part due to Jarius Byrd. He is part of the defense which made them good at that. 3) I asserted that the Bills' pass defense looked better than it was because teams didn't have to pass against us 4) I asserted that teams were not afraid to throw the ball against us WHAT I DID NOT SAY: 1) The Bills pass defense stunk Please "slice it" for me a few ways to illustrate how I am wrong as opposed to taking the childish "your point is dumb stupid head" approach.

"flat out wrong" is flat out wrong. I never said we were bad against the pass. I never said we were below average against the pass. What I was asserting was that because teams could run over us like small children playing in the street, our pass defense statistically looked better than it was. Let's also be honest, Jarius Byrd was a huge HUGE part of the reason why opposing QBs got intercepted which lead to poor QB ratings. That is something our defense WAS good at. Since you have an axe to grind about lack of respect for the secondary, credit where credit is due. That being said I don't think opposing teams were shaking in their boots and ran because they were afraid to pass against us. They ran because it was an extremely easy, low risk recipe for success. Again, my statement was to say that our defense looked better because teams didn't have to pass. That is a fair and accurate statement. If you disagree with that....you are flat out wrong.

Perhaps for the same reason why the Bills defense was decently ranked against the pass. It's not because we were great at defending the pass. It's because we stunk defending the run. Teams didn't need to put the ball in the air much. Our defense was #13 in passing attempts per game #2 in yards per attempt. Despite those figures I don't think anyone would say they were afraid the throw against us. The numbers that really matter are 31st in attempts to game and 31st in yards/attempt. This drives home the point that teams didn't need to pass against us and could basically take the week off from game planning and just run the damn thing against us. So Indy is a GREAT and I mean a GREAT passing offense. They don't need to run the ball. Basically in my opinion they only ran the ball enough to occasionally be able to sell play action. This is evidenced by Indy having the second fewest rushing attempts in the NFL at 22.9/game. Who was the worst at rushing attempts? Arizona at 22.8/game. Coincidence that Arizona was also amazing at the pass? I think not. In the modern NFL game it is a pass first league. Teams with great QBs are basically embracing this trend. This doesn't mean the line can't run block. It means that the offense is better at passing and they don't need to run the ball nearly as much as some other teams. See the difference? Hope this helps.

Check nfl.com. I know it's a lot of yin and yang and good line play is complementary to good QB play and visa versa but: Colts #1 ranked offensive line Saints #4 ranked offensive line Manning and Brees can't be Manning and Brees without those guys up front giving them the time and peace of mind to do their thing. Without those QBs, those lines are still easily top 10 in the NFL...with them they are #1 and #4 respectively. You can't get around it. You can't take one of those guys, put them on our team and suddenly we have a top 10 quality line. NOT A CHANCE!

I agree 99%. I don't know if Fitz and Brohm could suddenly magically morph into franchise QBs but a good line and some inventive play calling could make them look pretty damn good. I'm thinking Kyle Orton good in Denver. Not a great QB but put him in a better system with a good line and ta da...he becomes an asset not a liability. Oh and ..."Quaid....use the machine!!!"

Everyone who knows anything about the NFL knows that teams with QBs lying on their backs can't complete passes. What good is a promising rookie QB when you don't have a line that can keep him on his feet for longer than 2 sec? People keep focusing on LT vs rookie QB in the draft as it applies to the passing game. Here is a news flash folks, a promising rookie LT makes your passing game AND your running game better. NOW...some of you smart alecs will say that a good QB can make the running game better. Yes, they can. Tell me one rookie QB that has actually accomplished this feet? I 100% agree we need a MUCH better QB. I just don't think we need to use our first round pick this year on one. Bradford doesn't have the arm and I don't think Claussen will be there for us at #9. If Clausen was there at #9 I can see the attraction. Unfortunately we need a solid foundation on the offensive line before we get fancy with taking a shot at a QB prospect. If we were a decent team and had a competent O-line ...sure...get him. Unfortunately due to injury and youth our line SUCKED! Many say lets get the QB on our roster now and let him sit for a year or two while we get an o-line together. Let's be honest people. There is NO WAY that that would happen. Fans would be screaming for him to start by week 3. If we throw any rookie QB to the wolves with our line, it will ruin him forever. LT is the better if not glamorous choice for this year. It will help the passing game AND the run game NOW. Let's say some prayers and hope that Bulaga doesn't race up the draft boards after the combine. I think he is the guy to get if we are lucky enough.

I don't know man. McNabb looked pretty good throwing that deep ball to Deshaun Jackson. Man would McNabb to Evans be sweet.

ARRRGHHHHH!!! Kill me now! Well..at least Culpepper has an arm. lol

I have seen some of the guys game film. He looks good. No doubt. I have also heard he helped himself in the practices and the senior bowl. I haven't seen enough in the arm department to make me think he has what it takes. I still contend Losman had one of the BEST deep balls in the game. Why would he throw bombs to Lee unless he beat coverage? That is what a QB is supposed to do. Brees is one of the best so he is not a good example for setting the standard for accurate deep balls. He is one of the best ever perhaps. We put up more points with Losman too. His problem was his head and skipping swing passes to the RB off the ground. The ONLY thing he did well were the various deep balls, well and running around like a chicken with his head cut off. But hey, sometimes he got first downs.

Dude the modern game involves the spread offense, more passing and such. CHICKS DIG THE LONG BALL!...lol.....seriously..we need a big arm QB. I have no illusions about how often or little the deep ball is thrown. The point and I mean the HUGE point is the fear of the deep ball. It opens up defenses like you wouldn't believe. The deep post, the deep cross, the deep out. Opposing defenses KNOW if you can't hit those kind of plays or run those types of routes and they can pack it in on you. THEN you have the Buffalo Bills offense with Trent Edwards. Look at all of the successful QBs out there right now. They are throwing 40+ in the air a few times a game. Not talking RAC here. IN THE AIR! You don't have to hit on every one. Just the attempt can sometimes be enough. OH....and old school football is smash mouth kid!

Was named Ravens starter got freak tonsillitis lost 20 lbs Flacco a first round rookie HAD to start Ravens won a few games Didn't upset the apple cart That sum it up for you?

So basically many people here know full well and realize the fact that pretty much all of our successful QBs in Buffalo had a big arm. Tell us again why people keep wanting to take a chance on mediocre to noodle arm QBs? Why do they constantly try to find exceptions to this rule and site other QBs like Montana and Brady. They are not the norm. Having a big arm is ABSOLUTELY no guarantee of success. NOT having a big arm is pretty much a guarantee for failure.

He was drafted in 2007 his rookie year and was slated as the starter in 2008 one year later. How was this an inability to crack the starting lineup for a 5th round QB? In fact I think that qualifies as a meteoric rise up the depth chart. People forget that the only reason Flacco got the starting job was due to a freak rare form of tonsillitis that hit Troy Smith just before the start of the 2008 regular season. Took Smith too long to get healthy and gain back the 20lbs or so he lost. By then the Ravens had won a few games and they didn't want to upset the apple cart.

QUOTE (bfw1234 @ Feb 1 2010, 01:20 PM) * I can't stand the mobility b.s. was Kelly mobile? Are the Mannings mobile? Kurt Warner? Brady? Marino? Rivers? etc!! Vick = gimmick & fail build a line & develop a play-action pass, PLEASE! How does Vince Young that took an 0 - 6 team and went 8 - 2 look as a BS mobile QB? As I said earlier in this thread mobility is an added bonus. If you have enough of it it actually changes the way a defense plays your offense. Vince Young is as dumb as a box of rocks but he wins games in a non traditional way. You old schoolers don't get that there is more than one way to skin a cat in todays nfl. If I had my choice I would take a pocket QB that takes advantage of his mobility when appropriate not bases their whole game on it. That being said, I do understand that with the advent of the spread and wild cat formations in the pros there is more than one way to get it done.

How was the PR nightmare he created in Philly? Oh ...right...there wasn't one.

Drew Bledsoe had a big arm as did Rob Johnson before him. Even Doug Flutie had a gun on him. I guess my question would be who is the last less than strong armed QB who got us to the play offs. We have to go back before Jim Kelly to answer that one. That is too far back for me to really gauge arm strength. Whoever will bring us success will have to have a brain and some balls as well as the big arm price of admission. Mobility is a huge added bonus if they have that as well.

If we were going to do it I would hope we didn't have to give up a 3rd but I'm fine with it. If we got Troy Smith for a 5th round pick we should be arrested for stealing from the Ravens. LOL. The thing that may help drive down the draft pick compensation for Troy is that I think he was only a 5th round pick. I was kind of upset we didn't draft the guy in 2007. Instead we blew a 3rd rd pick on Trentative Edwards.

There has been some debate about what kind of draft compensation fans would be willing to give up for Troy Smith. I think there are really only 2 things to consider. The player's age and the quality of the rookie you would draft at his position if you kept the pick. Troy Smith is 25 years old which makes him young enough that age almost isn't an issue. In fact a QB at 25 years old QB is a more attractive option to me compared to a 22 year old. You have gone through something of a maturation process and have grown as a person and a man. Talent wise there is no question that Troy would be light years beyond any 3rd round pick QB we could get. That's what I think about. If we can do it for less, by all means get a bargain. If Baltimore was taking a hard line and it cost me a 3rd round pick to get Troy Smith I don't know that I would even blink an eye before I pulled the trigger on that deal.

LeFevour looks good except for the arm strength. Unless something changed this guy does not have the arm I am looking for. He seems to do a lot of nice things but no arm. Honestly I only looked at highlights of the guy but those are supposed to be his best plays. I saw no bullet passes that got there in a hurry with no arc and the longest balls I saw him throw were at best 40yd rainbows. A big arm isn't everything in the NFL. I think we ALL know this. For me, it's the price of admission for a franchise QB in Buffalo. At the bare minimum the guy needs a big arm to walk in the door. If you don't have it, don't bother sending me your resume.

Limiting the conversation to UFAs and RFAs I think Troy Smith is really our best option. The guy has been ready to start since 2008.

http://www.av1611.org/rock/ozzy.html This is not some secret news about Ozzy. How can you NOT have heard of this? Why weren't people screaming for Ozzy to quit his job as a rocker and boycotting his TV show and albums. Hope you like to eat bull **** sandwiches. Here is your link buddy. I'm surprised you even need a link as it would seem you are in the camp of people that scrutinizes celebrities and athletes. How do you know so much about Vick and no nothing of Ozzy's history?? What I am trying to point out is the hypocrisy that people exhibit when it comes to professional athletes. Ozzy Rules!....but Mike Vick is a scumbag!

Guy... there is a middle ground Mr Extremist. Extremists rarely are able to make "sense" out of logic. Mike Vick to my knowledge has only been convicted of dog fighting crimes. I'm not sure how that makes him a habitual criminal but then again you all or nothing extremists see no middle ground. Support is a strong word. Tolerate some bad person and legal choices the man made? Lost every penny he had along with his self respect and reputation? Did his time and paid his debt to society and actively is trying to make up for his mistakes?....Tolerate? yes....support....Not there yet.

Lee Evans? Bad Attitude? Are you kidding? There is ABSOLUTELY no supported evidence of Lee Evans having a bad attitude.

What rookie top 9 pick QBs in the last 10 years haven't started by the end of the season? ALSO...tell me what QB they were sitting behind. Buffalo's situation is such that any rookie WILL START. You don't commit those kind of resources in the way of the #9 draft pick, guaranteed money and salary and NOT start him. It's not like we have Drew Brees that he can sit behind for a year or two.