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I think 1 and 3 for sure show that it isn't all Daboll and I would even put 5 in there. At the pro level you shouldn't need coaching to avoid penalties. For a team that preaches accountability Lee Smith continuing to get PT is a head scratcher. I agree with you about 2 but that goes to my point that the QB is what drives people's opinions about a team. Have a good one and people think you can win any game. #4 for me is certainly on play calling but I have seen elsewhere that the Browns stacked the box and forced Josh to beat them with his arm and he couldn't. Now some of that is drops, some of that is lack of talent, and some of that is play calling. He tested Denzel Ward a ton for some reason and he is their best cb. I would have loved to see them pound the rock but Gore is showing his age. I don't know why they are handling Singletary the way they are. He should be the starting rb and get runs early and often, that we agree on. If I am going to question the coordinator Singletary's lack of pt and Lee Smith's amount of pt are the 2 places I am most sore about! Bills added talent but they still are not one of the more talented teams. That is the biggest problem with this team imo. Apparently last week talent trumped culture . The phrase he took that from is hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. When talent works hard they are unstoppable and that's what the offense needs. Not just process guys but tops of the league talent process guys. Tre White is a great example of that and the Bills need more of that imo.

No the 4 teams you mentioned (KC, Seattle, GB, and NO) all have elite play at the QB position. The Bills don't have that (yet). QBs are sexy and teams with those qbs will always be favored or thought higher of because of it. I really don't think Daboll's play calling is as bad as people think. I think the execution is poor. I think Frank Gore is washed so not getting Singletary more involved is a sore spot for me. However I think the Bills need a #1 WR to bump everyone down a spot. John Brown has played great and exceeded my expectations outside of him though there are no threats at the position. Beasley is a dink and dunk guy, there is no "big WR", and they need to improve their RB room. I keep going back to the Bills have no game breakers. The Browns have OBJ, Landry, Hunt, and Chubb at the skill position who are all better than their Bills counterpart. Eagles got Wentz Alshon Jeffery and spent a first on wr (agholor), Rams got Goff Cooks and Robert Woods, KC has an obscene plethora of weapons for Mahomes. The Bills need to get Josh some talent to take some of the pressure off of him. They need to get Daboll some better talent to work with. Hopefully this off season those things happen. On a side note if Daboll is fired I will be hoping and praying for Jay Gruden but fear we will see Ken Whisenhunt.

They have crappier defenses but better offenses. I opined this in another thread but it is because winning with defense is not sexy that people think the Bills are bad. The Bills have a very good defense and as the numbers show a below average offense. I was just talking yesterday that if the Bills scored 21 points in each game they would only have 1 loss. That is what they need to improve on and it really isn't that far from where they are now. It works out to be an extra field goal per game. They haven't arrived yet but they are not as far away as some people think. I don't know if this is the place for it but the defense isn't getting enough love imo. Last year they were the #2 defense by yards but people were mad that they were 18th in ppg against and that was the stat that really mattered. Now they are 21st in rush defense and 3rd in ppg against and people are still blaming them for the loss against Cleveland. In my mind if the offense doesn't score 24 they aren't doing their jobs. If the defense gives up more than 21 they aren't doing theirs. Are we still doing heat maps? Win against Jets - Defense Win against Giants - Team Win against Bengals - Defense Loss against Patriots - Offense Win against Titans - Defense Win against Fins - Team Loss against the Eagles - Team Win against Redskins - Team Loss against Browns - Offense So I have the defense responsible for 3 wins on their own, 4 more games where they did their job, and 1 game they didn't The Offense I have responsible for 0 wins on their own, 2 losses on their own, 4 games where they did their job. Defensively we are a 7-1 team. Offensively we are a 4-4 team. Sounds about right to me.

I heard a stat the 7 times a team with .750 win percentage has been a dog to a team with a .250 win precentage and the .250 team has covered every time. Now I'm even more nervous about this game lol. The Bills always seem to be the team to fix whatever ails a team when they are struggling. Hopefully that is a thing of the past!

Strange you skipped over quoting all of the socialist programs that already exist in the US. To your bolded Currently, the Nordic countries have been described as being highly democratic. Although there are significant differences among the Nordic countries, they all have some common traits. These include support for a universalist welfare state aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy and promoting social mobility; a corporatist system involving a tripartite arrangement where representatives of labour and employers negotiate wages and labour market policy mediated by the government;[8] and a commitment to private ownership (with some caveats), a mixed economy[9] and free trade.[10] The Social-Democratic welfare state model is based on the principle of Universalism, granting access to benefits and services based on citizenship. Such a welfare state is said to provide a relatively high degree of citizen autonomy, limiting reliance on family and market.[91]:584 In this context, social policies are perceived as "politics against the market".[93] Social Democratic: Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Norway and Sweden links: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state# https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model Social Democrat. Hmmm where have I heard that before...

Roseanne Barr supports Donald Trump. She of the racist ambien tweeting. Mike Tyson the convicted rapist supports Donald Trump Ted Nugent and his subhuman mongrel quote support Donald Trump. Tila Tequila and her craziness supports Donald Trump. None of it means jack!

So you won't be taking medicarewhen you come of age right? That is socialist programs! We should do away with farming subsidies. Those are socialist!!! Hope you or a loved one are never permanently disabled. That's a socialist program! I thought it was only dems that were afraid of the commies? America isn't looking at full socialism. With all the examples of failing countries why aren't Norway, Sweden, or Denmark mentioned? They combine socialism and capitalism and are thriving. I posted upthread about how 8 of the top 10 gdp countries have socialized medicine. Somehow they all make it work but it is the end of the US if we implement it. It isn't a bad thing to help out your fellow Americans especially when almost every would benefit from it themselves as well. I would much rather have my tax dollars go to healthcare than never ending conflicts. "We have spent $7 trillion, trillion with a T, $7 trillion in the Middle East." — Donald Trump on Saturday, April 28th, 2018 in a speech in Washington, Mich.

I had a thought so I did some digging. Top 6 teams in AFC are Patriots, Ravens, Chiefs, Bills, Colts. The Patriots, Chiefs, Texans, and Bills don't have a "bad loss" between them losing only to teams with winning records. The Chiefs (will be the first to admit they are much different with Mahomes) and Patriots were thought of as the cream of the crop in the conference and I think that thought still stands. Any way you slice it this is a good group to be in. The Ravens have lost to the 2-6 Browns and the Colts have struggled with bad teams before ultimately winning (sound familiar) as well losing to the 4-5 Chargers. Top 6 teams in the NFC are Niners, Saints, Packers, Cowboys, Seahawks, and Vikings. Niners, Saints, and Seahawks don't have a bad loss. The Packers lost to the 4-5 Chargers, Cowboys to the 1-7 Jets, and Vikings to the 3-5 Bears. What does all this mean? Absolutely nothing. However if we polled our resident "realists" I would bet they would say that the Packers, Cowboys, Ravens, and Colts were all better teams than the Bills. That may be true (I for one think heads up the Packers and Ravens are better). However all of those teams I listed have shown that they can be beat even by middling if not bad teams.

I think we are actually a lot closer than you think in what we believe. to the bolded my point is that it is any given week. Any team can beat any team. That is what I was pointing out. For as good as the Seahawks look they had the exact struggle we did against the 0-8 Bengals. As Micah Hyde said they shouldn't apologize for winning ugly. I think fans only consider it ugly because it is the defense leading the way instead of the offense. The 7-2 Seahawks have a point differential of +18 they have played a lot of close games too. They have a better offense but a worse defense that is just how the NFL works. To the second bolded I absolutely agree. I thought at the start of the year and still think they are a few pieces away from truly being championship caliber. They need a #1 WR that is a dominant force and a better pash rush. They are still on the rise but that is my point they are on the rise. I'm enjoying the ride because every Monday after a win is a little bit brighter. I like the progress of Josh Allen, like the culture McDermott is building, and like that they are 6-2. If the wheels fall off I'll be disappointed and re-evaluate my opinions then. I'm not going to not enjoy what is happening now waiting for that to happen though. I read in this very thread that every team is on equal footing when it comes to getting FA. I agree with you though and think that the Bills will be targeting WR in the draft as it is a very deep position. There is a lot of talent and depth at the position and a clear hole in the Bills offense. I think every year every team has a hole somewhere and the era of complete teams is over. Even the Patriots have struggled with run defense because their pass d is so amazing. They have an issue with their offensive line and Brady is having an off year because of it but that has more to do with injury. They are beatable and the Bills played them very close. To me this isn't like years past where it is an automatic loss.

That is my point. Imagine not having to make concessions on your wage or your working conditions (the bigger wow to me) to get health care coverage that almost every other developed nation offers to their citizens. Taking it back to trickle down economic theory (remember this is why we do corporate tax cuts) the less employers have to pay for insuring their employees the more they can pay them in salary correct? The total cost of health care, including premiums and out-of-pocket costs for employees and dependents, is estimated to average $14,800 per employee in 2019, up from $14,099 this year. Large employers will cover roughly 70 percent of those costs, leaving $4,400 on average for employees to pick up in premium contributions and out-of-pocket expenses. So here is some fun with math: Employers could give each employee a $10,000 a year raise and still come out $400 ahead on each employee. Average wage in the US is $47,060 - $4400 equals $42660 pre tax income NYS tax (single person) on $42660 is $1881. Federal tax (at 8.11%) is approx $3461, social security tax is approx $2645 (gasp a socialist tax!) medicare tax (socialist!) approx 618. Take home wage is approx $34054 and you are responsible for co-pays, prescriptions, etc... If you received a $5000 raise since your employer no longer had to foot insurance costs they would come out $5400 on each employee on average I'll spare you the math but bring home on is approx $40,973 (8.89% federal tax) if your federal tax was raised to say 20% your bring home is approx $35,188 and your medical costs are minimal to nonexistent. Here is the tax calculator I used if you are so inclined When you avoid the talking points and look at the hard data it is easy to see how this should be in place. I raised everyone's taxes by 11.89% and they still came out ahead. Think about that, I more than doubled the federal tax rate and both employees and companies still come out ahead.

This is behind a paywall. So I did a little digging on the Kaiser poll and here is what I found: That seems to be the case across parties. Overall, 71 percent of Democrats, 51 percent of independents, and 28 percent of Republicans favor “Medicare for All,” according to Kaiser. But support is down across all three, while opposition is up. It’s a little tricky to read the trends, because Kaiser’s polling results have a pretty high margin of error when broken down by party (6 percent in the latest survey). Pure partisanship has probably kicked in a bit as well; as the primary campaign has worn on, Republicans and Republican-leaning independents may have come to associate the idea with Democratic candidates, leading them to reject it. I find it funny that Americans are still favoring according to this and they want to say people don't want it. I will admit 51% is certainly within the margin for error but you shouldn't pretend this is a wildly unpopular idea. Repubs love the idea of trickle down economics, universal health care would erase one of the largest costs to employers and they could pass the savings down to their employees right? This line sticks out to me from you article: employees have compromised on wages and working conditions in return for more-generous health-insurance benefits Imagine not having to compromise on working conditions to get health care! That is an argument against. It amazes me what people will buy to go against their own self interests.

I don't want my post to be misconstrued as the Bills are perfect and beyond reproach. For me at least Josh's fumbles are concerning as well as his deep ball accuracy. 3rd Quarter performance from the offense leaves a lot to be desired as well among other concerns. That being said at the end of the day they are 6-2. The rush defense is certainly a concern but even with the last 3 games they still are giving up the 3rd least yards per game total and are 19th against the rush. Among "Super Bowl Contenders" they are better than the Chiefs and Packers. Some of these teams have better run defenses because they are so porous against the pass (Raiders, Texans, TB, Jets) or are out to such big leads that teams abandon the run (Saints, Patriots, Niners, Ravens, Texans). The Bills certainly have a harder schedule coming up and those are some good names at RB but so are Saquon Barkley, Le'veon Bell, Joe Mixon, and Derek Henry whom they have already faced. There is criticism to dish out but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that perfect teams in the NFL don't exist. That is all I wanted to point out in the op. Discussion is good but it seems really weird around here with all the doom and gloom when we are 6-2. I've been a fan for more than 30 years (wow) so I have eaten my fair share of razor cakes. I'm gonna enjoy this ride as I do every year. If the bottom falls out it falls out hopefully it doesn't but each Monday after a victory I don't want to come to my favorite website and see pissing and moaning about how they should have won by more. Discussion is always welcome, whining entitled posts get my goat, that is what inspired this post.

Green Bay rarely if ever signs FA. I don't really see how you are touting them as a destination. I don't disagree that the Bills are fighting a reputation they earned but doesn't that also mean that the Pegula run Bills aren't on a level playing field due to the Wilson run Bills? On to the next paragraph, the expectation is super bowl or bust and you list Matt Schaub, Russel Wilson, Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garropolo, Jacoby Brissett and Dak Prescott as the players they missed out on. All of those players combined have 1 super bowl win and 2 super bowl visits. Both by Wilson. I just looked up the stats and outside of Wilson the rest of the list looks like this: Matt Schaub 1 playoff win in 16 years in 3 total playoff games started Teddy B 0 playoff wins in 1 game started in playoffs Derek Carr 0 and 0 Jimmy Garropolo 0 and 0 Jacoby Brissett 0 and 0 Dak Prescott 1 in 3 total games So really none of the players you listed would make you happy either since they haven't done anything worth celebrating. This goes back to my point of people not realizing what else goes on in the NFL across the league. We are fans if you aren't going to be excited when things are going well what is the point? Here is your other post: I am happy with a 6-2 record. Are you saying that the only way we should enjoy this is if they were 8-0? They can't win the super bowl in November only lose their opportunity to compete for it. I showed in the op that every single team has warts and struggles when you might not expect it. They are tied for the second best record in the conference and are 1 game out of the division/conference lead. Expect more? Why? I have literally zero control over what happens. I'm happy they are 6-2. It would have been nice to beat the Eagles or Patriots but they didn't and as I showed in OP this is a week to week league where no win is guaranteed. Even against an 0-8 team. This team certainly has flaws and they are worth discussing. The doom and gloom about not blowing these teams out though is a bit much for me. As you yourself said they have been bad for 20 years why would you deprive yourself of the enjoyment of 6-2. You don't have to enjoy the ride I certainly won't argue that with you as you can feel however you want. I will though Go Bills!!!

It will also be over. 1 team each year gets to raise that banner. I won't miss out on enjoying the wins to worry about what comes next. I can't control any of this. So I will take what enjoyment I can out of each win and each week. The Bills are still missing game changers on offense and they won't, at least in my mind, be a consistent contender until they get those pieces. I will still enjoy the ride this year. I disagree with your 32 teams have a chance to win the super bowl as well. Buffalo is not and probably never will be a fa destination. They are also a small market team. Remember when Gillmore left and said now my family can watch me? Remember when Antonio Brown refused to come to Buffalo (blessing in disguise)? New England gets players to take discounts for a chance at winning. Some cities are more attractive than others and some franchises are more attractive than others. In the AFC Big Ben, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady account for every super bowl visit from the AFC with the exception of 1 lone Joe Flacco year going back to 2003. Think about that 15 of the last 16 super bowl participants are because the teams had all time great qbs.

I just can't get enough NFL football. I watch games that I shouldn't just to get my fix. I don't care how bad the TNF matchup is or how bad Booger is (I actually don't mind him terribly), I am still watching. Probably has to do with fantasy football but I'm watching a game whenever it is offered. Yeah but your takes are measured good and bad. You aren't out here saying we need to 300 yards passing no matter what. Constructive conversation (which you provide) is always welcome. It seems like many on the board want to focus too much on the negative without realizing they are doing what it takes to win each individual game compiling stats be damned. Would you believe that the Bills are within 60 ypg of the 3rd best offense. That seems like a lot but the Bills aren't built that way. In fact surprisingly to me the Bills only average 30 less ypg than the Patriots. The Cowboys far and away average the most yards per game and they dropped one to the Jets! The Falcons have the best passing offense in the NFL and they are 1-7!

It really is incredible when you look around the NFL. Here is some more did you knows: The Bills old man rushing attack currently is the 11th ranked rushing attack. The Bills score more points per game than the Minshew mania led Jaguars and the OBJ/Landry/Mayfield/Chubb Browns. The Bills have more passing tds than super rookie sensation Kyler Murray's Cardinals. The Bills are 1 of 3 teams giving up less than 300 ypg on defense, less than 200 yards passing per game, and less than 17 ppg. The Patriots and Niners are the other 2 teams that accomplish that feat.

So much doom and gloom for a 6-2 team. Enjoy it. It has been 25 freaking years. I watch a lot of other games. Too many. I then watch highlights of the games I miss during midnight feedings. So I wanted to put some things in one thread game by game to show you that you can actually enjoy the success. The Bills only beat the Jets 17-16. Can you believe that? If they were good like say the Cowboys they wouldn't have needed a 4th quarter come back to win. Oh wait the Jets beat the Cowboys. The Giants game was as complete a game as they played and dominated this one. If you complained about this one you are a terrible person and you should feel bad. The Bills needed a 4th quarter comeback at home to beat the sad sack Bengals. If they were good like Seahawks that would never happen! Oh wait Russel Wilson did just that and even landed on 21 points same as the Bills. They can't hang with the Patriots! Oh wait they held the Patriots to their lowest point total of the season? Wait they played the closest game save for the Ravens winning of any team in the NFL? The Bills offense is terrible if only they had a real qb like Matt Ryan they would have scored more than 14 points. Oh wait the Falcons only scored 10 points against the Titans? Can you believe the Bills only won by 10 against the Lolphins and were only up 3 late. If only they were good like the Eagles they wouldn't struggle with these sad sack teams. Oh wait the Eagles lost to the 1-7 Falcons? Speaking of the Eagles, can you believe they ran for so many yards and put up 31 points against this defense? If only they were as good as the Packers that would never happen. Oh wait the Packers gave up 34 points and 176 rushing yards? If they were a great defense like say the Patriots they would never give up over 200 yards rushing. Oh wait that just happened to the Patriots? Can you believe the Bills were only up 1 score in the 4th quarter agains the Redskins? No I don't care that they won by 2 tds that isn't good enough. If only they were as good as the 49ers they would have beat the doors off of them. Oh wait they only won by 9? How about if they were as hot as the Vikings? oh wait they only won by 10? point of this thread? A win is a win. Every team is talented in the NFL stacking ws is all that matters. Stop trying to poo poo everything and realize that each game is a struggle no matter who you are. The Patriots just lost by 17 to the same Ravens team that lost by 15 to the Browns who lost by 14 to the Patriots. There is no need for the Bills to apologize for the schedule. The Bills are 6-2. The freaking Buffalo Bills are 6-2. It is November 5th and not only are they still in contention, they are 1 loss outside of the division lead and tied for the 2nd best record in the conference. Watch some other teams and realize none of them are perfect either. Go Bills!!!

Strange I don't recall either of them being socialists. Medicare for all is a socialist program no denying it but supporting it doesn't make you a socialist. Farming subsidies are a socialist program. Do we now hate all those farmers for benefiting from a socialist program? Or does supporting it make us socialists? 182 Republicans supported $867 million in farmers aid just in December. Should we stop subsidizing middle america (my answer is no obviously)? There are so many "socialist" programs already in place. Medicare, Social Security, SNAP, etc.. Interesting choice in Venezuela too when almost the entire world has some sort of free or universal health care. In fact 8 of the top 10 GDP countries in the world have some sort of universal health care.   It works for the rest of the world but somehow the US can't figure it out. Taxes go up!!! That is the republican talking point. Don't pay attention to the fact that you no longer have insurance premiums, co-pays, or prescription costs and in many cases people will save money. Don't pay attention to the fact that your health care is tied to your employer and losing your job means you don't have insurance any longer. A couple of weeks ago there was a post about if lefties read opposing view points. I do, and I want to supply one to challenge all anti-universal health care people to read and reflect on this. https://pnhp.org/take-action/reaching-out-to-conservatives/ it addresses a lot of the talking points and dispels a lot of myths. Medicare for all makes so much sense I am surprised when I see people against it.

Thank you! I watched it a couple of times because I thought that was what I saw on the first watch. He sped up at the end and that led to the ball being under thrown. Allen didn't look good to me on Sunday but that one was on Foster imo.

To the bolded: It sure seemed like they started to believe some of the press with Hyde's we are the 85 Bears talk. My BBFS is in full swing. The offense hasn't looked good really all year save for maybe the Giants game and the defense just got beat down on their home field. I know Allen has good 4th quarter stats but he really needs to take care of the ball. The Bills are missing a game breaker on offense. They have nobody who can take over the game and wreck an opponents game plan. At the start of the year I was of the belief that they still have one more year of building and I am circling back around to that thinking. Still waiting for that game where the offense doesn't need the defense to bail them out. Hopefully we see it this weekend! Hope I don't derail the thread because I enjoy looking at what needs to happen but for the first time in forever the Bills just need to win. They don't need help from other teams they just need to handle their own business. Here's hoping!

Straw man on an incredible level. Nobody thinks it is okay to flash children. Nobody is saying you are a bigot for not approving of drag queens flashing children. All this does is create an imaginary liberal boogeyman. I googled this story to see if there was any follow up. There is no information about whether or not they were arrested, their real names, or any other information. Seems strange to me that there wouldn't be any of that information. Would anyone really be surprised if that information was purposely kept out so we couldn't research ourselves if they were arrested or what the fall out was? This seems like the exact kind of fake news you would rail against @Deranged Rhino.

Found it there thanks!

I appreciate the response. To the bolded I am just a lurker by nature. I've been on the board in general for 10+ years and have less than 5k posts. I like to read both sides of the issues and like I said I come here for the conservative view. Maybe an echo chamber is too strong but this place really isn't kind to liberal views lol. I don't mind that as I know what I will see when I come here but as I said I like to constantly challenge my beliefs.

I've looked all over and want to send this to a friend who was bummed when the map came out. Can you post the link so I can share it with him please?