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Okay I'll eat some crow must be revisionist history on my part just looked up his playoff career and it isn't nearly what I thought. In Cowher’s 15 seasons, the Steelers captured eight division titles, earned ten postseason playoff berths, played in 21 playoff games, advanced to six AFC Championship games and made two Super Bowl appearances. He is one of only six coaches in NFL history to claim at least seven division titles.

I know we're bills fans but Marv is thought to be overrated by several of my friends (I disagree of course but am an admitted homer). 4 and 5 visits are nothing to sneeze at and that's why I think they are great coaches. 2 visits are good and I (as stated earlier) don't have issue with people saying that I just thought he could've done more with the talent he had. As to your next point I'll agree but they are a great organization from the top down. There owner is a model for all others, they draft extremely well, they have excellent coaches (lebeau being the ultimate example). Maybe my opinion of him would be different if he had big Ben longer which is where my original question came from. Tomlin is a great coach IMO and has accomplished as much if not more than Cowher in a much shorter time but had he benefit of big Ben.

He has a great record that I can't argue but it just felt like his teams underachieved. 1 super bowl and 2 trips with all of those excellent teams are a major red flag for me. The loss to the chargers in i believe 94 stands out to me. He's def in the upper tier and I have zero issue with others saying he's great. I just dont think it and am sure I'm in the minority there... Besides he coached Pittsburgh don't they all have good records? Haha (and more sb wins too)

I don't consider Cowher to be a great coach but a vastly over rated one... Much like Jeff fisher he benefited from longevity.

and people worry about hip-hop concerts lol

I agree strongly with #2 which is where this came from. Good example in Parcells. I feel that winning a super bowl doesn't make you a great coach per se (although it does help in the argument) and that coaches are more a victim of circumstance (who their qb is) more so than in most sports. I think that is why we rarely see coaches repeat their success. Not many can go to another team and have any type of success which leads me back to thinking that the qb position plays an inordinate amount in what their reputation is. what I mean (and others may interpret this differently) is that when you hear their name you think 'that is a great coach'. People's perception of that may be different but I definitely don't mean just because they won a super bowl.

I'm not talking about winning a super bowl though. I am more wondering what coaches are thought to be great. I don't think anyone thinks Gruden, Fassel, or Billick are great coaches. They certainly aren't on anyone's HOF list. Thinking more about it and I will say Ditka is the name that I can think of. His Bears won with D and he had Payton. I don't think anyone would say McMahon was a great qb. There is the Saint's debacle but I think most still consider him to be "great".

ahhh yes the grammar police. I've fixed it for you... now anything to add to the discussion?

alright I know it's not as much as the last bid but I can't believe no one has put one in yet. I'm poor right now as I'm getting married in August so I apologize if some are offended but I will start the bidding at $100. *I'll add the caveat that if this is to low send me a pm and I will remove it. Not trying to offend anyone especially for such a great cause. (I'm just poor)

The thread that won't die got me to thinking has any coach ever been considered "great" without having a great qb? Belicheck was horrible in Cleveland then a genius with NE* (and Brady). Shula was an excellent coach but had Griese and Marino. George Seifert was amazing in sf (to the tune of highest winning percentage in history) and not so much in Carolina. Even our own Marv was not thought of to be good until Kelly came along. My point and question is this can you name an NFL coach who transcended the qb position and rose above mediocrity form that position to be considered great? I can't think of one but I am sure there are a select few.

I thought it was a pretty clean game from all aspects. I was happy to see fouls called without the ref feeling like he needed to card everything. I couldn't believe Italy took the lead as Germany had been dominating up until that point. Then when the second goal went in I knew it was a wrap as Germany had a hard time taking advantage of any of there numerous opportunities. Feeling pretty good about Italy right now. They should have beaten Spain in the qualifier on top of the pressure Spain has to pull off the 3 championships feat. Can't Wait!!

Joe I agree with you about not playing for the home team. In many ways it adds much more of a burden to the athlete as the hometown pressure, your "boys", extended "family", etc.. There was a short on ESPN about dwill possibly going back to dallas and joining the mavs. Some ex-athletes were warning that it wouldn't be a good idea because the outside pressure can be to much. Cleveland is not a desireable city for a pro athlete (especially an nba player), and it was difficult to lure anyone there. If the cavs had pulled the trade for amare at midseason instead of holding onto jj hixon(!!) I think LeBron may have re-signed. He saw the writing on the wall and it was that he couldn't do it alone and he needed more players around him, which wasn't happening in Cleveland. NoSaint I agree with your premise but his options were limited in that capacity. Signing with Lakers would get a response from America like crayonz gave (and I know it was tongue in cheek but others wouldn't have been). Also the alpha male Kobe I don't think would have allowed it (added to the fact they had no cap room to make it happen). The only other legendary team in the NBA is the Celtics and they too didn't have the cap room. Add to that the fact that they had(are) his nemesis and it would have been tough for him to join up. The only team I think people wouldn't have had the blowback for is the Bulls. LeBron grew up a Jordan fan and all of the Jordan fans that had stopped watching the NBA when he retired would have been brought back. That could have been the growing up in the driveway scenario you were talking about imo. As for signing with the Heat I don't think it was a bad move. He gets to write their history books. They had 1 championship and it wasn't exactly a glory years type run. They got shaq, he had one good year, left, they won, and returned to mediocrity. This team can put together a dynasty type atmosphere where every year they will be the favorites. That said... the reason I originally came here was to talk about the draft last night. Sucks to see a couple of cuse players go to the celtics but then again I don't expect much from them. Fab is an excellent defender (when he can camp in the paint and play zone - not sure how that translates) and Joseph hasn't been the same player since that nasty spill he took 2 years ago. Waiters on the other hand is as exciting on the floor as any college player i've seen (in this years draft) and Cleveland has built themselves a nice little nucleus. I'm not big on Zeller but in the last 2 years they have gotten themselves 4 young starters. Like the lakers pick up of Johnson-Odom too. Was hoping for a Pau trade but there is still time for that - they just won't end up with kidd-gilchrist like I wanted (pipe dream I know).

No reaction to yesterday?! No go blue for today?!

So completely staged...

Bump so new era can see this

I wanted to bet this and had my uncle who lives in vegas look for these odds and he couldn't find them. IIRC you live in vegas what casino did you place this bet at? Any poster know of any casinos taking these bets? I want to lay 100 on it but cant find a spot to take it. Any help will be appreciated.

You really think this is the first team players have done this? This has gone on long before lebron and will continue long after. Your Miami and lebron hate is clear but it's clouding your arguments. Do you really say they finally won a championship?! In year 2?!?! That's finally to you?!?! Let alone the fact they made the finals last year. It's cool you hate lebron... Hate and fandom are what drives sports but I ask you to just look at him now, last year humbled him mightily. So yes he might've been a douche for the decision but he learned from his mistake. Is it really fair to bash someone 2 years later? At what time can you move on from that? He's never been in trouble with the cops, he's not an absentee dad with tons of baby mamas, and he's not a dirty player. I'm a lakers fan as I've stated before and all bc of magic Johnson. His passing and joy were what drew me to them. Lebron does a lot of the same things but I still didn't like him. Thought he wasn't clutch, thought he was a douche for the decision, hated the idea of him joining up for the big3. All of it. This years playoffs though changed everything. He was amazing from game 6 against the clerics on and carried them after they were losing against the pacers. That wasn't the change though. His quotes were; " you've got to want it as bad as your next breath" showed a level of care I hadnt seen from him. "I joined up with these guys because I realized I had to to beat the celtics" showed a humbleness not only in reflection but in making the choice to begin with. Add it all to the fact that he was a humble and gracious winner I've done a 180 on the guy.

When children are put up for adoption who gets all of the fees? The reason in asking is because I got to thinking maybe she was just trying to cut out the realtor. You know for sale by owner instead of adoption agency. This post is madely firmly tongue in cheek but I think it is an interesting discussion none the less. Any legal experts willing to weigh in and explain the differences? I would imagine agencies do back ground checks on potential adopters but what is to stop a mother from doing the same thing with the same steps taken? Is it an accreditation issue? Is there any way a mother could do this legally? Fwiw I don't agree with this mothers actions but just got to thinking about these questions.

Stop it lebron did kill them 1 on 1. He got a triple double in the last game. He carried the heat while bosh was out an while wade struggled throughout. Nobody threw this series. I get it you don't like lebron but this playoffs he dominated throughout. He proved this year he could win the big one. Game 6 in the Boston series was an amazing performance... And please don't get confused I'm a lakers fan.

Except Derrick rose isn't going to be healthy because he tore his acl in the playoffs. Lebron came into his own this year lockout or not.

I loved this and am glad others saw it. Everything I hate about sports journalism was highlighted by Cuban. These reporters aren't watching games they watch highlights and look at box scores. Cuban absolutely owned them and did it one at a time. Absolutely awesome television. As for skip you could see it was hard for him to swallow his pride. It'll be interesting to see what he has to say a bout lebron next season. The heat are def in a position to repeat.

tgregg is prob the best example of this for me. He used to have the guy with the weird face and I always wondered if it was really him. It was impossible for me to take any of his points serious either

the Chicago blues is by far my favorite! I don't want this thread to die without a mention of Luther Allison. I'm on my phone so I won't embed but YouTube bad love and see if it's your style. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwSvqo1TIw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I think you need to read the entire article before posting it to help your argument. At the bottom it states that it is purely satire. Not saying your point is wrong (even though I remember any issues it doesn't mean there weren't any) but this is not pod proof of your point.

:lol: I'm finding that out