Magox

I don't agree with the cut of Little, at all. Oh well.

No, you really haven't. The only thing you've offered up is your dismissive view of other people's opinions and partisan arguments to why voter ID's shouldn't be a valid requirement to vote. There have been other people such as myself who are willing to meet half way who are willing to empathize for the valid concerns of transportation and cost of ID to accommodate those anxieties.

Relatively speaking, approximately 99% of the rest of world is more racist than the U.S But don't tell Kap that. Also, not sure if anyone else saw B-man's post about this, but after the last game the other day, Kap was wearing a T-shirt that implied his support of Fidel Castro. Clearly, his awareness for irony is lacking.

The argument I made was both theoretical and evidenced based. And when there are polls after polls that show roughly 80% of the public agrees with providing an ID to vote and you see that essentially the rest of the developed world requires an ID, then you know that something is off. Even you admit that you don't disagree with having to provide an ID to vote and your reasoning for mild disagreement is because you don't believe it to be an issue.

If I wasn't clear then I apologize. 40% believevoter fraud to be a major issue based on polling. 80% believe that you should have to provide an ID in order to vote.

Irrespective of our views whether or not voter fraud is something that occurs often or not, the views and sentiments of approximately 40% of American's believe it to be a major issue. One of the most important things for a thriving democracy to have is to instill confidence for their citizens is to have elections that people believe to be free of corruption. That they aren't rigged, that when they cast their vote that it actually means something and that things will be recorded on the up and up. You may believe that it's not a real problem, and to be honest with you, I don't see it as a major issue either. But I do understand and empathize that for many American's it is potentially problematic. If we are talking about something that isn't overly burdensome such as providing a photo ID and if we are talking about alleviating the concerns of transportation and poll tax (*giggles*) cost to obtain an ID, then it's a no-brainer. The rest of the developed world does it and the vast majority of American's agree with it.

Now that is funny, coming from you.

Yes we do... And just like the bible, it is interpreted often with people who are predisposed to have their own ideological views. Unfortunately, centrism is a dying political space to reside.

I kind of laid out my theory on voter fraud in post # 1192. If the rest of the developed world is doing it and the majority of Americans think its a good idea, and we can provide transportation and free ID's, then we should all be in agreement with it.

It's a BS issue to you because you are a partisan, and your views are in the clear minority.

I'm not buying into your perceived views of what people's intentions or motives are. The rest of the developed world and the majority of the country believes its good policy and that is what I'm focused on. It's clear to me that your main concern is purely about partisan politics, which tells me that you are unable to view policy for what it is. I have these sort of conversations in PPP all the time and many of the Repubs over there are essentially the same as you, just that they are on the other team. I clearly laid out to you in plain spoken English, if there was a deal in place that provided transportation at no cost to obtain an ID, would you then be in favor of it, and you still couldn't say yes.

I'm asking you a question. Forget about what you believe the motives are, lets focus on the policy. If there are services that provide transportation at no cost to obtain an ID, would you then still be opposed to having to provide ID like the rest of the world does and what 80% of country believes we should do? Of course it's a good idea, the vast majority of the country believes it is as well and so does just about the rest of the world.

So if there was a deal made by legislators from both sides of the aisle that had initiatives such as this or this or some service that guaranteed transportation to the DMV to get an ID at no cost such as this You'd then be ok with having to provide an ID in order to vote?

So if there was a deal made by legislators from both sides of the aisle that had initiatives such as this or this or some service that guaranteed transportation to the DMV to get an ID at no cost such as this You'd then be ok with having to provide an ID in order to vote?

No, it's not. Period!

No you little twit, what people such as myself are saying is that pumping money into the economy via Government measured stimulus does not solve the structural issues we are facing. Don't you have somewhere else to be pretending to be something that you aren't?

You mean like this one? Or maybe you meant this one? Courts vary, in some areas they will vote one way and in another area they'll vote another way.

This is a no-brainer, having some sort of identification is a requirement throughout most of the world, it is good sound policy to help ensure voter integrity and the vast majority of Americans support it. The only reason why there is such opposition to it is because Democratic leaders believe that somehow this will give an infinitesimal advantage to their opposition. They aren't opposed to it because they believe it's bad policy. It's already supported by 80% of the public and the only reason why it isn't a 90% issue is because you will always have partisan lemmings who will follow what the party does on at least 90% of the issues because that is what they are conditioned to do. It's just a matter of time before the U.S catches up to the rest of the world when it comes to having to present ID in order to vote.

Duke has looked ok, but didn't he miss the tackle that led to the first touchdown?

That was a disgusting thing to do.

You'd have to be extremely naive to believe that the voting fraud convictions is an accurate depiction of what is truly going on in regards to voter fraud. Raise your hand if you ever cheated in school. C'mon, you know many of you have. Did you get caught? Over 70% of students of all students have cheated at some point in their lives while attending school and only 5% have ever been caught. I know I had and just about all my friends had but I can't seem to remember anyone ever getting caught. Mind you, logic dictates that getting caught cheating in school is much easier than fraudulent voting. If you don't have to bring an ID, how the hell do you get caught? Let's just put that aside for a second. What in the hell is wrong with having to provide an ID to go out and vote? We are talking about something that is kinda important, you need it to buy cigs, alcohol, lotto tickets, Democratic convention, clubs etc etc etc. So if we are talking about protecting the integrity of our Democracy by helping ensure that elections are not partaking in fraudulent activities and asking for voters to not provide something that isn't onerous at all, then why the fuss? Poll after poll after poll after poll after poll shows that the Vast majority of Americans believe you should have to provide an ID to vote. Even African Americans and Democrats. We aren't talking about slim majorities, we are talking about around 80%. So who are these people that are so opposed to voter ID's? Partisans, Democratic politicians (because they know that they can rile up their voters if they paint the opposition as wanting to take away their voting rights) and activists. A common excuse that I hear from some people's opposition to having to provide an ID to vote is that the Republicans motives for these laws are to suppress turnout. You know what? That may be true in some of the cases, when it comes to politics, people from both parties will do what it takes to get out votes. I don't doubt that some people harbor these motives. But who cares? That's not to say that most people feel that way and neither you nor I know whats in everyone's heart and what motives they hold. For me, I want people to vote but at the same time I want to make sure that only people who are supposed to vote, vote. Providing an ID, is not an arduous or burdensome task for the vast majority of people to go out and vote. There are services that are provided for people to get out to the polling stations for those that have issues in Rural America. Forget what you believe the motives are, we can sit here all day play the guessing game what the evil opposing parties intentions are, lets just focus on the policy. Providing an ID to go and vote is good policy and 80% of Americans agree.

No, but he did say that the country is oppressive to people of color and with his other previous statements the implication is clear, the country by and large is racist and oppressive, specially police departments throughout the country. He could have said that some people in our country are oppressive and racist but he chose not to. And not only did he choose to lump in the country as a whole, he used the national anthem to back his implication as his symbolic way of communicating that the country is oppressive and racist. Of course these are subjective terms, and he's entitled to them but let's not attempt to interpret what he said than anything other than that. He said what he said, there is no changing those words. He can try to clarify what he meant, but it's pretty clear what he meant.

Personally, it doesn't offend me. Just says to me that he's one of many of the uninformed lemmings who believes some of the things he purports to believe. Just like millions of Americans they see things unfold like in Ferguson, media blasts 24/7 that an "unarmed" kid was shot by the police and that "witnesses" stated that he had his hands up, and then the meme "hands up don't shoot" is created. NATIONAL OUTRAGE!!! We come to find out that he wasn't unarmed that he attempted to take the officers handgun from him and that the witnesses admitted that there really was no moment when Brown had his hands up and never stated don't shoot. Then we find out that just minutes earlier that Brown assaulted and bullied another minority from a convenience mart. But it's too late, NATIONAL OUTRAGE has already come about, politicians have already showboated the false meme in front of congress, people of the media reported it as if it was already a fact and then you have the Rams football players who stood in solidarity doing the same thing. Or look at the Baltimore situation, there was huge outrage against those 6 Baltimore cops. The media went wild and so did social media, and I'll bet my last bottom dollar that many of the Kap defenders on this thread were outraged about the Gray and Brown non scandal. Things that never happened, actually did happen. Not in reality, not in the real world but in the minds of millions of people. In regards to your statement, as I said, I'm not outraged or offended but I do feel the need to call out B.S when I see it. However, you called those that believe that this is disrespectful to the country as "brainwashed". We can't tell people how or what they should feel, feelings are subjective. There is no right or wrong, you see something and you may feel some sort of emotion about it. So while you or I or many others may not feel that it is disrespectful to the country, many others do. I could defecate on the U.S flag, have my own internal reasons as to why I did it, and I'm sure there would be many people that would be outraged and some that wouldn't. Doesn't mean it was disrespectful or that it wasn't, just depends on who you ask. The point that I'm trying to make is that even though you don't feel offended by what Kap does, doesn't mean that people who are offended by it are "brainwashed". They have their reasons and more than likely it is probably something that is emotionally driven, again there is no right or wrong.

It's an interesting topic, one that I have many views on and how it is interrelated with what we are seeing not just throughout Europe but now in the U.S as well.

You may not call it "severe" but I believe that the effects of BREXIT if it were to go through (which it won't) would be severe. So you and I can agree to disagree on that front. In regards to your second point, that is besides the point, we aren't discussing the merits of these peoples fear just that their fear exists and that fear had a measurable impact on the outcome of the BREXIT vote. And to your last point, you may be right or you may not, the point is that it did play a role.