Booger

Sorry about my choppy post earlier. Literally had 7 things going on while posting it and kept going back and forth. Anyway, I also read somewhere that Fitzgerald had to call out Floyd to have him participate in his camp and offseason workouts. Now, Floyd is entitled to do what he wants to do, but to become a superstar in the NFL (at least 99% of them) one must truly dedicate themselves to the game. There are only so many days before the season begins and I would say that if a superstar is reaching out to take you under his wing you should take full advantage. Almost seems as if Fitzgerald had to promise the Cardinals he would stay on top of Floyd if they drafted him. Again, not saying he is going to be bad/bust etc, but confirms in my mind that I am happy with whom the Bills selected. Best post of any...all is for nothing if an individual or team cannot prove it on the field.

For what its worth (not much at this point since the Bills did not draft him). http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6759/michael-floyd The fact that he is not clear cut the #2 at this point, and I know it is still very early, but I do believe this is concerning for Arizona. So many people wanted him as they thought he would come in and make an immediate impact and a few were on the complete opposite end of that. He still may do so in the long run, but it goes to show how tough it is in the NFL for WR's to transition immediately. Funny, I have read that Fitzgerald was really pushing for Zona to pick Floyd...then read that Fitzgerald was really trying to push Floyd to try harder and "want it". Goes to show that listening to the players may not always be the best thing. Now, lets hope from the stable of WR's the Bills currently have that one can step up as a solid #2 outside WR. It seems as if it will come down to Hagan, Easly or Jones.

They wont if the Bills are winning. Go back to the Bruce Smith / C Bennett days... Also, after watching that video, not sure how he even lasted on the Free Agent market. They are constantly saying pass rushers are tough to come by when it comes to free agency. This guy had 11 sacks last year....how did he last and how did the Bills get him??? Gonna be fun to watch him lined up with his new teammates on the D-Line. STAY HEALTHY BUFFALO

Would have been a #1 back on most teams. Selfless player which is very tough to find.

We sell out football games in the middle of winter even when not going to the playoffs? After reading your post and envisioning a take off of "Proud to be an American" playing softly in the background, I cannot help to realize and comment that your continuous lack of factual detail really discredit your points. If you are going to comment on stats look them up. The last 3 games (winter months) did not sell out last year as the fans were sick of paying to watch the Bills lose. Attendance was brutal and the fans had given up. Sure it is nice to see a post pointing out the positives about your city but there is also a point of honesty vs. building it up to what it is not. The "defensive stance" in us has a tendency to come out in defense of something we care about to where something is made out to be way better than what it is. Perfect example was made earlier on here about people defending Josh Reed during his tenure in Buffalo. As I have said many times before it is OK to criticize a player on your team, even a player that has not made public comments. As a fan you want that player to produce for your team, but in that same breath you should always want your team to be better and more competitive. Defending these guys does nothing for you, the team or the city of Buffalo...demanding performance does. If they perform great, but defending guys because of their name, where they were drafted (1st, 2nd, 3rd round etc), what they did in previous seasons or the "potential" they have does nothing for me. Just because they wear the Red, White and Royal does not give them a free pass in my book. The most important factor is performance on the field as Josh Reed has proven. He could care less about the city of Buffalo, the fans or the people...the same people who defended him, stood up for him and paid for tickets to watch him. You are sadly mistaken if you do not think there are other players on the Bills that feel the same way (also other teams). Demand performance, demand excellence and demand wins. That way when a guy like the next Reed is cut or leaves, a guy that many of you have stood up for to "give another chance" or "this is his year", at least you will have a winner to fall back on.

Definitely a dumb thing to say by Reed. Whoever said Buffalo is not for everyone is 100% spot on. I live in Charlotte NC now and have had a few buddies pass through Buffalo over the years all having pretty much the same reaction...."YEEESSHHHH, what the hell happened to this city?" One guy was there for an interview and crossed it off of the list as he was leaving the airport. SO, from an outsiders first impression, Buffalo is tough. Not very easy on the eyes, not much going on with a ton of strip plazas from the 70's, etc. Buffalo grows on you and you have to embrace it (ex. Jim Kelly). Being from Buffalo I hold it dear as most do whom have moved away. In that same breath I will admit that leaving Buffalo has also been great in terms of career and experiencing everything the rest of the country has to offer. This is had to explain and may be hard to understand without it sounding completely negative, but there are a ton of "different" landscapes throughout the country (at least on the surface) that appeal to people a little easier than Buffalo. Yes, there is a lot more to do in other cities that does not revolve around happy hour or sports. Again, this comes down to preference and no person is better than the next. For example, downtown Charlotte (where I live) 12 years ago was NOTHING. I was 21 years old and there were 3 or 4 bars total downtown...those bars being "Have a Nice Day Cafe and the "BAR" series.....But in those 12 years they have built up downtown Charlotte beautifully. There are now tons of apartment buildings, condo buildings, bars, restaurants (at least a hundred). The Democratic national convention, new NBA arena, Michael Jordan lives downtown (one of his many)....Anyway, Charlotte has accomplished this in 12 years...Buffalo has done nothing with the city in 50 due to corruption and such...instead just letting it decay (overall). Buffalo has a beautiful waterfront that is, for the most part, untapped. The problem is Buffalo let everything get away vs. being proactive and now opportunity lies elsewhere. Buffalo's economy is in the toilet and there is not the money available to make improvements. Weather and Taxes are a major obstacle of bringing industry to the city. In the end he never should have said what he said. He may be correct on a few points, but I will say that I do think some of the people in Buffalo are great. Love walking into the bar, sitting next a patron and having a 45 minute conversation over the state of the Bills while slugging down 4-5 beers and a dozen wings. To me, there are not many things in life better than that!

Obviously you didn't since you are back posting again. Also, not sure that I would call it personal when it is a topic about Troup and people continue to post. Just because you don't feel like contributing anything other than trying to "take a shot at me" makes you better vs. adding something of substance or posting some quality substance of how I am wrong? Please do so and keep living in the fantasy world. I am a fan. I can admit when the Bills made a mistake on a player and I can break it down as to why. I expect, and more importantly pay for, the Bills to win and put a winning team on the field. If I do not care for a player, do not think a player is panning out, playing to his potential or is just a plain old bust, I am not afraid to admit it. The Bills have been atrocious for 10 years. They do not get a "free pass" in my book because they have made some good moves on paper over the past 2 seasons. Show me a winner on the field, show me players that have contributed to that fantastic but until then I don't plan on coddling players because of where they were drafted, because they were drafted by the Bills, because they play on the Bills etc.

Amazing that these kids just don't get it. The NFL is like nothing they have ever experienced before. The best of the best to where their natural talent will only get them so far. So much needs to be learned and applied in the NFL for someone to become good and/or elite. Funny, so many times you see the push come when reality sets it around a contract year or the year immediately following when they were allowed to leave only to barely latch on somewhere else for a much smaller payday. Not saying this will happen with Floyd, but WR is one of the toughest positions to transition from college to NFL without putting any work in.

Good teams don't draft "project" type players to fill a need. Typically good teams are drafting players, such as Troup, in the 3rd round or beyond and as depth or to develop. The Bills instead drafted him to be an immediate starter. So basically the Bills reached for the 7th-10th best DT in the draft in the 2nd round and it has not come close to panning out any which way you look at it. So, to not have this issue going forward... 1. Draft the best player available no matter what (SPILLER draft). If there are a bunch of guys that really are graded the same, go with the biggest position biggest need (GILMORE this year in the 1st vs. Glenn). 2. Only take "project" type players or a backup (TROUP) when you have an established player in front. In the case of TROUP, he was drafted to fill the most important position when running the 3-4. Basically, from the start, the defense was poised to fail in him being a rookie and injury prone. The smart pick would have been CODY if it was a must to grab the DT in the 2nd round. Not saying I would have wanted CODY either, but at least he was a 1st round talent that slipped and a much better resume to justify a 2nd round pick. Stick to #1 above and you will indeed see more winning seasons than losing.

LOL...obviously you don't. The point is taking the best overall player (maybe second only because of injury) at his position at the point in draft vs. taking an unknown DT that was barley cracking the top ten at his position. We are talking about a 2nd round draft pick here not a 5th, 6th or 7th. If you want to look at the way it should be done, look at the past two drafts. In the 2nd round the Bills went with Williams and Glenn respectively. Both players were projected 1st round picks and slipped into the second round. There are only 32 spots to fill in that first round, players will slip. If you do not think there is intelligence/skill/scouting behind the draft then you really need to take a seat from posting. You have just experienced 10 years of sub par drafts to average at best. Finally in the past 2 years it seems as if they have started to concentrate on staying away from the "project" type players when the obvious talent is still on the board. The perfect example of your argument would be your support of drafting Maybin when Orakbo fell to the Bills (and beyond). Realize that is what your argument supports. Hindsight right???

Terrible comparison when you are talking about a late 1st to 2nd round pick (post injury) in Gronk vs. a 6th round QB. In this case we are talking about passing over a TE, position of need, with a 1st to 2nd round pick projected draft position in front of Troup who was a projected 3rd round pick at best. So, in comparison, Brady could/should only be compared to the players that were drafted where he was projected to go (6th or 7th round). I believe that leaves him being compared with Lief Larson.

Why would that be a buzzkill? Pretty sure that the current GM is doing a fine enough job (at least on paper) but I will keep that in mind for when the new search begins someday. Again, amazes me. Reading into your post "Thud" you are defending the pick of Troup and must consider it a great pick along with every other pick the Bills have made over the past 10 years...or maybe in this case, the "Nix" years. It is ok to admit, as a fan, that the Bills may have missed on a pick, or picked a player to early, or missed on a draft, or that a player may not fit the team. All that I am saying is there is no need to bleed out every last lick of "potential" out of a player vs. the reality of the situation. He has never shown anything on the field except being a "project" when healthy. He seemed like a reach, including EVERYONE on this board at the time and most NFL analysts, and he has proven to be just that. This is a sport, but it is also a billion dollar business with a very small window to prove yourself. Guys that need more than 3 years to do so (Ex. McKelvin who for some reason blinds people with his play on the field) are typically NEVER going to make it in the NFL. Sure every LONG once in a while there is a steal out there coming off an injury (Ted Washington) but those are guys have have also generally showed something at one point or another. Troup has never done anything to justify a strong defense. No one had heard of him before he was even drafted. In this case Troup has a mountain to climb. 1. He has a horrific injury and a history of always being injured his short time in the NFL. 2. He was drafted as an NT. For him to make the switch from the 3-4 to a 4-3 is another huge obstacle he must conquer. Please (anyone who knows football on a professional level) do not tell me this is "easy". I am not saying it cannot be done, but it is no where close to being easy. These are the elite of the elite and have spent thousands of hours practicing what they know. To make that switch is not easy. 3. He is buried on the depth chart. If one wants to argue that there is no depth chart yet, he is amongest a sea of DT's looking to make the team. Sure it is an "open" competition but you better believe they will go with a player that has been less injured if they grade out to being close to the same. The great thing is at the end of camp, baring injury, the Bills should have some decent depth no matter who makes the squad. I have no issue of it being Troup if he is healthy and can potentially give us 16 games. If it is going to be one of those seasons where he is on the injury report week in and week out as doubtful then PASS.

Honestly, not even worth a response anymore. It is getting pretty bad on the board with people who post that obviously don't think about what they are writing and more so have no evidence to back anything they type up. People really think that by making up stats and making blind statements they are contributing and building a positive reputation with the other members of this board. Time to start calling these guys out...not for the fact to give them more publicity for their stupidity but to prevent people with true football knowledge and insight from leaving the forum and no longer contributing. Oh yeah. MRAGS, still waiting on that dinner.

Yup, go back to your Madden game. 47 receptions and he missed 3 games. Also was 3rd team All American and added to the Lombardi Award watch list going into his Junior year.... Did you not read up on the best talent to come out of WNY in decades? Oh wait, you must be on board with mrags in that Gronk is not that good. The guy was taken #42 after having "career threatening" surgery...where do you think he would have fell without ever having to have that surgery? Sure, this post is not about Gronk and nor should it be. So stop responding with nonsense and taking offense to a players ability just because he does not play on the Bills.

100% agree. Be honest and stop defending each and every move that is ever made. If the Bills had a history of winning then fine. It may have "filled a need" but it was not a good pick. It was a bad pick (yes John, a bad pick) because it was a REACH to fill a need. Very possible that TROUP was going to be there in the 3rd....so, would you of rather had Gronk and Troup, Gronk and Carrington or Troup and Carrington?

Pre-Injury he was a projected top ten pick. It was post injury that he was hoping first round but expecting the 2nd. Post definitely got away from the point but I believe that was due to the lack of football knowledge that was exposed on the board. People post and respond with zero knowledge of a situation OR seem to make up their own scenarios without ever reading up on things.

Do a little research there mrags....here are his records after his first 2 years in the NFL. To me they are pretty impressive. I'll let you know where you can buy me dinner after the season as in 2 years Gronk has 27 TD receptions to where Shockey has 37 TD receptions over 10 years. Shockey averaged 54 catches per year, 600 yards and 3.7 TD's...sounds about the going rate for any average TE in the league. Gates has no records, Sharpes records have been passed leaving a whole bunch set by Tony Gonzalez. So I am sure you meant TONY GONZALEZ has "broken" records and not Gates or Sharpe. Also, pretty sure that some day his records will be broken as most are...maybe not by Gronk, but someday someone may. So far Gronk has ONLY achieved in two years: Youngest player with 3 touchdown receptions in a game: 21 years, 214 days (2010, vs. Pittsburgh Steelers) Youngest player with 3 touchdown receptions in a game, playoffs: 22 years, 275 days (2011 playoffs, vs. Denver Broncos) Most touchdown receptions by a tight end, season: 17 (2011) Most touchdowns by a tight end, season: 18 (2011) First tight end to lead the league in receiving touchdowns (2011) Most receiving yards by a tight end, season: 1,327 (2011) Most offensive touchdowns in first two seasons: 28 (Tied with Randy Moss) Oh yeah, on top of it all, the Gronkowski's still live in Williamsville. He went to play football for a better opportunity outside of Buffalo just as thousands move away from Buffalo every year to take an opportunity for advancement in life. Many if not most still hold a special place in their heart for Buffalo so while you say "F-Him" for moving away to better his career you are also saying that to the tens of thousands that have done the same. So, please correct me where I am wrong in saying that "he is on the path of becoming one of the best all time" after reviewing the statistics above. I dont think you have much credibility left after your post and should maybe think about sitting a few years out.

I would guess to say they would be pretty close. Gronk has shown time and time again he will go up and get it. His combination of speed, size, strength and hands makes him pretty difficult to stop. Perfect example would be Shannon Sharpe's stats with Dilfer chucking the ball to him. Try watching some of the catches Gronk makes or what he does after the catch. Pretty amazing player.

Agreed and also sick of it as well. I think the fact that he is a Buffalo boy as well plays a huge role into it. This Troup post made me actually go back and read the draft bio's for both players. Kind of fuels the fire a little bit because they all mention Gronk having injury concerns but are also confident he would be a late 1st, early 2nd round pick. That coupled with the need and the fact that he is from Buffalo just seems as if it would have been the perfect fit in the 2nd round. Lets do hope we get something out of that draft. I just went through it and the Bills had some of the lowest grades per round. One thing that did stand out is that one of the "steals" (highest rated 7th round pick) of that draft in the 7th round was a pick by the Texans...DORIN DICKERSON....lets hope that maybe we make up for it and figure out a way how to use this guy. So many players still on the fence (Moats, Batten, Carrington, Troup, Easly) of even making the team to where all we really have to show for that draft is CJ at this point. I actually think the Pats thought Buffalo was taking Gronk. They moved up aggressively after Buffalo picked to take him but in looking at it they really could not get in before Buffalo as the Eagles, Bucs and Dolphins had already made trades. My guess is they were amazed that Buffalo did not take him and then swooped in to snag him. Just my guess but it would make sense based on the factors stated previously.

I am not sure how much I buy into that. Find it somewhat hard to believe that a guy that is well on his way to becoming one of the best TE's (if not the best) of all time...a guy who was not only able to start his rookie year but also contribute at a high level. The Bills drafted a player in the first round a few years back coming off one of the most horrific injuries ever seen only to sit him for an entire year with the hope that he could regain his form and someday play in the NFL again. Maybe Gronk (also from Buffalo) was not in the Bills plans but tough to argue or defend the pick of Troup there. ***AND THE REASON why I am not buying into injury concerns to where teams removed him off of their board all together is that he still left college early after sitting out the 2009 season. I am guessing he understood that he was no longer being looked at in the top 10 or maybe even 1st round, but he never would have left college if he was not getting a read on teams showing (at that time) 1st day interest. He still went to the combine, still worked out at his pro-day and also had a team trade up in the draft to draft him. Bad job 2 ways...drafting an unproven player to eary to try and fill a need in Troup and not doing your homework on a player such as Gronk that would have been a gift in the 2nd round for another position of need.

Sure, but the Bills had a need for a TE as well. The question was do you take a chance on the top rated TE in the draft, one that was at one point projected a top 10 pick but had an injury concern OR on a long shot DT that you are hoping can fill a need at DT because of a switch to the 3-4. The Troup pick was very similar to the Hardy pick in that it seemed the player was picked to "fill the need" vs. an overall evaluation of talent.

yup, the Bills drafted him over Gronk in the 2nd round to fill a need

i think i can punt the ball with a better spiral than what Fitz throws

throws a spiral? Take a look at all of those Mini Camp videos as they talk up either the receiver or d-back...but notice that every single ball he throws comes out very poorly....is that concerning?

This is what some of you want to bring to Buffalo...as I said in my post on page 3 about Palmer, you guys (and gals) realize that running around trying to get open like we did when we were 7 does not translate to a successful offense in the NFL correct? Multiple sources tell the Boston Globe that Chad Ochocinco just didn't have the "football I.Q." to succeed with the Patriots. "The Patriots would literally tell him to run a route a certain way, and a minute later he would run it the other way," wrote the Globe's Greg Bedard. "It happened all the time." During recent OTAs, he also struggled to recognize zone versus man coverage. Even if it irked Carson Palmer, Ochocinco often got away with freelancing as opposed to running the correct route in Cincinnati. That was never going to work in the Patriots' precision timing offense, which relies on receivers to make pre-snap reads and run exactly where Tom Brady expects them to run.