thewildrabbit

Yep! This team is built to win now! Any rookie or really young inexperienced QB is going to endure growing pains in the sense of losing games for the team. Do the Bills want to wait 2-3 years for a QB to properly develop?

Didn't Doug Whaley go to Fla to personally scout EJ, as I seem to recall he said he did. Anyway, here is Buffalo Rumblings report on EJ. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/4/21/4234106/ej-manuel-2013-nfl-draft-scouting-report "Manuel needs lots of time to grow into a quarterback. Right now, he's an athlete playing quarterback. He needs to go to a team with a stable front office and coaching situation where he can develop at a slower pace. He can't run a NFL offense right now without significantly watering down the offense, or tailoring the offense the way Fisher did at Florida State." "A team that takes Manuel needs to have a long-term development plan. A team that does so could have a quarterback like Colin Kaepernick... or, if they rush him to the field, Tim Tebow." Thrown into the fire by Doug Maroon, and his sidekick Mr Can't Hackett.

There was a DB named James Williams who played in the NFL 6 seasons 4 with the Bills. The only reason I bring his name up is he had a visual problem with depth perception. Meaning he had great difficulty making interceptions. Once saw him in a game, and he had a perfect chance to make an interception... then completely misjudged the ball. This happened more then a few times. DE Erik Flowers played 5 years in the NFL with a total of 5 sacks. OT Mike D Williams was considered a bust because he was the #4 overall pick that was drafted to start at LT, and ended up as a bad RT. Played 5 years in the NFL. DE Aaron Maybin played in the NFL 4 years, and got all 6 of his sacks in one of two seasons with the Jets. DT John McCargo played in the NFL 6 seasons and had only one game start in all those years 2.5 sacks, 35 tackles. QB JP Losman played 7 years in the NFL with a record of 10-23 with 33 TD's, 34 INT's Over a decade of futility... Receiving honorable mention in all those bad draft picks should be #2 pick WR James Hardy who was supposed to be a Plaxico Burris type threat, and may as well shot himself in the leg. Gone after two seasons.

It was even more stupid for the Bills FO to not have a QB coach in EJ's rookie season. Shoot, they even ended up having no veteran QB on the roster either so it was three young QB's learning the NFL ropes from a college puke OC who had very limited NFL experience himself. .having only one NFL season as offensive quality control..whatever that job entails.

All I could do was laugh when I first saw the report on the NFL network. Its the Jests!

All fans need to recall is the 2010 pre season where the supposed QB "guru" stated that all three QB's were about the same. Then Trent Edwards emerged as the starter in camp, and was defiantly defended by the HC after fans heckled him in TC. After the second regular season game the starter was out right released by the team, and the back up QB was starting. We got to see that third stringer in action during the season, and then he was released the next year. So much for all three looking the same! The point being is that nothing is set in stone just yet, and a lot will depend on how well Cassel can perform against that Carolina first string defense. I would think all the QB's will get a chance to play, and TT-EJ are still strong works in progress. Which QB is the best game manager, and least likely to make mistakes? Also, what will be interesting in my view is how the current depth chart will change should the Bills effectively build that power run game, or not. JMO

Thanks for posting 26 CB Loved what Bill Polian had to say about Marv Levy. "But for Marv I would not have a career in pro football, let alone be standing here. He is my mentor, my role model, my friend." "I have very often failed to live up to his example, but I never failed to continue to try. Because for me he represents all I ever aspired to be, when I was a young man dreaming impossible dreams. I am thrilled that on this great day I can take another walk, side by side in these hallowed halls, with the man who did so much to put me here." Even Marv says it put a tear in his eye.

This thread is way shorter then the positive thread, so lets fix that. First, expecting the new coaches (line coach Aaron Kromer & OC Greg Roman) to pull off the task of building a top line this season from the ashes of the very worst run blocking unit in the league last year will be nothing short of epic...almost biblical in proportions. Meaning that it may take some help from the good lord above. I say this because like a QB's development it generally takes 2-3 years for a O lineman to develop properly unless they are a gifted first or second rounder. Expecting a 3rd rounder or a 7th rounder to to step into an NFL starting job and instantly become competitive is basically asking for a miracle. Consider that Marrone & Hackett ran the ball so often in their first year, and accomplished almost nothing but some good overall run stats. The Bills were #1 team in the NFL in rushing attempts, and the #2 team in the NFL in rushing yards, and the most it got them was 6-10! The Bills fielded an offense that garnered the nickname the "hurry up and punt offense". Yet that team as much as they ran the ball couldn't make a 3rd and short by running, or control the clock with the run game. It was usually a very predictable 1st down run up the middle followed by a 2nd down run up the middle followed by a third and long the rookie QB's were forced to try and make, and that typically ended up with a punt! That year the Bills were 31st in first down stats with 273 first downs out of 1,020 plays with a first down % of 26.8. The Bills were also 29th in 3rd down efficiency. 25th in 3 and out percentage That year the Bills ran a most simplistic passing offense because of the rookie QB's. They could have fielded a more complex run offense other then 70+% of the time up the middle for which they really had no bruising up the gut type RB. Instead they had a "waterbug" type RB (Gailey's term), and an older elusive RB with 8 years already under his belt. Neither starting RB's were built for that pound it up the gut style that Nathaniel Hackett wanted to run. Even now this year the Bills have RB in McCoy that needs a hole and is not a pound it up the gut type RB like Greg Romans previous starting RB Frank Gore is. Perhaps Dixon or Williams is better suited for that role, and McCoy / Jackson as the change ups once the defense is not expecting a run or worn down. Anyway, I can see the starters having some difficulty in finding openings especially on the right side of this years line. Next, consider that last season the 49ers fielded the #4 rushing offense, and were #9 in rushing attempts with punishing RB Gore rushing for 1106 yards on 255 carries. Plus they already have their franchise QB in Colin Kaepernick. A four year QB that already helped them get to the SB, and playoffs. Then the 49ers field one of the very best offensive lines in the league with several pro bowlers on it. They have one of the best young TE's in the game with Vernon Davis, and a decent WR corps with Crabtree, Boldin. Their defense was also pretty good with being 5th in yards allowed, and 10th in points.They also had one of the best young head coaches in the league in Jim Harbaugh. Last year the 49ers finished the season 8-8 Hrmm, should we discuss last years NY Jets? Last year the Jets were #4 in rushing attempts, and #3 in rushing yards. Then they had the #6 defense in yards allowed, but stunk in being 24th in points allowed. The Jets had some decent RB's in Chris Ivory, Chris Johnson along with WR's Eric Decker, Percy Harvin. Although Harvin only had 8 game starts. The Jets have some pro bowlers on their offensive line that was ranked #13 overall, and they graded 8th in pass blocking. Which really doesn't explaining the poor play of their QB's! Need I remind anyone how bad the Jets were last year with horrid QB play by Geno Smith- Mike Vick with the Jets finishing the year 4-12. What does all this mean? Just don't expect the Bills to dominate the league just from playing good defense, and running the ball. Its a start, but more factors are involved. The QB play is still highly important, and not by just having a game manager. The Bills will need to hit the big play from time to time from Sammy, Goodwin, Harvin to keep the opposing defense honest, and keep them from stacking the box. Bills fans along with the Bills FO need to remember that EJ has had only 14 game starts, and that was with no nothing morons coaching him. I look at this season as EJ's first year with some actual qualified veteran NFL coaching tutoring him. Should EJ get the starting job there will be growing pains over the next two years IMHO. However once EJ settles in and "gets it". Meaning reading the defense properly and seeing the entire field, he could be all they first thought he could be! a top 15 starter. The kid needs a chance to learn and develop. So, expecting a great season this year with playoffs is kinda day dreaming at this point. With Matt Cassel as the starter I can see the Bills entering the season looking somewhat good, and when when opposing defenses see Cassel's arm limitations (especially at RWS with those swirling, gusting winds) I can see defenses moving up to stop the run like they did with Fitz. Its possible to see a decent passing offense this year, as long as that left side of the line holds up. How good would the team have been with Fitz, and a #1 defense? With Cassel the statue everything is so dependent on the players in front of him holding their blocks. At least Fitz could run and escape the rush. Tyrod Taylor might have great difficulties as the starter, as he will always be looking to run to escape the rush. Like with Bryce Brown and his fumbles we can expect some INT's. I know Bills fans look at him and see another Russell Wilson. No way the Ravens let the guy walk if they saw that kind of talent in him. They would have found a way to get him involved in the offense. This kid is still inexperienced and needs a bunch of playing time. I can see growing pains in this years offense from any of the three QB's starting. JMO

Thanks a bunch for posting! Good to have another perspective other then from the beat writers.

Its inconceivable to me to think that they wouldn't find a way to sign him. Not from what I saw. That last series with Johnny Football ended with a pull down and sack before Conner Shaw took over. and yea, John still needs a lot of work , as he kept watching just the primary receiver from what I saw.

Kirby, go back and look at that first off season with no QB coach for a rookie QB, and Colin Brown / Doug Legursky to replace Levitre. Then Erik Pears at RG, really? Unmitigated disasters. The O line still isn't totally solidified after three off seasons, as we don't know just yet if either Incognito or Miller will be up to the task of becoming solid starters. Not to mention just how bad the RT situation still looks. Henderson will need to improve drastically to show competent play. Right now everything looks great on paper, and we will see very soon how well this years off season went. Aug 14th Carolina at Buffalo to start the pre season. It really was a crazy way to try and develop a second year player with only 12 game starts, and I for one was glad they benched EJ before he ended up being completely ruined in Hackett's sudden pass happy offense. Kinda surprised Orton managed to survive the year behind that godawful line. There was a report that before he quit Marrone asked for more money and an extension and both were granted. He also asked for more power over personnel decisions and that was denied. In the end I believe that Marrone lost a power struggle with Whaley and ultimately that is why he walked away.

His exact words! "Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley said Wednesday that the Bills are "almost in quarterback purgatory" because they do not have a franchise quarterback and are unlikely to pick near the top of the draft in coming years." The righteous indignation over the perceived idea that someone wants the current GM gone or fired is getting to ridiculous proportions. Its like someone shot your dogs or something. All I've ever mentioned was getting the man some help in the form of a senior adviser, and really nothing more. He really does need help with the offense IMO. This thread wouldn't exist if the team already had their franchise QB. With Whaley basically acknowledging that EJ isn't it, and hence the discussion of this topic.

I agree to a point, as I have a somewhat different opinion. As I see it he has done very well with the defensive side, and not so well with the offensive side. Whaley took over in the 2013 off season, and tried to replace an average OG with complete garbage in Colin Brown, Doug Legursky. That with a rookie QB starting Then last off season tried to correct the issues with the line, and drafted a RT with a #2 pick that was so bad he couldn't get on the field on one of the worst lines in the league. The 7th rounder started but was one of the worst players in the league at his position. Erik Pears at RG, really? Last years line was clearly the weakest area of the team, and this year he addressed it with a maybe at LG, and a rookie at RG. It really remains to be seen if any of the players drafted last season will step on that right side. It also remains to be seen if the third round rookie at RG will step up to become a decent starter. Then the biggest issue is still the lack of the franchise QB which is what this entire thread is all about. There are no questions like this with the defensive side! I still don't see where it would hurt anything to get some NFL experienced help in the offensive player evaluations. Yea, tell that to Washington for the three #1's for RG3. I think any team drafting the #1 or #2 overall would have to do just as much if not more homework on a QB. Because when they fail with that pick it really sets the franchise back for years. Ask the Raiders about JaMarcus Russell or the Chargers about Ryan Leaf- the Browns about Tim Couch- the Texans about David Carr- The Colts about Jeff George. Ya think Bill Polian would still be going into the HoF this year had he drafted Ryan Leaf? NFN, but Whaley and his staff already had a bite of the first round QB apple in EJ, and judging by this article I'd have to say he feels they didn't find that franchise QB just yet. A quote from the article: "And until you get that [franchise quarterback], what is the best way to win?" Whaley said Wednesday on WGR 550. "And it's running the ball, playing good defense and protecting the ball. So what we're saying is, 'Let's get as much talent around the guy, and all he has to do is make the right decision. He doesn't have to put the team on his back and throw it 50 times a day.' Yet that is basically what the team was asking of EJ against the Chargers in week three of last year with 40 passes vs 22 rushes. Then they did it again against the Texans the following game with 44 passes vs 23 rushes. The last coaching staff was asking EJ to put the team on his back, and when he struggled they benched him for Kyle Orton. Then they asked Orton to carry the team. Then, is the current FO critique of EJ based on what they saw from EJ in the games that got him benched?

good stuff, thanks for posting. loved the pics!

good stuff, thanks for posting

Rodgers was drafted 24th in the first round. If the Org is running so well then why is the GM making excuses about the QB situation? You can get off your platform that we don't need no czar BS when clearly it might just help to have a Polian, Ron Wolf, Ernie Accorsi type. Seriously, how on earth would it possibly hurt having a senior football adviser to help a young GM?

Lets not forget that Polian also drafted QB Kerry Collins for the expansion Carolina Panthers with the #5 pick in the first round. Polian was hired away from Carolina after two short years, after the man built a team from scratch that went 12-4 in its second year of existence. Collins eventually did manage to get to a SB with the NY Giants. Polian was also essential in signing / bringing in QB Jim Kelly for Buffalo, and making him the highest paid QB in the NFL at that time. He was also instrumental in drafting Bruce Smith, and negotiating his first contract. Then later on when the Broncos offered two first rounders for Bruce ole Bill kept him in Buffalo when others wanted the picks. Polian also knew the difference between Peyton Manning, and Ryan Leaf when the Chargers where foolish enough to make him the very next pick in the draft. There is a reason why the man is being inducted into the pro football hall of fame this year! Oh BTW, exactly how long did it take for Polian to find a QB good enough to take all four teams he was GM / president of to the playoffs? I'll tell ya, two years with all four teams! Some want to keep deflecting the fact that here we are in year three of the current GM's reign, and even he acknowledges the team is still devoid of the single key player needed for a SB run.

Scouting prospective college QB's is not an exact science, and many, many teams with highly paid scouts / evaluators fail all the time. However, there are some brilliant offensive football minds in the NFL, and those men can actually see the difference between the players who will become starting QB's in the NFL and those who won't. This franchise has been beset by ineptitude for years, and years by bad player evaluation, and in some areas they still appear to be. I believe Bill Polian is one of those men who can see that QB talent, and right now Doug Whaley & co is looking like not. Like I posted earlier, that someone in the Bills FO stated that EJ had the stature of a big man, and yet doesn't throw like one. Where was that critique when they were evaluating him?

NFN, I have never, ever advocated firing Doug Whaley. As I have stated in the past I think the entire Bills org, IE Whaley knows his stuff on the defensive side of the ball, and is somewhat wanting for the offensive side. My thinking is the Bills really, really needed that football czar to help a young GM reach his full potential. Polian might have been the perfect answer in not staying around for long and yet the young GM could pick his brain as to what exactly he looks for in a college QB.

But, But, who should they have gone after the last two years? Oh wait! I mean since EJ was benched, and the FO knew after three games last season that he wasn't the answer then why not try for a top FA QB or draft one this off season? Well, they could have tried a trade for one but they didn't have a 2015 1st round pick because they needed to draft that once in a generation WR last year. So trading up for one of the top two was out of the question, and I presume the FO had no faith in Garrett Grayson taken by the Saints in the 3rd, or Sean Mannion taken by the Rams in the 3rd. Then there was Bryce Petty in the 4th or Brett Hundley in the 5th. The Bills didn't have a Nick Foles to trade the Rams for Sam Bradford so I guess they were indeed stuck in QB purgatory. Never mind that there were other possible free agent QB's like Brian Hoyer, Josh McCown, Ryan Mallett, Christian Ponder. All of these guys must be worse then Matt Cassel, right? The bigger picture seems to be that GM Doug Whaley was "all in" on EJ when he drafted him, and again "all in" on him during the 2014 draft when he used two first rounder picks a fourth on a WR. Shoot, because if he had known EJ wasn't the man then he could have beaten the Raiders to Derek Carr or the Patriots to Jimmy Garoppolo, right? Bottom line here I have serious doubts that anyone currently employed by the Buffalo Bills would know the difference between a good college QB prospect and a bad one. Simple as that! Mentioning Raiders rookie QB Derek Carr I seem to recall that rookie QB playing in all 16 games last year, and he played on one of the very worst teams in the game. Yet that rookie looked darn good at the end of the season by beating the #4 defense in the league!! Then making that defense look quite ordinary even tho that team had the best pass rush in the entire league! Carr went 17 of 34 for 2 TD's and NO Int's. Imagine that! Isn't that what a promising rookie should look like by the end of his first season by beating a team with a top defense on the verge of the playoffs? I highly doubt this thread would even exist if EJ had played that well at the end of the season against a team with a defense as good as the Buffalo Bills were last year. PS. I still have faith that EJ can still develop into a starting NFL QB if coached properly this season, and circumstances allow his further development...even if nobody in the Bills FO does. The Bills FO basing their current opinions given them by the previous coaching staff of clowns?

I agree, It is surprising! What a thing to admit as he is the one who went and scouted EJ and then drafted him. I recall recently reading that someone in the FO thinks EJ has the stature of a big strong QB, but doesn't throw like one. Where was this critique when he was being scouted? Aaron Rodgers drafted 24th in the first round- won SB Tom Brady drafted in the 6th round- won SB Drew Brees drafted in the 2nd round-won SB *Peyton Manning #1 overall won SB *Andrew Luck #1 overall Ben Roethlisberger #11 first round-won SB Tony Romo undrafted free agent Phillip Rivers #4 overall Matt Ryan #3 overall Russell Wilson 3rd round-won SB *Cam Newton 1st overall *Eli Manning 1st overall- won SB *Matthew Stafford 1st overall Joe Flacco-#18 first round-won SB Ryan Tannehill 8th first round *Sam Bradford 1st overall Colin Kaepernick 2nd round Jay Cutler 1st round 11th pick *Carson Palmer 1st overall *Alex Smith 1st overall Teddy Bridgewater 1st round #32 Robert Griffin III #2 overall Andy Dalton 2nd round Nick Foles 3rd round Derek Carr 2nd round Geno Smith 2nd round *Jamis Winston 1st overall Josh McCown 3rd round Marcus Mariota 2nd overall Bryan Hoyer undrafted free agent Looking at this years lists of starting QB's is total proof that you don't need a #1 or #2 overall pick to win a SB as only two of eight of those first-second overalls have won a SB. The Bills don't need the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft to obtain a franchise QB if they have someone on the scouting staff who can actually evaluate a college or free agent QB properly. Kinda why i think it might have been smart for Pegula to hire that football czar.

Guys, the defense almost always starts out better in training camp and in the season because its so much easier to get up to full speed in learning the defensive play book then the offensive playbook. Then you need to consider the Bills O is facing the best defense in the league this year in practice. BTW, I wouldn't read to much into Brady struggling early... as in the first four games of the 2014 season. The Patriots lose to the Dolphins 20-33 in the opener at Miami, and then get clobbered by the Chiefs two weeks later in KC 41-13. Thus going 2-2. That Chiefs game had every Patriots fan crying in their beers that the dynasty was OVER! ​ Then NE went on a 10-2 run with the Gronk getting better each week. Its only been four days of practice!! Can we give it a few weeks before mashing down on that QB panic button?

Do you happen to recall why Dick Jauron drafted Eric Wood, and Andy Levitre? Well I do! It was because ole dickie stopped having nightmares about Brady to Randy Moss, and started having them about Kris Jenkins eating his QB's. In 2008 the Bills played the NY Jets at Buffalo, and Phil Simms was announcing. There was a play with both OG's, and the center tried unsuccessfully to block Kris Jenkins. Yeah, that's right as the TV world watched one Jets player was triple teamed by the Bills interior line, and Jenkins still got to the QB!! Jauron then realized he needed to replace the entire interior of the Bills line, and did so for 2009. Now sadly, that was the same year that the Bills decided to trade away all pro LT Jason Peters, and the reason the team had the extra picks. The FO in all its stupidity thought they could replace the most important position on the line in all pro Peters with a 7th rounder in Demetress Bell. Needless to say the Bills could have drafted Lber Clay Matthews instead of Aaron Maybin or Alex Mack instead of Wood, but that is another sad story entirely. P.S. With the interior line its not about one on one blocking when you are facing two of the best DT's in the league. Its about making sure that both players are adequately blocked, and knowing the line assignments. With two new players at OG in Incognito and rookie Miller I'd say off hand the problem is more with them understanding, and knowing their responsibilities every play. The center calls the line assignments, and needs to make certain he is snapping the ball accurately which can leave him vulnerable on the side he snaps with because he needs to get that arm up and into position very quickly. If a "good" center is getting overpowered its probably because one of the OG's are not very good at their job. JMO PPS Evan Mathis where are you?

I would like to know which people in the Bills FO have given up on EJ, and exactly why! Me personally, I have great difficulty in giving up on a first round pick after two years that was supposed to be a project at QB, and especially after him starting in only 14 regular season games. Then considering his lack of a solid line around him, bad coaches / schemes. Then no vet QB or QB coach his first year.

This is about the best advice for anyone playing in fantasy leagues. Never draft with your heart.