thewildrabbit

Twenty three pages... man is this team starved for a a good QB. Dreaming about Phillip Rivers is far beyond the dream for Sam Bradford IMO. The biggest reason why Rivers didn't re-sign with the Chargers is because, "The stadium situation has become an issue with Rivers, who may not want to move his wife and seven (yes, seven) children to Los Angeles, if the team relocates." http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/17/philip-rivers-wont-sign-a-new-contract-before-his-current-one-expires/ How on earth could this team even afford to sign Rivers in 2016 when they can't afford to keep all the players they already have. Dareus, Gilmore, Bradham, and Glenn with the starting LT being talked about as the odd man out will just screw this team again for a few years. Remember the 2013 season with Rivers getting knocked about on a bad offense...

and I could be underestimating those changes. Trust me, I'd be singing a far different tune if the team had signed Brian Bulaga / Jahri Evans or different players at those positions with similar talent. I just don't see much success this year with the current QB's struggling to make plays. If you don't have an elite QB, you had better have a damn good line. When a team becomes one dimensional they become so easy to shut down.

Hey man, I'll be ecstatic should the Bills field a even a somewhat decent offensive line this year. So cheers The sad reality is the GM went after top veterans OT / OG in free agency for a very real reason.

Not to pee in the OP's cereal but the Viks have had AD, and ran the ball since 2007 and got to 10-6 with Gus Frerotte at QB, then 12-4 with Brett Favre at QB in 2009. They have had the unquestionable best RB, top 15 running attack in the NFL since 2007 and elite / non-elite QB's and they fared better with Favre. Needless to say the Bills drafted Lynch at the same time as the Viks drafted AD, and still stunk it up since 2007 for various reasons. For whatever reason the Bills were never able to get the production from Lynch that the Seahawks were able to get out of him. Granted he got 1000 yards in Buffalo but that was usually because he was dragging three defenders along with him. The Bills drafted RB CJ Spiller who was a phenom in college, and only Gailey was able to get great production out of him. The great running team that stands out to me was the 2009 Baltimore Ravens with rookie Joe Flacco at QB. They finished the 09 season at 9-7 and made the playoffs as a wildcard team. They went up to Foxborough Mass, and played against against the 10-6 Patriots in Gillette stadium. On the road in NE Joe Flacco threw 4 of 10 passes for 34 yards with one INT the entire game. The Ravens won that wildcard game 34-14 by running the ball 52 times with 234 yards rushing, and four TD's. Ravens OC Cam Cameron utilizing OT's to run block instead of TE's just plowed over the NE defensive line and crushed them. The Ravens giving the Bills a perfect blueprint on how to dominate the Patriots with a dominate run game that can actually move the chains, play great defense, annnnnnd apparently nobody in Buffalo was watching. As others have pointed out that Tom Brady won another SB behind a not so great O line that took a few weeks to jell. Remember that 41 to 14 drubbing by the Chiefs that had every Patriots fan crying in his beer that the dynasty was over? No RB on the Patriots had more then 412 rushing yards, and the only receiver over 1000 yards was "Gronk" with 1,124. So they got it done a good secondary, one decent pass rushing LBer with 8 sacks, and their superstar QB. Yes, delusional.

What it looks like the last 15 years of million dollar moron coaches, and many fans just didn't understand is ...that even if you have an elite QB you had better be able to protect the most important player on the field. The Bills found an elite QB in statuesque Drew Bledsoe and instead of continuing to build the O line to properly protect him (which they intended by drafting OT Williams #4 overall)... they instead told him to get the ball out quicker. Then tried to replace him with a first round scrub QB, and an aging journeyman QB. The scouts didn't get it right with that 1st round pick at OT so they thought that they would most certainly get it right with the QB. The entire idea behind drafting JP was that he was more mobile, and how did that work out? How on gods green earth can coaches expect to succeed with any QB with known inferior players on the line is beyond me. Bring in a bight new shiny QB, and let him get the crap beaten out of him for a few years, and then wonder what happened! Trent Edwards might have become another Joe Montana as Bill Walsh suggested... except for the several severe concussions he suffered behind a bad line. Wash, rinse, repeat, over the last 15 years and the stupidity just never ends As it stands the current Buffalo Bills still have two to three "maybe" players for the line this season or perhaps more depending on how the the other known scrubs on the roster pan out. Everything points to the fact that even if the Bills only want to be able to run the ball successfully with their new 10 mil per RB, that they had better have some top quality players at the OG position, and right now it doesn't look good with anyone on the roster. It looks like the power scheme the Bills want to run is the exact same scheme Kelly put in with the Eagles, and Mathis was on par to have another great season until his injury put him out 7 games last year. McCoy was "skittering" around to much without their star OG on the field. Again, to those that don't think an all pro upgrade at OG will make a difference need to take a long hard look at who the Cowboys drafted #1 last season, and the impact that single player had on their entire offense! Its a moot point anyway according to JW. I'm just venting because the Bills are passing on another real chance to help build a quality line. Anyway, like "The Dean" pointed out, Great teams (and GMs) make contacts like this happen.

uh, well... Someone brought up the name Drew Bledsoe who the Bills obtained from division rival NE Patriots in 2002, and in his first year in Buffalo went on to have a career year with 4,359 yards, 24 TD's along with his 4th trip to the pro bowl. The Bills went from 3-13 before Bledsoe to 8-8 while #11 in offense in 2002. Bledsoe did have a rep that if you hit him hard early in the game you could disrupt him enough that he could never get into a solid rhythm, and after that he would get "happy feet", and hear phantom sackers. BUT! If you couldn't get a solid hit on him early, and he was able to get into a solid rhythm he would tear that opposing team a new one. In 2002 the team drafted OT Mike D Williams out of Texas with the #4 overall pick to be the new LT, and were sorely disappointed as the best he could do was RT for four seasons. At that same draft the Vikings drafted OT Bryant McKinnie with the #7th pick who went on to become a pro bowler, and started every game at LT from 2003 to 2007. Simply bad scouting, and a bad pick? The point being the Bills already had some decent players on the line with all pro OG Ruben Brown, and wanted to further build a better line for Bledsoe under GM Tom Donahoe. Because of that sole bad draft pick the Bills basically stopped trying to build the line, and Bledsoe degraded further. Then in 2003 they went 6-10 while having the 30th ranked offense with Bledsoe having a bad year 11TD's vs 17 INT's. If go back and look at the starts of the O line players that 2003 season only one of the five lineman played a full 16 games. Anyway HC Greg Williams was fired after that 2003 season and the team hired Mike Mularkey. Now Mike & Tom decided that instead of building a better line for Bledsoe so he wouldn't get hit they wanted an old dog to learn new tricks, as they asked him to have a counter in his head to get the ball out within 4 seconds to either complete a pass or throw it away. That seemed to work somewhat because the team went 9-7 in 2004, and if the Bills beat the Steelers in the last regular season game they make the playoffs that year! Regardless the team moved on from Bledsoe in 2005 after drafting JP Losman the year previous, and then went 5-11 with Losman and Kelly Holcomb at QB. I would have to think that if the Bills had drafted McKinnie instead of Williams in 2002 the Bills probably make the playoffs with him at QB, and a different history is written. Dunno why the team gave up on finding a better LT back then. But they did, and it cost them wins IMO. Bledsoe went to the Cowboys after 2004 and went on to another 9-7 season under Parcells. You know what tho? Even after having a QB with a 4000 yard passing season and taking the Bills to a 9-7 season Bledsoe still earned the title " he sucks"! P.S. anyone who thinks that building a top O line isn't important these days needs to take a long look at the Cowboys as they used three of the last four first round picks on the O line the last few years. Last season they had the #1 ranked O line in the league with 476 attempts passing vs 508 attempts rushing / 2354 yards rushing. From 8-8 to 12-4 with the same QB, coaches and a 19th ranked defense.

My feeling exactly, and its just a darn shame the current FO doesn't share this opinion. Gonna be difficult for any QB to play well this year under the current circumstances IMO. The simple truth is the Bills haven't had a top line since the Jim Kelly days when they had three all pros on their line, or the AFL days of championships when every O linemen was an all pro. Its a big reason as to why no Bills QB has been able to elevate himself beyond the "he sucks" title the last 15 years. JMO

FWIW all NFL defenses usually come together quicker then the offense does. Typically defensive schemes are just so much easier to install IMO. The exceptions might be for teams like the Packers, Broncos, Patriots whom already have had their offenses installed years previous along with their elite QB's. The Bills have all new coaches, and are implementing an entire new offensive scheme for the entire offense to learn. Plus they don't have any solid continuity on the O line as it looks like they will be at the least starting two new OG's, and perhaps two OG's and a new RT. I really don't expect any QB to play really well in this new offense for at least a few weeks into the season. Hopefully the run game will be the dominate factor on offense at first.

I have no idea why most Bills fans think John Miller (a player with a 3-5th round draft grade) is the second coming of Evan Mathis? Take away reps from a 3rd rounder really? A guy who may not even see the field like the 2nd rounder last year, or even see the field and prove he isn't very good like the fifth rounder from last years draft. I just don't get why some fans think a Bills 3rd round pick is going to step on the field and instantly become one of the most dominate players at his position. In fact show me one third round draft pick the Buffalo Bills have made in the last ten years, or even under the current GM that have made the impact of a top starting player... much less an all pro. The simple fact is that Mathis is a eleven year vet who wasn't all that good in his first six seasons, and it wasn't until he got into the Andy Reid coaching system that he really developed into a great NFL player. Comparing the two players is just silly. Tell that to the Dallas Cowboys who drafted OG Zack Martin in the first round last year. Martin went on to become an all pro, and an offensive rookie of the year candidate while helping solidify last years best graded O line. The Bills drafted Eric Wood with a first round pick, and he has been a solid player at that position. If that statement is so true then WTF happened to the Bills 2nd rounder in OT Cyrus Kouandjio last year who never even saw the field on the leagues near worst O line? My belief is that if you want the best at any position you should look to the first round. (I also get that not every player can be a first round pick. The Bills just put a higher priority on the defensive side it seems, and seem to prefer to draft for the O line in the draft after the first rounds. Yet with this philosophy the Bills been at or near the bottom of the division) 2012, 9 of 11 players on defense drafted in the 1st or 2nd round, and were 26th under Dave Wannstedt. A Top ten defense equaled 6-10 in 2013. Last year a top 4 defense equaled 9-7 with the Patriots sitting Brady in their last game The really sad fact for me is the current FO regime agrees with you John.

Sad news indeed for me if JW is correct. Building a great O line should be the very first thing each new regime should look at, and yet all most of them have done is continually band-aid the situation year after year.

To the fans that think Mathis is to old or lost a step, and was released by Philly because of that need to read this article by CBS sports. 1. There was bad blood between the two sides. Mathis had wanted a new deal since the 2014 offseason and when the Eagles didn't make an offer, he ended up skipping the team's voluntary OTA sessions, something he did in both 2014 and 2015. The Eagles did offer Mathis a new deal in September 2014 that would've given him a raise of about $1 million a year, but the team later rescinded the offer after general manager Howie Roseman was "demoted" to executive VP of football operations. However, the Eagles did allow Mathis to look for a potential trading partner, but nothing came of that, something Chip Kelly made sure to let the general public know at the NFL Draft. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25212021/eagles-release-pro-bowl-og-evan-mathis-3-things-to-know The Bills might actually be able to develop EJ, Taylor or have more success with Cassel with a top rated O line in 2015, and adding Evan Mathis would most certainly help attain a top line.

A 3rd round rookie OG vs a seasoned vet who graded an amazing (+46.7) back in 2013 is a no brainer, and last season was on pace to be an all pro first teamer until an injury sidelined him a few games. McCoy had 1607 yards rushing in 2013, and Evans had a lot to do with that. By the same token when he was out with injuries last year is when McCoy was doing his "skittering" behind the line to find a hole. That "skittering" is a big reason why Kelly stated he wanted McCoy gone. (Spiller anyone?) I have little to no faith in a 3rd round rookie at OG considering the results of last years three linemen drafted. Whaley should find a way to make some cap room to sign this player, and in doing do would give the Bills a solid shot at the division title / playoff spot. I know I'd be much more enthused about the up coming season, and not just for the ability to run the ball effectively but to also protect the QB, and give them real time to make all the throws. JMHO

Just my take but I think they would have made him a higher decent offer before he became a free agent had he been a better run blocker, and who knows what happens if he had stayed in Buffalo. Clearly he was much better playing next to Glenn, and Wood. He was the one linemen that played in every game since being drafted. Whereas Eric Wood went on IR every year his first three years. Levitre still has started every game for the Titans the last two years, and he has yet to miss a single game. I also think the offensive coaching he got under Dowell Loggains, and now Jason Michael leave something to be desired. The Titans have used a lot of resources on their line the last few years, and it hasn't paid off very well. Doug Marrone, Nate Hackett are laughing at the Titans. Yea, no way he was worth what the Titans paid him. Now it looks a lot like Glenn might be headed for a similar big payday should the Bills decide to not even make him a decent offer, and decide he isn't worth keeping over the star defensive players. Was he worth that mega contract he got, heck no! Was he worth keeping at a reasonable price before he went into his contact year, heck yeah! From what I see is this team still puts more importance on keeping its defensive starting players then offensive

Read the quote above my avatar...

No matter who is named the starter this season I still don't have that much confidence anyone will do well considering the QB coach in David Lee. I think back to how badly Fitz looked after Lee had him work on his mechanics. Then looking how badly Geno Smith looked for most of last year. Anyway, here is hoping that someone steps up and plays well this season even if its Matt Simms.

Like I stated earlier I think part of the big reason why they let Levitre leave was that he wasn't considered a very good run blocker. Had he been graded as a better run blocker I think the team would have kept him, and paid him. This also might be the thinking with Glenn, as he isn't graded as a top run blocker either. Its a foolish thinking IMO considering how well the man pass blocks considering the lack of talent next to him. The LT position is the next most important position on offense other then QB IMO, and the Bills finally have another good one. Judging from the manure that Buddy Nix used to spread around about the O line players. That good line players can be found in the later rounds. That OG's are a dime a dozen, and an OT can be moved inside to play OG with success. How have those ideas worked out the last few years? But I also think that philosophy from the Bills FO has been around for quite sometime. How long did it take to replace Jason Peters, four years? The team never replaced all pro Ruben Brown. Its seems like its been all RB's, DB's in the first round the last 15 years Even Levite and Wood weren't the first picks in their respective rounds. Both a direct result of the Jets NT Kris Jenkins taking on both OG's and the center, and still getting to the QB. Jauron finally stopped having nightmares about Brady to Moss, and realized he needed to protect his QB better. So he drafted for the line instead of DB's. The Bills simply haven't put forth that much effort into building a top line since the Jim Kelly days with Wilford, Ritchter, Hull who were all pro bowlers or the AFL days when all five O linemen were all pros and they won championships. Like I said, the lack of a top line is probably a big reason as to why no QB since Kelly has been able to become something other then "he sucks!".

Accuracy is the key, and the guy is noted to be very inaccurate during games. What happens in practice is a different story, just ask Trent. I can't help but feel that someone in the Bills FO seriously dislikes EJ, and dunno why. If the Bills end up utilizing the running QB scheme "read option" then where does that leave Cassel?

We don't know that. This team let Andy Levitre walk at the end of 2012 and still hasn't adequately replaced him, except perhaps on paper a few times. For some unknown reason this team puts far more value on the defensive side of the line then they do the offensive side. Probably the biggest reason the team can't elevate the QB position to something other then "he sucks!"

The mere fact that Ryan has to leash Hughes, and pull him from practices make me worry that this another year of the penciled in paper lions. I get that everything looks promising on paper, and in T shirts, shorts. Same as last year when Marrone couldn't stop gushing about how good Henderson was all off season...until he wasn't. Had Richardson starting until week six, and was replaced by the revolving door who can't run block. Sorry I can share everyone's enthusiasm about this upcoming year because I don't see Miller, Henderson, Kouandjio becoming so good they have Glenn ride the bench as 2nd string, as the title in this thread suggests, simply absurd. Perhaps if they hired ex Bills O line coach Jim McNally back as a consultant I might be moved to think they might actually make some silk purses. What also bothers me is that Yolo is hinting that (despite not knowing exactly what they have on hand talent wise) the team may be preparing to let Glenn walk.

Did you happen to notice the words "experienced talent"? Whaley even stated after the team signed Harvin for 6 mill per that the team no longer had the financial resources to sign other free agents.

I get that, and the fact that he was a rookie was probably the only reason he is still on the roster. Sure O linemen can take a few years to develop, and regardless of what Marrone said a lot can be said about the continuity of having the same player next to you year after year. In my view fans are still somewhat reaching in their thinking that players who performed so bad they couldn't even see the field, or players who looked horrible last year will somehow step up to become instant reliable starters. The article Carucci wrote was moronic, and that a guy who was about the worst RT in the league will now become a valuable LT is preposterous. Now fans going on and on about how good the line will be, while some even supporting the nonsense that Carucci wrote. Will a new improved coaching staff help, you bet! Will a better player next to Henderson at OG help, you bet. I'm also hopeful a full off season program of training, and conditioning will help. Who really knows tho, and it looks like a gamblers throw of the dice to me. Forgive me John as I'm still bothered by the fact that after Whaley couldn't land Bulaga at RT, Evans at OG that he simply gave up trying to find quality experienced talent for those positions. 10 mill for a RB, and 6 mill for a WR, and yet the team still doesn't a top line to protect the average / below average QB's. The known worst unit on the team was about to get some solid upgrades, and then they didn't.

and when PFF graded the Bills at 13th overall in 2012 a lot of Bills fans were throwing that number around an awful lot, and that year most loved to quote PFF. Now some Bills fans don't like PFF because they seriously reflect on just how bad one unit on the team can be. Last season Glenn graded at (+6.5) is that grade wrong? Erik Pears at RG graded (-25.0) is that grade wrong? Pears is now gone from the team, and Henderson at (-29.9) should be a backup unless he somehow dramatically improves. We won't know that until the preseason / regular season starts, and when the players on the other side of the line don't hold anything back.

OK Just to throw some more light on Henderson from last season here is an excerpt from Estro's post http://forums.twobil...-in-depth-look/ "Cordy Glenn graded out with a +6.5 (1069 snaps). Solid enough. Seantrel Henderson graded out with a -29.9 (1086 snaps), downright putrid. He graded out very bad pass blocking and graded out as one of the worst run blocking T's in the league. Given how much Rex and Roman want to emphasize the run this year, you'd have to think they'll look to replace Henderson in the starting lineup. Any of the above players would be huge, huge, huge upgrades over Henderson. " There was a real reason as to why Doug Whaley was attempting to sign OT Bryan Bulaga away from the Packers, and in fact offered them more $$ then the Pack did. The Bills were also trying to obtain a decent OG in Jahri Evans. Now because the team failed in those efforts suddenly bad players or unknowns become instant reliable starters.

I posted that video to reflect just how badly Henderson was beaten play after play, and one could easily say he was a big factor in that loss. I also didn't mention that after the first time he was beaten badly the coaches should have noticed and helped him more with the TE, RB chipping on Mack. Part of the bigger problem with the team last season IMO. That Raiders defense finished the season with the 31st ranked in points allowed, and 21st in yards. Mack finished 3rd in defensive rookie of the year voting with 6 votes. CJ Mosley had 18 votes, Aaron Donald who won DRotY had 25. Mack also finished the season 92nd in tackles with 59, and 16 assists, and had only four sacks all season. He also didn't make the pro bowl. The guy is not the second coming of Lawrence Taylor just yet, although he looked like it against Henderson. The entire point was to show how bad this player really was in one game, and the thinking that he now resembles anything close to a quality LT is preposterous. Joe Thomas is a good OT, and from what I saw last season Henderson is not...and perhaps never will be.

This might be true, and for kinda the same reason the team let Levitre walk away. For the fact that Andy was a slightly one dimensional player in that he wasn't all that great a run blocker, and nether is Glenn. Levitre was by far the teams best pass blocker, and has been sorely missed the last few years. Glenn is far and away this teams best pass blocker, and with him being a good LT it makes him about the most prized player on offense. Marrone wasn't about continuity at all, and in fact he stated he thought that it didn't matter at all as long as you started the best five linemen. Well, we all now know how much Bills fans think of Saint Doug's ideas about the line. He fielded the worst line in the NFL for most of the season, and it finished at 30th with Urbik back at OG. Plus the team graded as the very worst run blocking unit in the NFL. So it was an entire horrific line effort, and not just Glenn. We also now have come to realize that Marrone was an idiot, and mostly got lucky obtaining a 9-7 season. The defense, (Schwartz) & Orton were the biggest reasons for that record IMO. What have we fans learned the last seven years since Jason Peters was traded away. That good pass blocking LT's aren't that easy to find, and it took the team four years to find another decent player for that position. Then I feel the team was exceedingly lucky to find Glenn in the second round. While Mike Mayock stated he thought Glenn would be a good tackle, he also thought he could be an elite / great OG. The problem with this thinking of moving Glenn to OG is that it leaves a gigantic void that can't be filled by off season penciled in paper heroes. The only thing Seantrel Henderson proved is that he looked like a 1st round steal on paper before the season started, and then looked like a seventh rounder during the regular season. Then when a playoff berth was on the line he folded like a deck chair on the titanic. Henderson may or may not improve as this team has a long history of drafting "maybe" line players in the later rounds. Demetress Bell, Ed Wang, Kyle Calloway, Chris Hairston, Zerbie Sanders, Mark Asper, Cyril Richardson. I don't see how a player who couldn't even get on the field for one of the worst units in the league last year can now be penciled in as a starter. Then moving Henderson to LT would be about the most disastrous move this team could make. The guy couldn't even handle RT, so that qualifies him as a starting LT? Shear idiocy! Personally I think its rather foolish to be penciling in a third round rookie at OG considering the past draft history of this team. Has anyone drafted after the second round besides the fifth round choice of Kyle Williams or the seventh round choice of Stevie Johnson made any sort of significant impact since 2006? What we also learned is that paying 100 million to a defensive end might sell a lot of season tickets, but it doesn't win games in itself. Even with three pro bowlers on the D line, and the number four overall defense the team still barely had a winning record. I gotta wonder if the FO will ever come to understand that today's game revolves around finding and protecting an elite QB, and not an elite DE, or DT, or WR, or RB! With all the non QB superstars on the team ...will the team even have the money to pay an elite QB should they find one?