Thurman#1

His problems the last two years were not only with his release. When you have an injury change one thing, other things in the biomechanical chain change to attempt to compensate with the problem. Yes, his mechanics had some problems. And yes, injuries were likely some of the problem. But there's no particular reason to think it was all of the problem beyond our perhaps wishing it was all of the problem. "Allen told reporters that this isn’t a broad change of his mechanics akin to what he implemented between the 2019 and 2020 seasons, but rather an adjustment sparked by discomfort he felt down the stretch of the 2023 campaign. “I wouldn’t call it a complete overhaul of my throwing motion, but definitely some things to work on and clean up, especially getting long with my arm and a little bit with my stride,” Allen said. “Just trying to clean that up—anytime you go through something like that, sometimes it’s going to feel really good, sometimes it’s not going to feel really good. It’s just like changing a swing in golf, but as long as you’re trusting it and you keep working on it each and every day, results will come." https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bills-qb-josh-allen-again-digitally-mapping-throwing-motion-to-tweak-mechanics/ar-BB1o6Gwj He worked with Hess in 2019 and 2020, and now before 2024. He had problems with injury changing his mechanics in the 2022 season as well, but after that season he didn't .... Hmmm.

No, his stance is not that he didn't work on his craft before this offseason. He specifically says so in the post you just replied to. We have a bunch of evidence of times when he worked on his form and such in the offseason he talked about it. Then he didn't talk about anything the last couple of years. Then he started again this year. Also the Bussing with the Boys podcast he essentially said last offseason that he didn't do anything but recover. That isn't absolute proof, but there's no absolute proof the other way either. Not proof, but it is indicative. He may well have been besotted with the new GF and let that affect him. That's a guess, not anything there's evidence for, but it's a reasonable guess, I think.

He worked with Palmer on different things in different years. Yes, particularly in year one they concentrated on synching lower and upper body, but it was more than that. They also both mentioned rotating the upper body more and using the rotation to provide power. They mentioned one or two other things as well. Not sure whether it was year two or three but they worked together on improving his longer throws in terms of dropping it into a bucket, increasing the angle so receivers had a bit more time to run under it rather than just line driving it out to guys running long routes. They worked on a lot of different things. Most likely he doesn't go to the QB summit anymore because he's rich enough and focused enough that he's no longer willing to share the time he spends with his coach with another bunch of guys. A very reasonable stance at this point in his career. I think the developing vs. refining thing isn't particularly useful here. He still works with Palmer and he wouldn't if Palmer was only good at developing young guys.

He was a bust. Nobody, but nobody, thought the Bills overdrafted him until they started to see his level of performance year after year. If the Bills hadn't traded up, they never would have gotten him. The level he performed at was not bad, really. But for a guy drafted in the top ten, he was a bust, compared to his perceived draft value. And that's what a bust is. Whitner is a guy who was overdrafted. Should never have been drafted that high, and if the Bills hadn't taken him there he seemed very likely to fall to the late 20s or so, at which point he'd have been a decent pick. Watkins wasn't going to fall if we didn't draft him.

It's not lazy. And you're spinning like crazy. Yes, if you go to other stats, Josh is crazy good. Overall, that's what he is, he's crazy good. Game-changing plays, whatever. He's fantastic. But that doesn't mean he didn't have too many INTs the last year or two. Most particularly last year. You don't want to have an INT % much over 2.0. Josh last year had a 3.1%. Way too high. Third-highest percentage in the league. Yes, a few others were too high also. But that doesn't make Josh being even higher than the guys you mentioned any more acceptable. Josh was 3.1%. Much too high. Tua was 2.5%. Purdy too. Still too high, but not nearly as bad. Mahomes was 2.3%, still a bit high, but awful. It was a problem. Josh admits it.

Yeah, I think he's likely to try. OL would be my guess. I'd say La'el but I don't think we'd get anything for him at this point. Whether he can manage it is questionable and will be so till we see how things look at training camp. If it happens, I'd guess OL.

Fair enough, but to say “we paid him to stay home and started winning games as soon as we did,” doesn't seem to line up with the facts. What does seem reasonable is that with him on the field for them they were losing, although it was the first three games, GNB, TAM and KAN. After that they sat him for two games and went 1-1 against Denver and the Commanders. Then they sent him to Miami and went: L Vikes W Raiders L Chargers L Saints W Panthers L Lions W Vikes W Lions L Browns W Cards W Falcons L Packers You can say reasonably that they turned things around the last six weeks, but he was long gone well before then. And those last six games were against some bad teams, outside of the Lions. I don't remember that game, but these days beating Detroit is a quality win. That seems like confirmation bias to me, not from you but from him. Or if not confirmation bias then maybe a very cheerful look at how things went after they got rid of Claypool. Which isn't to say that he wasn't a problem for them. I'd be willing to believe it. Something has kept him unproductive (after his first two years anyway) and on the move.

Badol, In fairness to that guy (you?), his guess as to when it would happen was closer than my guess. But I knew my guess was a guess. He was trying to claim that market value was already over $30M. It wasn't. There were no contracts in the range he was trying to say was market value. It was a dumb claim. It simply wasn't market value at that time.

I'm completely aware this is what you think. I come along, point out where you're wrong, you say the same dumb thing again or even several times, and I see, "ah, another worm herder," and do indeed vanish, because why bother, the point is made whether you know it or not. You're consistently wrong, and are unable to see it. I was right about the WR market at that time. As usual you are mis-stating my argument as well as the facts. It's your M.O., getting things wrong. At that time only an idiot would have argued that the WR market was above $30M/yr., since no WR contract of over $30M/yr. had ever been given. By definition. I only pointed out that it was a stone-cold fact that the WR market wasn't as high as he was trying to claim. I noted that market value would in the future go higher. And that nobody knew precisely when that would happen. That it could either be a while or very soon. But it hadn't happened yet. That anyone who said when that would happen was guessing. Simple facts. I was correct. Whoever the dolt was who thought his guess was a fact, was wrong. I don't remember whether or not it was you, but whoever said it was wrong. Confusing guesses with facts is simply poor thinking. And by the way, I didn't say a thing about nonsense in this thread, that's you bringing it up in a reply, bizarrely. What is your obsession with me? I didn't bother answering but you recently started discussing me in a thread I hadn't even entered, without even replying to me. Just started talking about me? Again, what's the obsession, dude? I'm decent-looking, but nothing special. I guess it's your right, but it seems sad. I'm living rent-free in your head. It's just weird.

True. But there are also some people here who absolutely curate threads, keeping them going for hundreds of pages when there just isn't much there. I tend to stay away, dropping in every few weeks to marvel at how much care the guy is spending on this limited topic. It's like someone trying to keep a fire alive by putting thousands of tiny twigs on it one at a time. The same guy will have 30% of the posts in a thread. Worth looking at and shaking your head. Whatever. It's what they want to do. It's like watching someone try to herd a worm on a trip from Kansas to LIncoln, Nebraska. Worth checking in on.

|"Have you ever noticed when you're driving that anyone driving slower than you is an idiot? And anyone driving faster than you is a maniac? You say, 'Look at this idiot here. Will you look at this idiot, just creepin' along. Woh! Look at that maniac go!' I mean it's a wonder we ever get anywhere at all with all the idiots and maniacs there are. Because there's certainly no-one driving at my speed. I don't let anyone drive at my speed. Do you? bull####! Someone's going my speed, ***** him, I'm gonna slow down, let him get up ahead a little bit, I can keep an eye on that ####### from back here." - George Carlin Some people will like to talk less than you. Others more. That's just the way it is. As you said, you're free to not open them, or to skip to another thread.

IMO La'el Collins isn't as safe here as you're assuming. I could certainly be wrong, but I thought so even before he has been getting his butt whipped at OTAs. We'll see.

Nah. Nobody says that. What has been said is that he doesn't work as much as he used to. Which still could be true. This bit of news is a good thing. But it doesn't disprove that some of his recent problems - some - may have been from not working the way he used to, the way the absolute hardest workers like Peyton and Brady do. In any case, this story is a good thing. We can't really tell, but he does seem to be working harder this year. Could well be true. He's talking more about what he's working on this year than he has recently. Is that just better use of P.R.? Or is he working harder? Dunno. I'm hopeful. Either way he's an excellent QB, but could he be better with harder work? Seems reasonable. Yes, agreed.

Milano's a JAG? Diggs was a JAG? Kincaid is a JAG? Hyde and Poyer? Tre White? Oliver? Douglas? Dawkins? That's just stupid. Nor do you know Steveson will be a JAG. It's possible. He might never be good enough to be a JAG. But he might be good. Hell, he might be terrific. Paying him practice squad money to find out isn't a bad idea or a misuse of resources at all.

Neal didn't play in college, but he played in high school. Still an amazing story, though. This thing with Steveson should be fun. Who knows? Maybe he'll make it worthwhile.

IMO Shakir has already shown that his skill set is larger than you're seeing. The last nine games of the season he had 444 yards. Over 17 games that's an 838 yard clip. He handled that just fine, a lot better than fine, actually. During those nine games, to put up those 444 yards, he received only 30 targets. And he caught 26 of those 30 targets, which is an 87% catch rate. Nor do I agree one bit with your idea that if we'd thrown less to Gabe he'd have received more money. That's a WAG. More likely you're right that someone would have figured that he'd have might be able to handle a featured role, but that he'd have gotten right around what he got, with that figure having looked like a bigger risk than it does now with less actual production to show. Christian Kirk didn't get Christian Kirk money because he was showcased less than Gabe was. More, in fact. Kirk is the 23rd highest paid WR in terms of AAY, and Darnell Mooney and Gabe Davis tied for 27th. The three guys who fell between (Tyler Lockett, Courtland Sutton and Jerry Jeudy) do not look like anything like a Gabe Davis with fewer opportunities, any more than Christian Kirk does.

Theoretically, yes, they could do all that. They could bring in an expensive guy like an Aiyuk or a Metcalf. But they've shown they don't want to. If they'd wanted to open up space they could just have moved most of Diggs' cap hit to next year. They didn't. The folks on here who always prefer kicking cans down the road are not in line with what Beane and the brain trust want. Nor with what is best for the long-term interests of the team. They were deeply constricted this year, and they want to make that a one-year thing rather than something they have to deal with every year. They're far more concerned about the 2025 cap than many on here are.

I've never heard anything about it either. Willing to believe it, but I've never seen anything. Plenty of guys without character concerns go the wandering mercenary route, particularly as they get older and develop injury concerns. It's one of the best ways for a player (if there is a legit hunger for what he brings) to maximize his career $$. Look at Darrelle Revis for one. Leonard Floyd the last three few years for another.

It could indeed. But it could also be something a lot of older vets feel about not really wanting to sign a contract till late so as to avoid OTAs and a lot of the off-season responsibilities. DEs do have to learn a playbook, but it's not anything wildly complicated.

Depending on the price, absolutely. If not him, someone who can sack the QB. I'm betting that he or another DE will be the main use this year of the $10M that will soon become available on the cap. They did it last year and while there are not as many DEs available late this year as there were last year, there are two or three reasonable possibilities and I think we'll be snagging one of them. Ogbah, Carl Lawson or Hughes maybe as alternatives depending who's still available and who they think can still rush the QB.

The film showed him getting separation a lot and not being thrown to. It also showed defenses recognizing that he was still a weapon and shading coverage his way. A lot. The way Ds covered him helped open up things for the rest of the offense. A lot. He may have showed a decline in physical skills. I'm not convinced, but it's certainly possible. But if so, it was anything but a huge decline. You may well be right that we've seen the last of his All Pro recognition, but I think that he still puts up at least another couple of 1200+ yard seasons. He's not a guy who depended on speed, more on smarts and route-running. That kind of thing lasts longer than pure speed / suddenness does. A thing of genius? No, not even close. The best he could reasonably get under the circumstances? Probably. Certainly a reasonable move, very possibly the best thing he could do given how things worked out.

"I don't need to go through all the reasons we decided to do that. I would say from a cap standpoint ..." So, no, not "simply a prudent cap move." He's not trying to pretend it wasn't a lot more than that.

He wasn't playing badly. Particularly for a 2nd year guy. He took a few more risks before the injury (7.77 YPA before, which would've put him around 6th highest in the league that year, and 6.95 YPA after, which would've been around 18th), so fewer risks at the same time as he started throwing a ton more INTs (4/2 TD:INT ratio before and 7/8 after) later in the year. It may not have been the injury, part of it may well have been just being figured out. But yeah, he played pretty decent before and not nearly so well after.

Didn't think of him till you said that, because I was thinking purely of on-field, but yeah, Beasley is #2 for me. A distraction, selfish, and all just at the time when his skills were leaving him. He went from one of my absolute favorites to my most disliked. But nobody will ever beat out Billy Joe Hobert. Publicly admitted he hadn't read his playbook and wasn't ready to play. Coach? Rexy. Never thought he was a good pick, but hoped he'd be OK. It became obvious after awhile that he was coasting, I thought. Second-worst? Rauch and Harvey Johnson for not building an offense around OJ Simpson. I mean, you have Simpson on the roster and you keep him returning kicks? Jeez.

Um, he did play through it. Did his absolute best, but he wasn't the same. He did an excellent job here last year, more than earned his money. He was a great pickup, good enough that he got a major raise in salary from the 9ers and a signing bonus of more than half his two year contract. Got 60% of his contract guaranteed because he did a great job here. So good we couldn't afford him again. But as noted above, we'll get a comp pick for him. He didn't say or imply anything bad about the Bills. Thanks and good luck to him.