Thurman#1

This. Poor performance? Yeah. Getting their butts kicked? Yup. Quitting, no, and it's a pretty silly question.

It's not too early for wild card talk. It's too early for wild card talk that's anything but hot air and raw guesswork. But if hot air and raw guesswork work for you, you shouldn't hold back. The time for wild card talk that's sensible is when fairly large group of teams have been eliminated and the division pictures start to become clear. But hey, some people like to try to imagine details of the world 20 years from now, and if that kind of nutsy guesswork makes you happy, there's nothing wrong with it.

Now, I like chicken wings as much as the next guy, but good gumbo ... man, I still salivate hard when I remember the gumbo we had at a little stand near the Zulu Parade during Mardi Gras. Cost me $7 bucks and was one of the best meals I've ever had.

Gee, what a surprise! Transplant's got a justification for every guy. Who'd have guessed that, except, you know, anyone who knows about his desperate crush on Tyrod and obsession with spinning things to make him look better. He thinks I missed his point, but that would be pretty hard ... his point is a bunch of pathetic justifications tied together by a guy incapable of seeing how the world looks to people without man-crushes on Tyrod. Look at the assumption he makes for Goff. He's incapable of understanding that rookie QBs often improve a whole ton before their second year and that rookie QBs often make a ton of mistakes. Can't be improvement in a young guy!!! No, no, it has to be all due to his surroundings!!! That's indeed how the world looks to a man desperate to spin Tyrod up and anyone who's not Tyrod down. I say Rivers, Cousins, Prescott and the rest are better than Tyrod. And he's arguing. Good grief. Again, you wouldn't find a GM to trade Tyrod for any of those guys, you just wouldn't.

I'm sure it was obvious to anyone with ESP and an interest in reading your mind. For the rest of us, "QBs" does not equal "starting QBs." Holy cow. What an insanely difficult question. 18 guys better than Tyrod? Wow, this might take me nearly three seconds of thought and a minute of typing to answer. 1. Tom Brady 2. Russell Wilson 3 Carson Wentz 4. Drew Brees 5. Matt Ryan 6. Kirk Cousins 7. Ben Roethlisberger 8. Jared Goff 9. Philip Rivers 10. Cam Newton 11. Derek Carr 12. Jameis Winston 13. Matthew Stafford 14. Andrew Luck 15. Dak Prescott 16. Andy Dalton 17. Deshaun Watson 18. Aaron Rodgers Had to cut Bridgewater/Stafford to get it down to 18 and there were a couple of others if I hadn't lost interest. There isn't a GM in the league who has one of these guys on his roster who wouldn't laugh in the face of someone trying to trade Tyrod Taylor for him. But it was more difficult than I thought. Took me nearly 30 seconds longer than I thought to type the list.

Yeah, it wouldn't make sense. But if you understand that it's his specific purpose to find a way, no matter how bizarre, to fit Tyrod in the same category as guys like Stafford, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Derek Carr, Eli, Dalton, Prescott, Andrew Luck and a few other similar guys it all makes sense. He's not trying put guys in sensible categories. He's trying to find categories that will allow him to spin things so Tyrod gets put in with franchise guys.

I overstated that. In one way it has a ton of utility. If you set out specifically to find a system that will put Tyrod Taylor in the same category as Stafford, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Derek Carr, Eli, Dalton, Prescott, Andrew Luck and a few other similar guys, this is pretty much the system you'd have to come up with.

"He walks in as a Day One starter, opposite Jerry Hughes. He can set the edge from the outside, he can rush speed-to-power, and that gives us two nice rushers off the edge." - Doug Whaley So, yeah, enough with the "He wasn't drafted to rush the passer" stuff. Yes, he was. He was drafted as a guy who could do a bunch of things, including rush the passer. But that doesn't make him a bust. Though perhaps overdrafted in terms of what he can do in this defense.

My guess is the Saints win this one going away. Say maybe nine points. We'll see. EDIT: Wow, was looking up some stuff about the Saints and saw that thing about Jon Dorebos and his heart surgery. I"m not on here anywhere near as often as I used to be and I'd missed that. Always seemed to be a great guy when here in Buffalo. Best wishes to him.

This is a poor and useless way to split QBs, or players in general. Trying to pretend that the vast majority of QBs have the ability/capability to be a franchise QB is like attaching a giant flashing light to your forehead saying "Doesn't get it." All you have to do is go look at the QBs on nfl.com who've put up stats this year. There are like 60 of them. It's not even a majority of them that have the possibility of being franchise guys, much less a "vast majority." The vast majority of those guys are the ones labelled journeymen, fringe starters or bridge QBs. A three-tier ranking system is about a half-step up from useless. But if you need to use a three-tier system, the third tier of journeymen, bridge QBs and fringe starters, backups and on their way out - is where most QBs would be. And that includes Tyrod. Elite is about five or six guys. There are maybe 12 -18 franchise guys including the elites, so tier two would be non-elite franchise guys, the ones who can feel comfortable that teams aren't actively trying to replace them. And everyone else is below that. Any useful system would have more tiers for guys who are extremely young and unknowns or guys with a decent chance of sliding up one day into the franchise tier and maybe career backups. Here's the guys listed at NFL.com as having stats this year: Tom Brady Alex Smith Russell Wilson Carson Wentz Drew Brees Matt Ryan Kirk Cousins Ben Roethlisberger Jared Goff Philip Rivers Josh McCown Cam Newton Carson Palmer Derek Carr Jacoby Brissett Jameis Winston Matthew Stafford Eli Manning Dak Prescott Andy Dalton Deshaun Watson Trevor Siemian Blake Bortles Tyrod Taylor Case Keenum Joe Flacco Marcus Mariota Aaron Rodgers Jay Cutler DeShone Kizer CJ Beathard Mike Glennon Kevin Hogan Mitchell Trubisky Sam Bradford Matt More Ryan Fitzpatrick Tom Savage Drew Stanton EJ Manuel Brett Hundley Brock Osweiler Matt Cassel Scott Tolzien Cody Kessler Ryan Mallett Robert Golden Nick Foles Derek Anderson Sean Mannion Cooper Rush Chad Henne Geno Smith ... and there are a bunch more who don't have stats yet this year. And you think the "vast majority" are Tier 2? That's utterly senseless. Any system that puts Matt Ryan and guys like Fitz and Nick Foles and Keenum and McCown in the same tier has no real utility or usefulness.

Brady's wide receivers aren't much. When Pats WRs leave, they tend to look a bunch less effective. They lose an Edelman and they don't skip a beat. Brady's targets are mostly a result of Brady's efforts. Amendola's no star and they did just as well last year without Cooks as this year with him. As for Kelce and Tyreek Hill they were both there last year and Smith wasn't as good as he has been this year. They aren't the reason for his improvement, though it's certainly true that having them there helps Alex Smith.

People should indeed talk about yards. So if we add up your figures here, they come to 1,343 plus 175 equals 1518. Twenty-three QBs this year have surpassed that number in passing alone, without adding in any run numbers whatsoever. Those QBs include McCown, Goff, Watson, Siemian, Keenum, Hell, even Jacoby Brissett. Add in the rushing numbers and Bortles also climbs over Tyrod. Tyrod's last two outings have been very good and pretty good, respectively. But as for the season, he's been Tyrod. But yeah, let's see what happens. I suspect things will get a bit better.

Interesting points, Wayne and GunnerBill. Should be really interesting to see how this plays out.

But points is NOT a statistic that isolates the offense. Not even close. It has huge input from the defense and STs. Quick example is that the defense put up seven points by Matt Milano, which gave the offense seven points of credit. But that's not even close to the total defensive impact on offensive points on this day. The defense and STs gave the offense three terrific drive starts in Oakland territory last game and the offense managed to turn them into two field goals and one TD. That looks real impressive if you only look at points, but when the drive starts were on the Oakland 14, the Oakland 41 and the Oakland 48, all of a sudden thirteen points looks pretty anemic.. They got the ball to start a drive on the Raiders 14 yard line with 13:06 left in the 3rd quarter, and managed to lose three yards and kick a 17 yard field goal. Way to go offense. Way to pile up those points!!!! Points are hugely important, but pretending they're only a measure of offense is kidding yourself. Field position is huge in points. Yards on the other hand much better tells you how efficiently the offense is moving.

2016 wasn't Taylor's fault, agreed. It was the fault of the Buffalo Bills, Tyrod was responsible for his share of the problem. They've got a lot of needs before they're going to be legitimate championship contenders. Franchise QB is probably the biggest one, IMHO. It's not the area where they have the weakest starter. That would be RT, probably, or RG or a few others. But an upgrade to a top ten or twelve QB is a bigger team upgrade than you could get any other way.

While he does look confused there, it wasn't his actions that caused the time to run out. The team couldn't get lined up before the half ended. The ball was placed down but two receivers on the opposite side of the field weren't set.

Nonsense. Sammy's attitude was fine. Both guys are great locker room guys with injury concerns. Watkins more so, of course. Assuming they franchised Watkins, though, his salary next year would have been twice what they'll pay Benjamin, That's much more likely the big factor.

Know what happens to GMs who suck? They lose a lot games. An awful lot. Belichick is a damn good GM. Unfortunately. Having said that, he makes mistakes like anyone else, and so far that trade you mention appears to be one, but it's hard to say that when the year they made it they won the Lombardi. And their defense was coming together the past couple of weeks. Awful early on, they've improved, which is the M.O. of the Pats when they start awful. Unfortunately. Also worth noting that Pats defenses are generally bend but don't break models, which means they don't end up high in yards-based rankings. It'll be interesting to see how they manage after this injury. It does appear to be a big problem for them. Um. Hunh? They've been very happy with Gillislee. We'll see about Gimore when he gets back.

Is this actually non-sarcastic? Appears 90% kidding, but ... Anyway, they wasted time on him. If they can get something for him they should. He probably got a few hundred bucks too for his time at camp or activities. They've got his rights. If he isn't going to retire, he should be here.

Let me repeat. Try reading carefully. I'll help. Yes, a defensive TD/INT ratio of more than two is indeed bad pass defense. The reason people don't spend a lot of time on passing TDs per game as a stat is because it comes down to game situations, field position, time on the clock and a whole ton of other things. It only means much if it's extremely high or extremely low. On top of how many passes are thrown, a lot of it comes down to field position and whether teams close in like to run or not on short yardage. That's why people go to the ratio a lot, More indicative. INT percentage means a ton more than TD percentage. Teams don't care whether they score by pass or by run. Tyrod's TDs/game is just about 1.25. If 1.4 was low, how about that? But he doesn't get attacked for it, for good reason. His TD/INT percentage is quite good, and he does get credit for that. But again, those four teams have given up 31 TDs and 11 INTs. Which is really quite bad.

Yes, a defensive TD/INT of more than two is indeed bad pass defense.

21 TDs and 10 INTs. Which averages to ... ungood pass defense. Far from terrific as he and you are trying to paint them.

No, defenses are not ranked by defensive passer rating. But yeah, PASSING DEFENSES are very reasonably indeed ranked by passer rating. But if you want to leave out Carolina, fine. The other three passing defenses allowed 21 TDs and 10 INTs.

He's part of our problem, no question. And it wasn't real good evidence. Centrifuged and spun within an inch of it's life, as usual ... Wanted to see those 11 games Transplant was talking about, and wondered why he was including Flacco (not that great), Dak (very young) and Deshaun Watson (extremely young), wondering if it was to adjust the numbers down a bit so Tyrod would be more competitive. Yup. Not to mention that Transplant left out Wentz, who had a great game. If you’re going to include Dak and Watson, you should include Wentz. Why was he left out? Oh, wait, leaving him out helped Transplant’s already weak argument. Here are the four teams referred to, their schedules, and the stats for each game: Cincy (played Baltimore, Houston, GB, Cleveland and Buffalo) Flacco 9/17, 121 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT 71.0 Deshaun Watson (in his 2nd pro game) 15/24, 125 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 75.9 Rodgers 28/42, 313 yards, 3 TDs, I INT 102.6 Tyrod 20/37, 166 yards 1 TD, 1 INT, 63.6 Denver (played Chargers, Dallas, Buffalo, Raiders and Giants) Rivers 22/33, 192 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT 99.6 Dak 30/50, 238 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs, 68.6 Tyrod 20/26, 213 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 126.0 Carr 10/18, 143 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs 100.0 before his injury Carolina (played SF, Buffalo, New Orleans, NE, Detroit and Philly) Tyrod 17/25, 125 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 79.6 Brees 22/29, 220 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 131.4 Brady 32/45, 307 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 104.6 Stafford 23/35, 229 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 141.8 Wentz (why’s he left out? Oh, cuz he would’ve hurt Transplant’s case) 16/30, 222 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 110.7 Atlanta (played Chicago, Green Bay, Detroit, Buffalo and Miami) Rodgers 33/50, 343 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 90.7 Stafford 25/45, 264 yards, 1 TDs, 0 INTs, 80.2 Tyrod 12/20, 182 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 106.7 Putting those 12 games - including Wentz's - in order, by passer rating … 1) Stafford 23/35, 229 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 141.8 2) Brees 22/29, 220 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 131.4 3) Wentz (why again is he left out? Oh, cuz he would’ve hurt Transplant’s case) 16/30, 222 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 110.7 4) Brady 32/45, 307 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 104.6 5) Rodgers 28/42, 313 yards, 3 TDs, I INT 102.6 6) Carr 10/18, 143 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs 100.0 before his injury 7) Rivers 22/33, 192 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT 99.6 8) Rodgers 33/50, 343 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 90.7 Tyrod’s total as computed by Transplant goes here, with a 90.5 9) Stafford 25/45, 264 yards, 1 TDs, 0 INTs, 80.2 10) Deshaun Watson (in his 2nd pro game) 15/24, 125 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 75.9 11) Flacco 9/17, 121 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT 71.0 12) Dak 30/50, 238 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs, 68.6 These pass defenses simply don't come out looking good from this analysis. Not that you'd have been told that by Transplant. That’s why he didn’t spell it out game by game as I’ve done here. Most of these games were very good, And the QBs who brought down the average were two guys in their first two years (Watson’s a rookie in his second game, actually) and Joe Flacco (who a lot of people might want to exchange for Tyrod but not many would consider any kind of a big step up). Stafford had one game at 80.2 but another at 141.8, so I don’t think you could count him as bringing the average down. Also cracks me up that Transplant’s trying to use total yards here as an average for these guys when one of the QBs got injured early in the game (Carr, leaving Manuel to throw 17 more passes). Of course Carr didn’t have a lot of total yards. Take out Carr’s partial game and Transplant’s group averaged 239.2 yards per game (which would be 12th in the NFL) against those four defenses while Tyrod averaged 172 (which would be 28th). Wanna argue against using total yards at all? Fair enough, but it wasn’t me who brought them up, it was Transplant, trying to compare Tyrod’s average to the group average, including Carr’s partial game. And this is all leaving out Wentz’s excellent game, and there’s a QB most of us would trade for Tyrod in a flat tenth of a second.

Quick quiz question. The four teams Tranplant mentions in his original post as being such terrific defenses ... how many of them are in the top ten of defensive passer rating this year? Any guesses? Uno. Cincy at #6. #6 Cincy 73.3 #14 Atlanta 86.6 #16 Denver 89.5 #26 Carolina 100.0 These aren't four terrific pass defenses. The Panthers have allowed 10 TDs and 1 INT. Together, all four teams have allowed a total of 31 TDs and 11 INTs.