Thurman#1

Dude, enough with this nonsense. A Bills fan is someone who says he's a Bills fan, period. There are no litmus tests or fanhood threshholds. If he says he's a Bills fan he's a Bills fan.

No apology necessary, and as for senior moments, mine are probably well into six figures.

May have been a typo on your part, but for the record if they franchise him again it'll be $34.5 mill, not $44. Still a lot, I know, but not $44. I wouldn't mind us picking him up if Washington is dumb enough to let him go. Cousins has said consistently it's not all about the money, it's also about respect and feeling wanted. Washington has been contentious all the way. I'd give him $25 or $26 mill a year with a long contract and a strong guarantee. Doing that would mean we could use all our draft capital on OLs, rush specialists, TEs and all the various other things that they need. We could get them instead of trying to trade up for a QB. Cousins is no healthy Andrew Luck, but might be a lot more acquireable.

Dunno where we sign up,, but wherever it is, we should sprint there with a pack of 12 pens in case 11 are dry. The shoulder is a concern. The contract too. But your other points aren't really legit. One injury isn't injury-prone. He missed zero games in his first three years. His only injury is this one. They should have got him surgery immediately. And he was out-performing the hype till this injury. As for a turnover machine, he's a bit of a gunslinger, so you take that risk, but he's also a TD machine. Yeah, he gets huge money. He was very much worth it up till the injury. You've got two points there, not five. Yup, he's injured but plenty of QBs have come back from that surgery and performed well. Still, it's a risk. And yeah he's got a very high salary. Excellent QBs generally end up getting one and they're still very much worth it. I'd snap him up in a second, and I think all but about eight or ten teams that already have strong franchise guys would do the same.

Jets 4-5 Panthers 6-3 Broncos 3-5 Falcons 4-4 Bengals 3-5 Bucs 2-6 Raiders 4-5 Jets 4-5 Teams we've played: 30-38 Saints 6-2 Chargers 3-5 Chiefs 6-3 Pats 6-2 Colts 3-6 Dolphins 4-4 Pats 6-2 Dolphins 4-4 Teams we're gonna play: 38-28 Yup, the wins look less impressive, absolutely. Still not really sure what this team is. So, you would be no more impressed this year by whipping the Eagles than by squeaking past the Browns? Come on, nobody's talking about the value of a win. You're right the value of every win is the same but the impressiveness can vary wildly. That's true of any team in any year.

Nobody said he can't throw over the middle, at least not after any watching of tape. What happens is people watch the tape and say he has problems over the deep and intermediate middle, that he doesn't go there nearly as often as other QBs do. Then Tyrod's jock sniffers start saying, "People say Tyrod can't throw over the middle," and the whole argument is shifted. It all comes from Tyrod's most desperate supporters ignoring what's specifically been said. He throws fine and often to the short middle. Always has. Nobody should ever argue that. As for being a franchise QB, nah. Agreed he had a pretty solid game, though. The one before that was very good. But a game or two doesn't make a franchise QB. It's high level performance with consistency that does that. Tyrod has always had some very good games. And some very bad ones.

Or an unproductive passing offense, in which the QB has been a part of the problem. Certainly not the whole problem, but a part of it. ... wait ... a mediocre defense? Jeez. The whole rest of the team has been an awful lot more mediocre than the defense.

This headline was misleading. I thought they'd put out some kind of statement. Please, in the future, make the headline clearer.

This. Poor performance? Yeah. Getting their butts kicked? Yup. Quitting, no, and it's a pretty silly question.

It's not too early for wild card talk. It's too early for wild card talk that's anything but hot air and raw guesswork. But if hot air and raw guesswork work for you, you shouldn't hold back. The time for wild card talk that's sensible is when fairly large group of teams have been eliminated and the division pictures start to become clear. But hey, some people like to try to imagine details of the world 20 years from now, and if that kind of nutsy guesswork makes you happy, there's nothing wrong with it.

Now, I like chicken wings as much as the next guy, but good gumbo ... man, I still salivate hard when I remember the gumbo we had at a little stand near the Zulu Parade during Mardi Gras. Cost me $7 bucks and was one of the best meals I've ever had.

Gee, what a surprise! Transplant's got a justification for every guy. Who'd have guessed that, except, you know, anyone who knows about his desperate crush on Tyrod and obsession with spinning things to make him look better. He thinks I missed his point, but that would be pretty hard ... his point is a bunch of pathetic justifications tied together by a guy incapable of seeing how the world looks to people without man-crushes on Tyrod. Look at the assumption he makes for Goff. He's incapable of understanding that rookie QBs often improve a whole ton before their second year and that rookie QBs often make a ton of mistakes. Can't be improvement in a young guy!!! No, no, it has to be all due to his surroundings!!! That's indeed how the world looks to a man desperate to spin Tyrod up and anyone who's not Tyrod down. I say Rivers, Cousins, Prescott and the rest are better than Tyrod. And he's arguing. Good grief. Again, you wouldn't find a GM to trade Tyrod for any of those guys, you just wouldn't.

I'm sure it was obvious to anyone with ESP and an interest in reading your mind. For the rest of us, "QBs" does not equal "starting QBs." Holy cow. What an insanely difficult question. 18 guys better than Tyrod? Wow, this might take me nearly three seconds of thought and a minute of typing to answer. 1. Tom Brady 2. Russell Wilson 3 Carson Wentz 4. Drew Brees 5. Matt Ryan 6. Kirk Cousins 7. Ben Roethlisberger 8. Jared Goff 9. Philip Rivers 10. Cam Newton 11. Derek Carr 12. Jameis Winston 13. Matthew Stafford 14. Andrew Luck 15. Dak Prescott 16. Andy Dalton 17. Deshaun Watson 18. Aaron Rodgers Had to cut Bridgewater/Stafford to get it down to 18 and there were a couple of others if I hadn't lost interest. There isn't a GM in the league who has one of these guys on his roster who wouldn't laugh in the face of someone trying to trade Tyrod Taylor for him. But it was more difficult than I thought. Took me nearly 30 seconds longer than I thought to type the list.

Yeah, it wouldn't make sense. But if you understand that it's his specific purpose to find a way, no matter how bizarre, to fit Tyrod in the same category as guys like Stafford, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Derek Carr, Eli, Dalton, Prescott, Andrew Luck and a few other similar guys it all makes sense. He's not trying put guys in sensible categories. He's trying to find categories that will allow him to spin things so Tyrod gets put in with franchise guys.

I overstated that. In one way it has a ton of utility. If you set out specifically to find a system that will put Tyrod Taylor in the same category as Stafford, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Derek Carr, Eli, Dalton, Prescott, Andrew Luck and a few other similar guys, this is pretty much the system you'd have to come up with.

"He walks in as a Day One starter, opposite Jerry Hughes. He can set the edge from the outside, he can rush speed-to-power, and that gives us two nice rushers off the edge." - Doug Whaley So, yeah, enough with the "He wasn't drafted to rush the passer" stuff. Yes, he was. He was drafted as a guy who could do a bunch of things, including rush the passer. But that doesn't make him a bust. Though perhaps overdrafted in terms of what he can do in this defense.

My guess is the Saints win this one going away. Say maybe nine points. We'll see. EDIT: Wow, was looking up some stuff about the Saints and saw that thing about Jon Dorebos and his heart surgery. I"m not on here anywhere near as often as I used to be and I'd missed that. Always seemed to be a great guy when here in Buffalo. Best wishes to him.

This is a poor and useless way to split QBs, or players in general. Trying to pretend that the vast majority of QBs have the ability/capability to be a franchise QB is like attaching a giant flashing light to your forehead saying "Doesn't get it." All you have to do is go look at the QBs on nfl.com who've put up stats this year. There are like 60 of them. It's not even a majority of them that have the possibility of being franchise guys, much less a "vast majority." The vast majority of those guys are the ones labelled journeymen, fringe starters or bridge QBs. A three-tier ranking system is about a half-step up from useless. But if you need to use a three-tier system, the third tier of journeymen, bridge QBs and fringe starters, backups and on their way out - is where most QBs would be. And that includes Tyrod. Elite is about five or six guys. There are maybe 12 -18 franchise guys including the elites, so tier two would be non-elite franchise guys, the ones who can feel comfortable that teams aren't actively trying to replace them. And everyone else is below that. Any useful system would have more tiers for guys who are extremely young and unknowns or guys with a decent chance of sliding up one day into the franchise tier and maybe career backups. Here's the guys listed at NFL.com as having stats this year: Tom Brady Alex Smith Russell Wilson Carson Wentz Drew Brees Matt Ryan Kirk Cousins Ben Roethlisberger Jared Goff Philip Rivers Josh McCown Cam Newton Carson Palmer Derek Carr Jacoby Brissett Jameis Winston Matthew Stafford Eli Manning Dak Prescott Andy Dalton Deshaun Watson Trevor Siemian Blake Bortles Tyrod Taylor Case Keenum Joe Flacco Marcus Mariota Aaron Rodgers Jay Cutler DeShone Kizer CJ Beathard Mike Glennon Kevin Hogan Mitchell Trubisky Sam Bradford Matt More Ryan Fitzpatrick Tom Savage Drew Stanton EJ Manuel Brett Hundley Brock Osweiler Matt Cassel Scott Tolzien Cody Kessler Ryan Mallett Robert Golden Nick Foles Derek Anderson Sean Mannion Cooper Rush Chad Henne Geno Smith ... and there are a bunch more who don't have stats yet this year. And you think the "vast majority" are Tier 2? That's utterly senseless. Any system that puts Matt Ryan and guys like Fitz and Nick Foles and Keenum and McCown in the same tier has no real utility or usefulness.

Brady's wide receivers aren't much. When Pats WRs leave, they tend to look a bunch less effective. They lose an Edelman and they don't skip a beat. Brady's targets are mostly a result of Brady's efforts. Amendola's no star and they did just as well last year without Cooks as this year with him. As for Kelce and Tyreek Hill they were both there last year and Smith wasn't as good as he has been this year. They aren't the reason for his improvement, though it's certainly true that having them there helps Alex Smith.

People should indeed talk about yards. So if we add up your figures here, they come to 1,343 plus 175 equals 1518. Twenty-three QBs this year have surpassed that number in passing alone, without adding in any run numbers whatsoever. Those QBs include McCown, Goff, Watson, Siemian, Keenum, Hell, even Jacoby Brissett. Add in the rushing numbers and Bortles also climbs over Tyrod. Tyrod's last two outings have been very good and pretty good, respectively. But as for the season, he's been Tyrod. But yeah, let's see what happens. I suspect things will get a bit better.

Interesting points, Wayne and GunnerBill. Should be really interesting to see how this plays out.

But points is NOT a statistic that isolates the offense. Not even close. It has huge input from the defense and STs. Quick example is that the defense put up seven points by Matt Milano, which gave the offense seven points of credit. But that's not even close to the total defensive impact on offensive points on this day. The defense and STs gave the offense three terrific drive starts in Oakland territory last game and the offense managed to turn them into two field goals and one TD. That looks real impressive if you only look at points, but when the drive starts were on the Oakland 14, the Oakland 41 and the Oakland 48, all of a sudden thirteen points looks pretty anemic.. They got the ball to start a drive on the Raiders 14 yard line with 13:06 left in the 3rd quarter, and managed to lose three yards and kick a 17 yard field goal. Way to go offense. Way to pile up those points!!!! Points are hugely important, but pretending they're only a measure of offense is kidding yourself. Field position is huge in points. Yards on the other hand much better tells you how efficiently the offense is moving.

2016 wasn't Taylor's fault, agreed. It was the fault of the Buffalo Bills, Tyrod was responsible for his share of the problem. They've got a lot of needs before they're going to be legitimate championship contenders. Franchise QB is probably the biggest one, IMHO. It's not the area where they have the weakest starter. That would be RT, probably, or RG or a few others. But an upgrade to a top ten or twelve QB is a bigger team upgrade than you could get any other way.

While he does look confused there, it wasn't his actions that caused the time to run out. The team couldn't get lined up before the half ended. The ball was placed down but two receivers on the opposite side of the field weren't set.

Nonsense. Sammy's attitude was fine. Both guys are great locker room guys with injury concerns. Watkins more so, of course. Assuming they franchised Watkins, though, his salary next year would have been twice what they'll pay Benjamin, That's much more likely the big factor.