Mark VI Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I'd send VABills. He'd handle this the proper way. ( Lighter fluid and a match) Then I'd be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Well, there goes GG's credibility. 112883[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I'd send VABills. He'd handle this the proper way. ( Lighter fluid and a match) Then I'd be happy. 112942[/snapback] Yeah but, Arafat never affected you personaly did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 If there is one person's view on this forum that i respect..its yours.... 112875[/snapback] First NJSue...and now this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 First NJSue...and now this? 112960[/snapback] Maybe I should challenge Rubeo for chairmanship of the Let's Get Along Crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Maybe I should challenge Rubeo for chairmanship of the Let's Get Along Crew. 112966[/snapback] Traitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I respect your ideas more...somebody on here thinks we are lovers...your ass is too big for me...sorry 112888[/snapback] Does that mean Teresa and Dona are available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VabeachBledsoefan Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 Does that mean Teresa and Dona are available? 112976[/snapback] Yes but realize they come as a pair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Traitor. 112973[/snapback] I told you. I'm in a great mood today. There's a new dawn. It's time for reconciliation. I'll bring back NJSue. I'll bring VBBF around enough that he'll make Ed look like the Dali Lama. And I guarantee that after Tenny visits with Kuchma's criminals, he'll be buying grouper sammiches for the whole PPP crew. Alas, I don't think I can do anything with Boomer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Yes but realize they come as a pair 112984[/snapback] Never mind. (Disclaimer: they are both sweet, sweet gals, I'm just kidding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Maybe they'll ask a former President to go. That way the Administration's not involved but it couldn't be construed negatively if a guy like Carter or Clinton, both of whom worked hard on brokering peace in that hellhole, were to attend. Of course both are private citizens and could go if they wanted anyway I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Madonna...............and they can keep her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph the Dog Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 My vote goes to Triumph the Dog. 112814[/snapback] It would be my pleasure to POOP on his dead body!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Dan Rather or Barbara Streisand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 That is an excellent question and one I am sure has been the subject of some teeth gnashing at the White House and State Department. I think we should send whoever it is besides the Prez and the Veep that would send the strongest message that we take the Palestinian claim to a homeland very seriously. We do not need to convince Israel of our sincerity, objectivity nor the depth of our committment to their security. We do have a long way to go to convince Palestinians and other Arabs that they can trust us as a mediator not to sell them out or just parrott whatever positioin Israel would like us to take. This decision has to be made with the future in mind and not based on whether we think Arafat was the worst criminal of the last 40 years or a nationalist patriot or something inbetween. 112920[/snapback] Yes, let's legitimize murderers, terrorists and thugs everywhere. Let's send someone who will wax poetic about how wonderful a person Arafat was, how he was such a universally misunderstood guy. How he was a visionary and brought the whole world together in love and harmony. How he so adroitly managed the PA's finances to the benefit of his own people. How he stopped radicals like Hamas and Islamic Jihad from killing women and children. Let's all sing Yassir Arafat's praises! Send Jimmy Carter!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I'm disgusted we have to send anyone, frankly. But...setting emotion aside, and recognizing the practical matter of representation at the funeral demonstrating a level of recognition of the PA that could help foster peace in the region...Armitage would be a reasonable choice. Dan Kurtzer (US Ambassador to Israel) would send an interesting message to both Israel and the PA. And sending John Danforth would be entertaining for the confusion it would cause. My preference emotionally, though, would be to send General Michael W. Hagee...because Arafat deserves to be escorted to Hell by a Marine... 112837[/snapback] He might start firing at the SOB just to make sure he is dead. Hell send PX Kelley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I'd send VABills. He'd handle this the proper way. ( Lighter fluid and a match) Then I'd be happy. 112942[/snapback] !@#$ that. Claymores. I want to make sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Travis Henry. 112903[/snapback] What the hell, he isn't doing anything else right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I beg to differ. You show exactly what you thought of Arafat by sending in Travis Henry. But in your first meeting with Abbas next week, you send Powell. That's the message. 112931[/snapback] Arabs across the region will be watching the funeral, they won't be watching a diplomatic meeting next tuesday. Arafat is what passed for a moderate among his people. Send a flunky to the funeral will send the message that we simply don't care about Palestinians, never have and never will. We will confirm the worst lies told about us by the worst terrorists among them. Sending Powell won't alienate Israel but may buy us some credibility where we currently have less than none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Arabs across the region will be watching the funeral, they won't be watching a diplomatic meeting next tuesday. Arafat is what passed for a moderate among his people. Send a flunky to the funeral will send the message that we simply don't care about Palestinians, never have and never will. We will confirm the worst lies told about us by the worst terrorists among them. Sending Powell won't alienate Israel but may buy us some credibility where we currently have less than none. 113221[/snapback] And sending Powell will also legitimize the view that we're willing to bend over backwards to placate terrorist organizations, including sending the Secretary of State. You give terrorists legitimacy when you acknowledge them and try and converse with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Arabs across the region will be watching the funeral, they won't be watching a diplomatic meeting next tuesday. Arafat is what passed for a moderate among his people. Send a flunky to the funeral will send the message that we simply don't care about Palestinians, never have and never will. We will confirm the worst lies told about us by the worst terrorists among them. Sending Powell won't alienate Israel but may buy us some credibility where we currently have less than none. 113221[/snapback] The flip side of that being: Arafat was an avowed terrorist, and sending Powell potentially sends the message to other terrorist groups that it's possible to become a "good" or at least "acceptable" terrorist to the US government if you work at it long enough. I don't think that's the message we want to be sending either. And of course, there's the flip-side to that flip-side: everyone else is likely to send very senior officials if not actual heads-of-state, and you don't want to send someone that's going to appear grossly inequal to them, as you run the risk of other nations believing we're putting them on a grossly inferior level vis-a-vis us. Really, it's a very fine line. As a practical matter, I don't think we should send someone as senior as Powell for a great variety of reasons...yet, I don't think we can send some junior flunky, either. My gut feeling is it'll end up being Powell who goes...but I'd be far more comfortable with Armitage, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 !@#$ that. Claymores. I want to make sure. 113205[/snapback] Eat pork sausage off the end of it, before plunging it deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Arabs across the region will be watching the funeral, they won't be watching a diplomatic meeting next tuesday. Arafat is what passed for a moderate among his people. Send a flunky to the funeral will send the message that we simply don't care about Palestinians, never have and never will. We will confirm the worst lies told about us by the worst terrorists among them. Sending Powell won't alienate Israel but may buy us some credibility where we currently have less than none. 113221[/snapback] Arabs don't need any more reasons to hate the US on top of the daily bombardment of visuals on Al Jazeera. THe Arab Street already believes that the US is a tool of devil incarnate, Israel. Showing Powell at the funeral won't change the perception. But whether it will be shown on hate TV or not, actual meetings of top US admin with new Palestinian leaders will send a strong message to people who matter (including Hamas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Yes, let's legitimize murderers, terrorists and thugs everywhere. Let's send someone who will wax poetic about how wonderful a person Arafat was, how he was such a universally misunderstood guy. How he was a visionary and brought the whole world together in love and harmony. How he so adroitly managed the PA's finances to the benefit of his own people. How he stopped radicals like Hamas and Islamic Jihad from killing women and children. Let's all sing Yassir Arafat's praises! Send Jimmy Carter!! 113148[/snapback] What are you talking about? Did I say he was misunderstood? Did I say he brought the world together? Did I say he stopped radicals? Did I say he was wonderful? Did I even suggest that our rep should make a speech of any kind? The answer to all that is: no. What I did say was that what happens tommorow is more important than anyone's opinion of the now dead Arafat. It is a question of diplomacy that is all. I clearly pointed out that it was a difficult question and made no claim to owning all the wisdom on the issue. In response, I get this hysterical rant from you. Why do you bother? Seriously, what do you get out of this kind of response? There is no information being exchanged here, there is nothing being learned. You might as well be flashing old ladies in the park. Other than whatever preverse enjoyment you get out of it, there really is no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 You might as well be flashing old ladies in the park. 113249[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 You might as well be flashing old ladies in the park. 113249[/snapback] I'll have to remember that line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 The flip side of that being: Arafat was an avowed terrorist, and sending Powell potentially sends the message to other terrorist groups that it's possible to become a "good" or at least "acceptable" terrorist to the US government if you work at it long enough. I don't think that's the message we want to be sending either. And of course, there's the flip-side to that flip-side: everyone else is likely to send very senior officials if not actual heads-of-state, and you don't want to send someone that's going to appear grossly inequal to them, as you run the risk of other nations believing we're putting them on a grossly inferior level vis-a-vis us. Really, it's a very fine line. As a practical matter, I don't think we should send someone as senior as Powell for a great variety of reasons...yet, I don't think we can send some junior flunky, either. My gut feeling is it'll end up being Powell who goes...but I'd be far more comfortable with Armitage, myself. 113231[/snapback] I know we see him as an "avowed terrorist" but the people we are trying to make headway with sees him as a moderate, a guy who actually tried to sincerely work with us and Israel. Sending someone like Powell won't signal to them that there are good terrorists because to them he is not a terrorist. Besides, given our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, I don't think we are in danger any time soon of terrorists thinking we are okay with it. I don't agree with their view of him as a patriot and a moderate, not even close but the reality is that is what they see him as and we aren't going to ever, ever change their minds on that. Problem is, we have to have some credibility with them if we are to be an effective mediator. Fine line, I know but there aren't many perfect answers or solutions without drawbacks in that area of the world. Anyway, glad it isn't my decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Arabs don't need any more reasons to hate the US on top of the daily bombardment of visuals on Al Jazeera. THe Arab Street already believes that the US is a tool of devil incarnate, Israel. Showing Powell at the funeral won't change the perception. But whether it will be shown on hate TV or not, actual meetings of top US admin with new Palestinian leaders will send a strong message to people who matter (including Hamas) 113240[/snapback] That is certainly a valid viewpoint but if we are to ever try and counter what they see on Al Jazeera, we have to start somewhere. Why wouldn't Hamas see that the US is renewing its attempts to cultivate moderates among the Palestinian leadership, or potential leaders anyway which would, if successful, leave them out in the cold? It is a crazy place. Up is down, down is up and sideways is crossways. No course of action would be much better than slightly more advantageous than another. Thanks for the rational discussion by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Thanks for the rational discussion by the way. 113274[/snapback] Screw you snapperhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I know we see him as an "avowed terrorist" but the people we are trying to make headway with sees him as a moderate, a guy who actually tried to sincerely work with us and Israel. Sending someone like Powell won't signal to them that there are good terrorists because to them he is not a terrorist. Besides, given our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, I don't think we are in danger any time soon of terrorists thinking we are okay with it. I don't agree with their view of him as a patriot and a moderate, not even close but the reality is that is what they see him as and we aren't going to ever, ever change their minds on that. Problem is, we have to have some credibility with them if we are to be an effective mediator. Fine line, I know but there aren't many perfect answers or solutions without drawbacks in that area of the world. Anyway, glad it isn't my decision. 113264[/snapback] I see - and agree completely with - your point about whoever we send being a sign of our future intentions wrt the PA, rather than our past. Don't need to argue that point with me. The other, though...about him being viewed as a "moderate" by his own people...I see your point. I'm just not sure I'm buying it completely. I could just as easily make the argument that to a lot of them he's the same caliber of hero as bin Laden, or that, having much longer memories than your typical Westerner, are still much more aware of his terrorist roots. Though it all does boil down to what precisely his people think of him...I just don't know what that is, nor would I necessarily be confident in allowing the choice of representation at his funeral to represent his people's view of him, regardless of ours. Better, I think, to send a less senior official to the funeral while a more senior one is sent to recognize a new, moderate Palestinian leadership, as a way of seeing "We recognize your importance as a people...and further recognize your commitment to a more moderate and peaceful solution going forward, which was lacking under your previous leadership". My uber-cat, however, thinks ";'[pppppppppppppppppppppp" (she typed that herself). Overall...the situation's complex enough that I can't say I can really disagree with her, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 And of course, another catch is that we could end up sending someone who's out the door in a few months anyway. Send Powell, for instance...and on January 20th, we have a new Secretary of State who doesn't necessarily share Powell's views on the Palestinian issue anyway. And I have absolutely no idea how that might factor into things. It might not even factor at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VabeachBledsoefan Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 What are you talking about? Did I say he was misunderstood? Did I say he brought the world together? Did I say he stopped radicals? Did I say he was wonderful? Did I even suggest that our rep should make a speech of any kind? The answer to all that is: no. What I did say was that what happens tommorow is more important than anyone's opinion of the now dead Arafat. It is a question of diplomacy that is all. I clearly pointed out that it was a difficult question and made no claim to owning all the wisdom on the issue. In response, I get this hysterical rant from you. Why do you bother? Seriously, what do you get out of this kind of response? There is no information being exchanged here, there is nothing being learned. You might as well be flashing old ladies in the park. Other than whatever preverse enjoyment you get out of it, there really is no point. 113249[/snapback] I think he is out of his league debating you on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I think he is out of his league debating you on this 113321[/snapback] Scratch all after "debating". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Screw you snapperhead. 113286[/snapback] Is that a promotion or demotion from "puddinhead"? I forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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