Sisyphean Bills Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm talking about beating a physically superior Green Bay team in 06 and hanging around for a very long time against a vastly superior Colts team in 06 (the Bills weren't talented that year). "Playing not to lose" and all of that -- not giving up big plays, controlling the clock, fighting field position battles, and protecting the football by not gambling. Jauron is good at that. However, that tactical approach means that you're more than likely to lose against less flawed teams because you're not attacking. Against teams with equal or worse flaws -- see the Rams game in 2008 -- you'll hang around and beat them in the end by letting them make more mistakes than you. Even in the Jets debacle at the end of the season last year, I felt that Jauron thoroughly outcoached Mangini aside from the Losman fumble (a big aside, mind you). The Jets were at home and probably a better team player by player, yet the Bills were in a position to win. I have never claimed he wasn't a very conservative coach, so you are preaching to the preacher. His strategy oozes his mantra, "It is tough to win in the NFL." He has said it point blank many times, that one just hopes to hang in there, stay close, and have a chance to make a kick at the end of the game. As I've said many times before, this is the strategy of mediocrity because it is minimal risk. That is not to say that taking wild gambles is preferable. But, the approach of eliminating risk is entirely passive and reactionary to what others are doing to you. What I'd like to see in Buffalo is a leader (or group) with a vision and a plan for success and a willingness to take the risks to surmount the obstacles, build a sustainable organization, and, yes, risk having success. Excelling tactically is part of that, by enabling flexible systems, showing some productive creativity, and adapting to the players and situations on hand and not forcing square pegs through round holes. I realize you think he sucks, Nope. I think he has done as well as he is capable of doing. I have written repeatedly that he is a mediocre coach at best that produces mediocre results. I don't buy the nonsense that he always has no talent (or far less than everyone else) or that he will someday, if we wait long enough, become an instant Hall of Famer. but Jauron has a ton of respect around the league. This is an insignificant point. Rod Marinelli is a great person and is very highly respected around the NFL. He also happens to be the only head coach in the modern era NFL to preside over a winless season for a non-expansion team. Do I think he should be coach of the Bills? No. But I do think that a healthy dose of realism and objective observation would make this board a lot better. Lately, it's all "the Bills suck"; "Wilson sucks"; "Edwards sucks"; etc. etc. It's not only extremely tiresome, it's factually wrong. The Bills have been mediocre of late, and I suspect they will be again this year too (6-8 wins). They had 7 wins against the second weakest schedule last year. The schedule is tougher and the offensive line is in worse shape and, if the pre-season is any indication, nothing has changed from the 2-8 slide last year. 7 or 8 wins this year would be an astonishing feat. That is realism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 They had 7 wins against the second weakest schedule last year. The schedule is tougher and the offensive line is in worse shape and, if the pre-season is any indication, nothing has changed from the 2-8 slide last year. 7 or 8 wins this year would be an astonishing feat. That is realism. They've won seven three times in a row, and the schedule this year is easier than it was in 2007 (AFC North, NFC East). Tampa sucks, and the Jags are probably going to be mediocre at best. That's a couple. They aren't going to go 0-6 in the division again (I see the Jets as a sub-.500 team), so that's another one or two. They also have Cleveland and KC, both of whom aren't very good at all. That's 5-6. I expect an injury-aided upset at some point. That gets you to 6-7. Plus there's the whole injury factor - if they don't get decimated and other teams do, they'll have a chance to reach .500. That's a 50-50 proposition, but at least it's an even bet they'll be on the right side of the injury equation vis-a-vis the competition. Speaking of which, they've escaped the injury bug so far ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ralph Wilson IS the Buffalo Bills. If you hate him that much, I suggest you find another team to root for. As I wade through the flotsam and jetsam of another flood of mediocrity by the Bills, I feel compelled to (again) remind everyone of Ralph Wilson's track record as Bills owner: In 49 seasons, the Bills have had only 17 winning seasons. That roughly means that out of every three seasons, we have a winning record in only one. The Bills all-time winning percentage is a paltry .475. Only 8 of the 32 teams in the NFL have a lower winning percentage. Only four coaches in Bills history have been able to post a winning percentage during their tenure here, Lou Saban, Chuck Knox, Marv Levy, and Wade Phillips. Those four coaches have accounted for 16 of our 17 winning seasons. Aside from those four, Mike Mularkey is the only other Bills coach with a winning season. Marv retired. The others were fired. Our greatest coach, Lou Saban, died never having been recognized/rewarded by Ralph Wilson for our two AFL Championships. The player that many longtime Bills fans consider the greatest Bill ever, Cookie Gilchrist, has never been recognized/rewarded by Ralph Wilson for his great contributions to the team's early success (the two championships). Our greatest general manager, Bill Polian, was fired by Ralph. Our second greatest general manager, John Butler, was fired by Ralph. Ralph Wilson is in the Hall of Fame for his contributions towards founding and building the AFL and his role in the merger, etc. But as the owner of the Bills, he's done a horrible job. Yes, he's kept the team here but the end result of that is that we, the greatest football fans in the world, continue to endure season after season of Ralph Wilson's clueless bumbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Bill Polian was a talented football executive who knew what he was doing, his results speak for itself. Even during his successful stint he was constantly battling Ralph's CFO, Littman, over finances. There really is no surprise that Ralph Wilson fired Polian because it was inevitable. The franchise is the owner's cash cow. Extracting money out of the operation was more of a priority than winning. Does anyone really expect a stubborn 90 yr. old who has owned a business for half a century to change his ways? Let's get real here. It is what it is, and has always been. Very well put. The issue all along has been an atmosphere which is not conducive to making football decisions. 32 teams in the league have priority 1A of making a profit. 1B is being competitive. The difference remains that some teams differentiate from 1A to 1B must more than others. Lurking in the background is the mysterious Littman. He's the type of guy who oversees RW's finances, but his presence is as open as RW's was in retaining DJ. Continuity is nice when you've got the right people and extenuating circumstances prevent winning. It's clear by this point that Brandon and Jauron aren't good enough. But the owner and CFO will remain no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ralph Wilson IS the Buffalo Bills. If you hate him that much, I suggest you find another team to root for. Would love to... unfortunately (actually, fortunately in the bigger picture) I had many of the same kinds of experiences with my dad and Buffalo and Bills games that Tim Russert described in "Big Russ and Me" and I hope those memories never leave my consciousness. That's how I can loathe Ralph Wilson and still love the Bills. I suspect many others on this board maintain their loyalty for similar reasons. But many of us won't be sorry when a new owner finally takes over. So, I'll ignore your suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ralph Wilson IS the Buffalo Bills. If you hate him that much, I suggest you find another team to root for. So, if Ralph moves/sells/wills the team to Toronto or LA they are still the Buffalo Bills? Good to know. BTW, do I have to condition my interest in a team to loyalty towards the owner? I didn't read the instructions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Very well put. The issue all along has been an atmosphere which is not conducive to making football decisions. 32 teams in the league have priority 1A of making a profit. 1B is being competitive. The difference remains that some teams differentiate from 1A to 1B must more than others. Lurking in the background is the mysterious Littman. He's the type of guy who oversees RW's finances, but his presence is as open as RW's was in retaining DJ. Continuity is nice when you've got the right people and extenuating circumstances prevent winning. It's clear by this point that Brandon and Jauron aren't good enough. But the owner and CFO will remain no matter what. BillsVet, There is nothing mysterious about Littman. Don't make him out to be a boogeyman. He is acting on the orders of the owner and serving the interest of the owner. When the battles between Littman and Polian became too belligerant the owner sided with the finance man and jettisoned Polian. That was an easy decision for the owner to make: more money over competitiveness. Even when Butler and A. J. Smith tookover the reigns from Polian the constant battles with Wilson's and Littman over money issues resulted in the inevitable: their departure and the continuation of the organizational structure which stressed financial perspectives over football perspectives. Fans of the team get frustrated that the owner has not relied on top shelf football people to guide his miserable team. They are perplexed over the issue, especially when they see the Falcons and the Dolphins quickly turn things around when their respective owners installed quality football executives to run their franchises. There should be no surprise by anyone who has followed the half century ownership of HIS team. He maintains this backward management style simply because it has proved lucrative for him. It is as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 BillsVet, There is nothing mysterious about Littman. Don't make him out to be a boogeyman. He is acting on the orders of the owner and serving the interest of the owner. When the battles between Littman and Polian became too belligerant the owner sided with the finance man and jettisoned Polian. That was an easy decision for the owner to make: more money over competitiveness. Even when Butler and A. J. Smith tookover the reigns from Polian the constant battles with Wilson's and Littman over money issues resulted in the inevitable: their departure and the continuation of the organizational structure which stressed financial perspectives over football perspectives. Fans of the team get frustrated that the owner has not relied on top shelf football people to guide his miserable team. They are perplexed over the issue, especially when they see the Falcons and the Dolphins quickly turn things around when their respective owners installed quality football executives to run their franchises. There should be no surprise by anyone who has followed the half century ownership of HIS team. He maintains this backward management style simply because it has proved lucrative for him. It is as simple as that. Littmann has had a very long relationship with Wilson and it extends beyond the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 As I wade through the flotsam and jetsam of another flood of mediocrity by the Bills, I feel compelled to (again) remind everyone of Ralph Wilson's track record as Bills owner: In 49 seasons, the Bills have had only 17 winning seasons. That roughly means that out of every three seasons, we have a winning record in only one. The Bills all-time winning percentage is a paltry .475. Only 8 of the 32 teams in the NFL have a lower winning percentage. Only four coaches in Bills history have been able to post a winning percentage during their tenure here, Lou Saban, Chuck Knox, Marv Levy, and Wade Phillips. Those four coaches have accounted for 16 of our 17 winning seasons. Aside from those four, Mike Mularkey is the only other Bills coach with a winning season. Marv retired. The others were fired. Our greatest coach, Lou Saban, died never having been recognized/rewarded by Ralph Wilson for our two AFL Championships. The player that many longtime Bills fans consider the greatest Bill ever, Cookie Gilchrist, has never been recognized/rewarded by Ralph Wilson for his great contributions to the team's early success (the two championships). Our greatest general manager, Bill Polian, was fired by Ralph. Our second greatest general manager, John Butler, was fired by Ralph. Ralph Wilson is in the Hall of Fame for his contributions towards founding and building the AFL and his role in the merger, etc. But as the owner of the Bills, he's done a horrible job. Yes, he's kept the team here but the end result of that is that we, the greatest football fans in the world, continue to endure season after season of Ralph Wilson's clueless bumbling. Ralph Wilson IS the Buffalo Bills. If you hate him that much, I suggest you find another team to root for. Hmmm...where to start. Firstly I don't "hate" Ralph Wilson. I don't hate bumbling incompetents. I accept the fact that for better or worse he's the owner of our team, just as Mike Brown owns the Bengals and William Clay Ford owns the Lions. The purpose of my original post is that I think many younger Bills fans need to be aware that Ralph doesn't know how to run a football team. I felt the need to post this thought again because every day here I sift through threads criticizing Brandon, Guy, Modrak, Littman, Jauron, Edwards, etc. and I feel it needs to be made clear (again mostly to the Bills fans who weren't around during the late 60s, 70s, and till the mid 80s) that success for this organization has been the exception, not the rule. The reason for this constant mediocrity is Ralph Wilson. I am grateful to him for providing us with the team. But that's all. Secondly I'll root for the team I've rooted for since 1968 and will continue to root for till they or me no longer exist. As I've said on this board numerous times I fully expect to be buried with some sort of Bills paraphernalia in my coffin. I can't not root for the Bills. That die has been cast. I can love the team and simultaneously criticize the owner and I will. You go ahead and root however the hell you want to. Your suggestion that I should find another team to root for if I disapprove of the owner is ridiculous. It seems as if you're reverting to the argument that if one is critical/negative that they are not worthy of cheering for the team. If you view my posts, they are typically positive, optimistic, and hopeful. I am not a Bills naysayer or doomgloomer. Again what you seem to miss is that there is nothing that says one cannot love the team and criticize its owner at the same time. I do not and never will subscribe to the ignorance of blind loyalty. It's no different than my love for this country. I can still love our country but criticize our Presidents, our congress, and our judges. I criticize because I care and want to see improvements. This is the point which seems like it might be too sophisticated for you to understand. By all means continue with your blind loyalty to Ralph Wilson. I'm sure he'd be happy to have more people like you Todd, blindly buying what he is selling. He could just continue to put mediocrity on the field like he is doing, but without the criticism that accompanies it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 They've won seven three times in a row, and the schedule this year is easier than it was in 2007 (AFC North, NFC East). Tampa sucks, and the Jags are probably going to be mediocre at best. That's a couple. They aren't going to go 0-6 in the division again (I see the Jets as a sub-.500 team), so that's another one or two. They also have Cleveland and KC, both of whom aren't very good at all. That's 5-6. I expect an injury-aided upset at some point. That gets you to 6-7. Plus there's the whole injury factor - if they don't get decimated and other teams do, they'll have a chance to reach .500. That's a 50-50 proposition, but at least it's an even bet they'll be on the right side of the injury equation vis-a-vis the competition. Speaking of which, they've escaped the injury bug so far ... You may be correct. I don't count every game against a weak sister as an automatic 'W' though. We lost some of those games last year and we don't look any better so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthICE Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ralph Wilson IS the Buffalo Bills. If you hate him that much, I suggest you find another team to root for. Ralph Wilson is NOT the Buffalo Bills. The Bills are a team in the NFL, Wilson is just the owner. The problem is Ralph thinks he is the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'64 Bills Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 As I wade through the flotsam and jetsam of another flood of mediocrity by the Bills, I feel compelled to (again) remind everyone of Ralph Wilson's track record as Bills owner: In 49 seasons, the Bills have had only 17 winning seasons. That roughly means that out of every three seasons, we have a winning record in only one. The Bills all-time winning percentage is a paltry .475. Only 8 of the 32 teams in the NFL have a lower winning percentage. Only four coaches in Bills history have been able to post a winning percentage during their tenure here, Lou Saban, Chuck Knox, Marv Levy, and Wade Phillips. Those four coaches have accounted for 16 of our 17 winning seasons. Aside from those four, Mike Mularkey is the only other Bills coach with a winning season. Marv retired. The others were fired. Our greatest coach, Lou Saban, died never having been recognized/rewarded by Ralph Wilson for our two AFL Championships. The player that many longtime Bills fans consider the greatest Bill ever, Cookie Gilchrist, has never been recognized/rewarded by Ralph Wilson for his great contributions to the team's early success (the two championships). Our greatest general manager, Bill Polian, was fired by Ralph. Our second greatest general manager, John Butler, was fired by Ralph. Ralph Wilson is in the Hall of Fame for his contributions towards founding and building the AFL and his role in the merger, etc. But as the owner of the Bills, he's done a horrible job. Yes, he's kept the team here but the end result of that is that we, the greatest football fans in the world, continue to endure season after season of Ralph Wilson's clueless bumbling. I live locally and know Lou's daughter who never left the area when her Dad did in '76. She says the Bills have not told her anything about a day to honor Lou after his passing. She doubts Ralph will ever do that. He doesn't like anyone who challenges him - - and then does the ultimate by quitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg793 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'll defend RW a little. A few years ago I thought RW made a brilliant move--he went out and hired a guy with a track record of success and gave him total control of the franchise (Tom Donahoe). TD put us back on track cap-wise, put together a few above-average drafts, hired a rising star as a head coach, and sold a boat-load of tickets. Once nothing really worked out with TD, I think RW felt burned and re-exerted control. AND I STILL WISH TD WAS HERE IT WAS ATLEAST ALITTLE BETTER WHEN HE WAS RUNNING THE SHOW NOW ITS DAMN RIGHT BORING. HE GOT US PLAYERS. BUT COULDN'T CHOOSE A COACH. NOW WE GOT NO PLAYERS AND NO COACH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I live locally and know Lou's daughter who never left the area when her Dad did in '76. She says the Bills have not told her anything about a day to honor Lou after his passing. She doubts Ralph will ever do that. He doesn't like anyone who challenges him - - and then does the ultimate by quitting. Lou Saban was a unique (eccentric) individual. To say that he was peripatetic is an understatement. He was not able to control the volcanic eruptions of his emotions. In hindsight, it was not so much that he quit on the Bills, so much as his querky personality compelled him to move on when he got frustrated. He must have had at least 25 different jobs and 25 different moves in his career. I could understand why Ralph Wilson at first resented Lou Saban walking away from the Bills, but taking a long term view it is obvious that Lou Saban was just DIFFERENT. Lou Saban and Cookie Gilchrist were instrumental in the Bills winning a couple of championships in the AFL. The right thing to do is to honor their service to this losing organization, even if it included some controversies. But Ralph Wilson is the type of person to hold grudges. He is very petty and doesn't tolerate anyone challenging him, especially if there is an issue over money. No one who has followed the team should be surprised at how Ralph has behaved toward his former employeees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ralph Wilson IS the Buffalo Bills. If you hate him that much, I suggest you find another team to root for. or just wait a year or two. Ralphie ain't getting any younger. The only time that this team had any success was when Polian talked Ralph into spending money to make money. Then Ralph pushed Polian out of town and went back to being Ebenezer Scrooge. The only thing keeping me interested in the team is knowing that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Eventually we will have an owner who is interested in winning. And don't give me any crap about LA or Toronto. The Bills are never leaving Bufflalo. Guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 So, if Ralph moves/sells/wills the team to Toronto or LA they are still the Buffalo Bills? Good to know. BTW, do I have to condition my interest in a team to loyalty towards the owner? I didn't read the instructions... The criticism of Ralph Wilson from the fans and local media in western NY is very tame. If he was the owner of such a pathetic team in Philly, NY, Chicago, Boston etc he would have been run out of town a long time ago. They wouldn't tolerate his shyster behavior the way he is tolerated in Buffalo. In my view I consider him to be an embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ralph needs to learn how to hire a real gm and a real coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ralph needs to learn how to hire a real gm and a real coach A real coach or GM would force him to try to win which would cost him money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwws9999 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Very well put. The issue all along has been an atmosphere which is not conducive to making football decisions. 32 teams in the league have priority 1A of making a profit. 1B is being competitive. The difference remains that some teams differentiate from 1A to 1B must more than others. Lurking in the background is the mysterious Littman. He's the type of guy who oversees RW's finances, but his presence is as open as RW's was in retaining DJ. Continuity is nice when you've got the right people and extenuating circumstances prevent winning. It's clear by this point that Brandon and Jauron aren't good enough. But the owner and CFO will remain no matter what. since the bills receive 125 MILLION a a year from tv alone (which is more than the player payroll), all ralph has to do is sell some tickets in his FREE stadium to make a buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwws9999 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 BillsVet, There is nothing mysterious about Littman. Don't make him out to be a boogeyman. He is acting on the orders of the owner and serving the interest of the owner. When the battles between Littman and Polian became too belligerant the owner sided with the finance man and jettisoned Polian. That was an easy decision for the owner to make: more money over competitiveness. Even when Butler and A. J. Smith tookover the reigns from Polian the constant battles with Wilson's and Littman over money issues resulted in the inevitable: their departure and the continuation of the organizational structure which stressed financial perspectives over football perspectives. Fans of the team get frustrated that the owner has not relied on top shelf football people to guide his miserable team. They are perplexed over the issue, especially when they see the Falcons and the Dolphins quickly turn things around when their respective owners installed quality football executives to run their franchises. There should be no surprise by anyone who has followed the half century ownership of HIS team. He maintains this backward management style simply because it has proved lucrative for him. It is as simple as that. the thing that cracks me up is how many people on this board suck up to that weasal ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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