Fingon Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The most shocking parts were that it takes 3 years on a waiting list to get a family doctor, and 4+ months to see a specialist (like a dermatologist.) Not to mention the waits in the emergency room, and for surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 There's certainly no perfect system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 There's certainly no perfect system. Agreed, but there are better ways than a Canadian-style system. Hell, we could reduce health care costs by 50% if we really wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The most shocking parts were that it takes 3 years on a waiting list to get a family doctor, and 4+ months to see a specialist (like a dermatologist.) Not to mention the waits in the emergency room, and for surgery. I work, everyday, making referral appointments for people. Unless there is an emergency, it can take that long to get an appointment with a dermatologist in the US as well...a lot of specialist. I had a kidney stone a few months back, and waited nearly 4 hours in the emergency room to see a doctor. And I have a Blue Cross Blue Shield PPO insurance... I am not at all arguing that the Canadian system is better, just that there are a lot of people here who really have no clue, things aren't all that great in the US either....as AD says, there is no perfect system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 I work, everyday, making appointments for people. Unless there is an emergency, it can take that long to get an appointment with a dermatologist in the US as well... I had a kidney stone a few months back, and waited nearly 4 hours in the emergency room to see a doctor. And I have a Blue Cross Blue Shield PPO insurance... I am not at all arguing that the Canadian system is better, just that there are a lot of people here who really have no clue, things aren't all that great in the US either....as AD says, ther is no perfect system. The operative word is CAN. That is the average in Canada. The average emergency room wait time in the US is 1 hour. The average in Canada is as high as 21 hours. 21 freakin hours to see a doctor. http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/05/21/...21.html?ref=rss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 the things you cite don't seem particularly shocking. ER waits in the US are very long as well. I've waited well over 4 months to see specialists myself here. I've never met a Canadian, and I've met a lot, who would trade what they have for what we have. That doesn't mean they think their system is perfect by any stretch. this is clearly the wrong forum, but... What's shocking to me is the 50 million people who have no health insurance and the fact that over 25% of all bankruptcies in the US are due to health care expenses. Further the inability of people to get adequate health insurance because insurance companies deem them to have "preexisting conditions" is completely unconscionable and, in my opinion, a national disgrace. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIQvhG3SBDI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 There's no doubt the American system is a mess but I don't think what the Canadians are doing fits either. There is so amazingly much wrong with both that it's not even worth arguing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 the things you cite don't seem particularly shocking. ER waits in the US are very long as well. I've waited well over 4 months to see specialists myself here. I've never met a Canadian, and I've met a lot, who would trade what they have for what we have. That doesn't mean they think their system is perfect by any stretch. this is clearly the wrong forum, but... What's shocking to me is the 50 million people who have no health insurance and the fact that over 25% of all bankruptcies in the US are due to health care expenses. Further the inability of people to get adequate health insurance because insurance companies deem them to have "preexisting conditions" is completely unconscionable and, in my opinion, a national disgrace. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIQvhG3SBDI Again, the average ER waiting time in the US is 1 hour. The average wait time for ER treatment is 12 hours in Quebec. I'm not saying the current system is good, but it's better than waiting (on average) 4 months from seeing a doctor to receiving treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 There's no doubt the American system is a mess but I don't think what the Canadians are doing fits either. There is so amazingly much wrong with both that it's not even worth arguing either. I normally disagree with AD on political issues, but I agree with you here. Our system sucks and while Canada's may be rated higher, there has to be a better way. That said, I have waited in an American hospital 17 hours once, so Fingon your argument is crap. Especially if you ever go to a poorer understaffed city hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Again, the average ER waiting time in the US is 1 hour. The average wait time for ER treatment is 12 hours in Quebec. I'm not saying the current system is good, but it's better than waiting (on average) 4 months from seeing a doctor to receiving treatment. I simply don't believe either the 1 hour number or the 12 hour number. The 4 months to see a specialist seems believable, but its not particularly out of line to what private insurance gets you for specialists depending on your area and the specialist. that said, for better or worse, we certainly aren't going to be having Canadian style health care here anytime in the foreseeable future. A handful of members of Congress want one, but its not being pursued with any hope of actually getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 I normally disagree with AD on political issues, but I agree with you here. Our system sucks and while Canada's may be rated higher, there has to be a better way. That said, I have waited in an American hospital 17 hours once, so Fingon your argument is crap. Especially if you ever go to a poorer understaffed city hospital. Are you that !@#$ing dumb? You waited 17 hours once, so what? The average is 1 hour. The AVERAGE wait time Quebec is 12 hours. Some people wait days for emergency room care in Canada. I swear, it must take an idiot to not get the concept of an average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 I simply don't believe either the 1 hour number or the 12 hour number. The 4 months to see a specialist seems believable, but its not particularly out of line to what private insurance gets you for specialists depending on your area and the specialist. that said, for better or worse, we certainly aren't going to be having Canadian style health care here anytime in the foreseeable future. A handful of members of Congress want one, but its not being pursued with any hope of actually getting it. The average time that hospital emergency rooms patients wait to see a doctor has grown from about 38 minutes to almost an hour over the past decade, according to new federal statistics released yesterday. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles...nears_one_hour/ According to data compiled by the Le Comité de coordination national des urgences (CCNU), which works with emergency wards across the province, the average wait time in the Outaouais is four hours above the provincial average and two hours longer than last year. In addition, the data does not include the time spent waiting before seeing a doctor. http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/05/21/...21.html?ref=rss You can choose to simply "not believe" but that takes away any credibility you may have had on the subject. Edit: i was wrong, the average wait time is 16 hours in Quebec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 the things you cite don't seem particularly shocking. ER waits in the US are very long as well. I've waited well over 4 months to see specialists myself here. I've never met a Canadian, and I've met a lot, who would trade what they have for what we have. That doesn't mean they think their system is perfect by any stretch. this is clearly the wrong forum, but... What's shocking to me is the 50 million people who have no health insurance and the fact that over 25% of all bankruptcies in the US are due to health care expenses. Further the inability of people to get adequate health insurance because insurance companies deem them to have "preexisting conditions" is completely unconscionable and, in my opinion, a national disgrace. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIQvhG3SBDI I agree that those things need to be fixed.However we dont want single payer system.I'm hoping that they can come up with something that will improve the system without ruining it. Insurance companiesneed to make serious reforms. Maybe the threat that they will go away has caused them to step up to the plate and stop with their barbaric practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 I agree that those things need to be fixed.However we dont want single payer system.I'm hoping that they can come up with something that will improve the system without ruining it. Insurance companiesneed to make serious reforms. Maybe the threat that they will go away has caused them to step up to the plate and stop with their barbaric practices. 50% of health care costs are from the overuse and misuse of care, and that is on the hospitals end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I normally disagree with AD on political issues, but I agree with you here. Our system sucks and while Canada's may be rated higher, there has to be a better way. That said, I have waited in an American hospital 17 hours once, so Fingon your argument is crap. Especially if you ever go to a poorer understaffed city hospital. when I had a kidney stone I got right in right away. My billwas 17,000 for the 3 hrs I spent there. My ins paid 10,000.The friggin hospital wouldnt write off the rest. I argued and fought with them to get the bill down to 3,500. This is after paying 700/month for my blue shield ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 50% of health care costs are from the overuse and misuse of care, and that is on the hospitals end. well fine--then they should be reimbursed less for the overused services..cough..decided on the whim of an insurance co or govt panel??? Works both ways. -Patient ends up getting screwed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 i think your getting suckered with these numbers. Be wary of the source for these things. Health insurance companies are routinely engaged in anti-Canadian health marketing, usually through associations or astro-turf organizations. They are arguably the least regulated of any industry and make obscene profits - making Canada look as bad as possible is in their interest and they're not shy about lying about it. You consider a 3.8% profit margin obscene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 well fine--then they should be reimbursed less for the overused services..cough..decided on the whim of an insurance co or govt panel??? Works both ways. -Patient ends up getting screwed That's the problem. Extremely costly experimental procedures are used, even though they have not been proven to be more effective than the cheaper and older treatments. The CBO issued a very informative report on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 50% of health care costs are from the overuse and misuse of care, and that is on the hospitals end. Can you explain where you got that number from? I am starting to get the feeling you are in over your head on this one fignon... or you work for an insurance company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew in CA Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Again, the average ER waiting time in the US is 1 hour. The average wait time for ER treatment is 12 hours in Quebec. I'm not saying the current system is good, but it's better than waiting (on average) 4 months from seeing a doctor to receiving treatment. Why are you comparing the average for a nation to the average for a province? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts