KRC Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Top 10 .... no way. Good guy, above average but no way is he a top 10. Think about it even among QB's who have played in my lifetime - not to mention "old timers" - I know old is relative (this list is not in order): Joe Montana Roger Staubach Terry Bradshaw Jim Kelly John Elway Dan Marino Tom Brady* (Hate to admit it) Dan Fouts Fran Tarkington Peyton Manning Joe Namath Steve Young Phil Simms Ken Stabler Jim Plunkett Bob Griese (hate to admit it) Brett Faurve (in spite of his melodrama) Troy Aikman (sucks to put him on this list) Ken Anderson Just to name a few that blow away Bernie Kosar. This is even before you get to the likes of Bart Star, Y.A. Tittle, John Unitas, Sammy Baugh, etc, etc. If you sat back and though about it no way does Kosar make the top 25 and maybe not even the top 50. I would still put QB's like McNabb, Archie Manning and Warren Moon far ahead of Kosar A lot of those guys on your list played before 1990. They should promptly be remove as they cannot be considered all-time greats, since they played before 1990. Bigger, stronger, faster and all that. [/tards] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Tarkington? Faurve? Never heard of 'em. Must not have been that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 A lot of those guys on your list played before 1990. They should promptly be remove as they cannot be considered all-time greats, since they played before 1990. Bigger, stronger, faster and all that. [/tards] I actually believe if Archie manning wasn't stuck playing on such a shi77y team that he could have been one of the all time greats. Even better than both of his sons and that is saying a good bit. Fran tarkington probably would not even make the league today because of "measurables" and he is certainly a top 20 QB of all time. He was the Flutie of the league before Flutie came around. The guy could just make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 A lot of those guys on your list played before 1990. They should promptly be remove as they cannot be considered all-time greats, since they played before 1990. Bigger, stronger, faster and all that. [/tards] I actually believe if Archie manning wasn't stuck playing on such a shi77y team that he could have been one of the all time greats. Even better than both of his sons and that is saying a good bit. Fran tarkington probably would not even make the league today because of "measurables" and he is certainly a top 20 QB of all time. He was the Flutie of the league before Flutie came around. The guy could just make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Kosar was close to the top 10 best QB during his era. These guys were better than him...and I'm sure I left a few people out but tried to pick guys who played during most of Kosar's Cleveland career. Marino Montana Elway Kelly Esiason Theisman Simms Moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I was going to post this but I never got around to it. I always put Bernie Kosar in my top 10 all time QB list. Just something about the guy. He had Joe Montana like qualities. Very accurate, aware, smart as hell. Yahoo sports ran a little thing about him losing all those big games in college pro. Really the guy should have led Cleveland to two Super Bowls. Denver and Elway got lucky two out of those three times. In the wake of his bankruptcy, his name is in the news and I didn't want this to get lost in the shuffle. thats quite an admission..lol....-He was a darn good QB though....top 60-80 of all time maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Kosar was close to the top 10 best QB during his era. These guys were better than him...and I'm sure I left a few people out but tried to pick guys who played during most of Kosar's Cleveland career. Marino Montana Elway Kelly Esiason Theisman Simms Moon Aikman Young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I actually believe if Archie manning wasn't stuck playing on such a shi77y team that he could have been one of the all time greats. Even better than both of his sons and that is saying a good bit. Fran tarkington probably would not even make the league today because of "measurables" and he is certainly a top 20 QB of all time. He was the Flutie of the league before Flutie came around. The guy could just make plays. Tarkenton was the athlete that Dougie was...but was a much much better QB than Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Tarkenton was the athlete that Dougie was...but was a much much better QB than Doug. But if Flutie was even Tarkenton's size, let alone a standard for the era....he may have been one of the best ever. Poor Flutie is such a miserable SOB because he knows he has the tools to be a HOF but is just too darn small. I have never trusted a QB to make the right decision more than I did with Flutie. He was amazing at knowing when to run, pass, check down, audible.....you could just let him do his thing. Kelly was good but made some boneheaded decisions. Trent Edwards has me excited because he reminds me a lot of Flutie, but he has more passing tools. You should sit back, relax, and trust your QB at the helm of your team...not watch him like you are in the car with your 15 year old daughter at the wheel for the first time. Last point on Kosar.....he was good value at QB. Nice player, not flashy, often left out of the conversation of top QBs, but for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPeaTear Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Is he even a top 10 in Cleveland? even im a top 10 in Cleveland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hossage Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Kosar was one of the best players of his era. He played several seasons seriously injured and was hampered by martyball, a poor supporting cast, and Belicheks ineptitude at coaching offenses early in his career. Testaverde was awful as a replacement for Kosar. Bernie could put touch on deep passes like few other QBs in the nfl, and he threw very few interceptions during his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GripnRip Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Im not surprised the guy with Flutie in his name puts Bernie Kosar in the same sentence as Joe Montana and names him top 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Kosar was one of the best players of his era. He played several seasons seriously injured and was hampered by martyball, a poor supporting cast, and Belicheks ineptitude at coaching offenses early in his career. Testaverde was awful as a replacement for Kosar. Bernie could put touch on deep passes like few other QBs in the nfl, and he threw very few interceptions during his career. I like Bernie. Seems like a good guy, and was a good QB. Top 10 all time? C'mon. You aren't going there, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellDressed Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Way cool pic...Kelly looks like a goodfella there to remind Bernie about the DEAL he made. Almost like James Caan in the movie THIEF "Hey John, spot this Coiugar on the corner will ya??" This Mann film is so underrated it makes me sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellDressed Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 If Kosar didn't have "Marty Ball" to contend with he probably would have won a SB. But such is life. Testicleverde was a better QB than Kosar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gus2378 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Kosar was one of the best players of his era. He played several seasons seriously injured and was hampered by martyball, a poor supporting cast, and Belicheks ineptitude at coaching offenses early in his career. Testaverde was awful as a replacement for Kosar. Bernie could put touch on deep passes like few other QBs in the nfl, and he threw very few interceptions during his career. Again, where are you guys getting this stuff that the Browns and Schottenheimer somehow held Kosar back? Look at my previous post for his record playing for Schottenheimer as opposed to after Schottenheimer left. And look up the numbers, all but one year they passed more than they ran, Marty was not holding them back. Also, while he may not have had GREAT offensive talent around him, it was plenty good ... Kevin Mack made Pro Bowls ... Webster Slaughter, Ozzie Newsome, both Pro Bowlers .... the line was always solid and OT Cody Risien made Pro Bowls ... on defense Clay Matthews, Chip Banks, Minnifield and Dixon, all Pro Bowlers. Even Bob Golic made Pro Bowls, look it up ... Point is, it is revisionist history to say Schottenheimer's teams sucked just because they lost in the playoffs. Those were very good teams that were just not quite good enough, just like Kosar. At best he was the FIFTH-best QB in the AFC behind Kelly, Elway, Marino and Moon (and some might make a case for Boomer some years) ... the NFC had Montana and Simms early in his career and then added Aikman and Young ... Kosar was barely top 10 at any given point let alone of all time. Was Randall Cunningham one of the best ever? Dave Kreig? Mark Rypien? because those guys were all pretty similar to Kosar at that time in terms of numbers, Pro Bowls and winning. No one has come up with anytyhing yet that sets Kosar apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 But if Flutie was even Tarkenton's size, let alone a standard for the era....he may have been one of the best ever. Poor Flutie is such a miserable SOB because he knows he has the tools to be a HOF but is just too darn small. I have never trusted a QB to make the right decision more than I did with Flutie. He was amazing at knowing when to run, pass, check down, audible.....you could just let him do his thing. Kelly was good but made some boneheaded decisions. Trent Edwards has me excited because he reminds me a lot of Flutie, but he has more passing tools. You should sit back, relax, and trust your QB at the helm of your team...not watch him like you are in the car with your 15 year old daughter at the wheel for the first time. Last point on Kosar.....he was good value at QB. Nice player, not flashy, often left out of the conversation of top QBs, but for a reason. uhmm...I am a big Flutie supporter. But I don't necessarily think that his main problem at QB was his size. I rate Flutie as a GREAT athlete and a very good QB....-but his faults really were in some of his judgements on the field and his inconsistent passing accuracy. Tarkenton --a great athlete of nearly the caliber of Flutie-- was the better QB because of passing accuracy and other intangibles. I doubt Tark was 5 10.-so he was maybe an inch and a half taller than Flutie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Moon was one of the best passers I ever saw. He just couldn't win a Playoff Game to save his life. Was the QB on a couple teams that choked pretty regular in the Post season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Is he even a top 10 in Cleveland? Tim Couch is a top 10 in Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I really like Bernie, but he doesn't belong in the same sentence as Warren Moon. Kosar top 10? Puhleeze. Hey Deano... glad to see you came out for this post. Good effort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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