RLflutie7 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I was going to post this but I never got around to it. I always put Bernie Kosar in my top 10 all time QB list. Just something about the guy. He had Joe Montana like qualities. Very accurate, aware, smart as hell. Yahoo sports ran a little thing about him losing all those big games in college pro. Really the guy should have led Cleveland to two Super Bowls. Denver and Elway got lucky two out of those three times. In the wake of his bankruptcy, his name is in the news and I didn't want this to get lost in the shuffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdorn Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I was going to post this but I never got around to it. I always put Bernie Kosar in my top 10 all time QB list. Just something about the guy. He had Joe Montana like qualities. Very accurate, aware, smart as hell. Yahoo sports ran a little thing about him losing all those big games in college pro. Really the guy should have led Cleveland to two Super Bowls. Denver and Elway got lucky two out of those three times. In the wake of his bankruptcy, his name is in the news and I didn't want this to get lost in the shuffle. Top 10 really? cmon now you really are Flutie arent you? I bet Bernie is gonna start a thread next about how you are a top ten all time great right? Sorry couldnt resist. Top 10 no I would have him at the tier below that really good not great. Kinda in the Warren Moon, Dave Kreig , Drew Bledsoe class IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIE HARD 1967 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Is he even a top 10 in Cleveland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Top 10 really? cmon now you really are Flutie arent you? I bet Bernie is gonna start a thread next about how you are a top ten all time great right?Sorry couldnt resist. Top 10 no I would have him at the tier below that really good not great. Kinda in the Warren Moon, Dave Kreig , Drew Bledsoe class IMO. I really like Bernie, but he doesn't belong in the same sentence as Warren Moon. Kosar top 10? Puhleeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Top 10 of all time? He's not even Top 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Is he even a top 10 in Cleveland? Cleveland has had a pretty average history of quarterbacks, so yes he is IMO. Otto Graham of course was an all time great although few if any of us saw him play. Milt Plum, Brian Sipe? Mike Phipps? I had forgotten but doing some research I found that Bill Belichick was actually the one who demoted Bernie and eventually sent him on his way out of Cleveland. It was a VERY unpopular decision and there was apparently somewhat of a fan revolt. From the eminently maligned but very significant and popular Wikipedia: "In 1991, the Browns hired Bill Belichick as head coach. Not a big fan of Kosar, Belichick had signed quarterback Vinny Testaverde (Kosar's former college teammate) before the 1993 season. Early in the year, Belichick benched Kosar in favor of Testaverde. An injury to Testaverde later put Kosar back under center. However, after a 29–14 loss to Denver in week 8, the Browns released Kosar. Belichick told a press conference Kosar was suffering from "diminishing skills." The coach was not entirely incorrect; Kosar’s performance had trailed off in recent years. But the release of the popular player set off a wave of anger among Browns fans, some of whom came to the next home game in Kosar masks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 He had Joe Montana like qualities. no he didnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Top 10 really? cmon now you really are Flutie arent you? I bet Bernie is gonna start a thread next about how you are a top ten all time great right?Sorry couldnt resist. Top 10 no I would have him at the tier below that really good not great. Kinda in the Warren Moon, Dave Kreig , Drew Bledsoe class IMO. I don't think that Bernie Kosar, Dave Kreig or Drew Bledsoe are in Warren Moon's class... and Moon isn't even a top 10 all time QB IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusoe Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 On a kind-of related topic, I came across this great picture of Bernie Kosar and Jim Kelly which goes waaaay back. Jim looks like he is headed off to a disco party. LOL Hope you enjoy... Kosar and Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Cleveland has had a pretty average history of quarterbacks, so yes he is IMO. Otto Graham of course was an all time great although few if any of us saw him play. Milt Plum, Brian Sipe? Mike Phipps? I had forgotten but doing some research I found that Bill Belichick was actually the one who demoted Bernie and eventually sent him on his way out of Cleveland. It was a VERY unpopular decision and there was apparently somewhat of a fan revolt. From the eminently maligned but very significant and popular Wikipedia: "In 1991, the Browns hired Bill Belichick as head coach. Not a big fan of Kosar, Belichick had signed quarterback Vinny Testaverde (Kosar's former college teammate) before the 1993 season. Early in the year, Belichick benched Kosar in favor of Testaverde. An injury to Testaverde later put Kosar back under center. However, after a 29–14 loss to Denver in week 8, the Browns released Kosar. Belichick told a press conference Kosar was suffering from "diminishing skills." The coach was not entirely incorrect; Kosar’s performance had trailed off in recent years. But the release of the popular player set off a wave of anger among Browns fans, some of whom came to the next home game in Kosar masks." Right after I posted this I found a story on Bernie Kosar who actually urged the Browns to hire Belichick again after his first, unsuccessful tenure with the Browns. Very big of Bernie considering that Belichick poopcanned him. http://cle.scout.com/2/873641.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 On a kind-of related topic, I came across this great picture of Bernie Kosar and Jim Kelly which goes waaaay back. Jim looks like he is headed off to a disco party. LOL Hope you enjoy... Kosar and Kelly "Hey Jimbo.....what's that bag of powder doin' under your foot?" Poor Bernie.....he had his hands in everything off the field the past decade. When you never leave the casino table, you will eventually give it all back. PS......Trent Edwards is better than 50/50 to outplay Kosar's career. Top 10 is a little painful to attempt with a straight face. Nice underated QB....just like Henry Ellard at WR or Wilbur Montgomery at RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Right after I posted this I found a story on Bernie Kosar who actually urged the Browns to hire Belichick again after his first, unsuccessful tenure with the Browns. Very big of Bernie considering that Belichick poopcanned him. http://cle.scout.com/2/873641.html Bernie Kosar's last pass with the Cleveland Browns was a touchdown pass that he drew up in the dirt. NFL films did a special on Kosar and he talked about that and how he and Belichick conflicted with their offensive philosophy. Bernie basically said he believed in a offensive offense rather than a defensive offense, something like that. He said he didn't intend to be insubordinate but that's how it might have come across to Bill B. If Kosar didn't have "Marty Ball" to contend with he probably would have won a SB. But such is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I'd love to see this list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I liked Bernie, even met him once and he was great, but top 10? I would put him in the top 10 QBs from U. of Miami, or top 10 QBs in Cleveland Browns history, but not in the top 50 in NFL history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I liked Bernie, even met him once and he was great, but top 10? I would put him in the top 10 QBs from U. of Miami, or top 10 QBs in Cleveland Browns history, but not in the top 50 in NFL history. Maybe the poster means top 10 as in his favorite. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE GASH STATION Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 On a kind-of related topic, I came across this great picture of Bernie Kosar and Jim Kelly which goes waaaay back. Jim looks like he is headed off to a disco party. LOL Hope you enjoy... Kosar and Kelly Way cool pic... Kelly looks like a goodfella there to remind Bernie about the DEAL he made. Almost like James Caan in the movie THIEF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdorn Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I stand corrected in looking at Moons body of work he truly was in a class above the other qb's I mentioned, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I stand corrected in looking at Moons body of work he truly was in a class above the other qb's I mentioned, my bad. Moon was one of the best passers I ever saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I was going to post this but I never got around to it. I always put Bernie Kosar in my top 10 all time QB list. Just something about the guy. He had Joe Montana like qualities. Very accurate, aware, smart as hell. Yahoo sports ran a little thing about him losing all those big games in college pro. Really the guy should have led Cleveland to two Super Bowls. Denver and Elway got lucky two out of those three times. In the wake of his bankruptcy, his name is in the news and I didn't want this to get lost in the shuffle. Top 10 .... no way. Good guy, above average but no way is he a top 10. Think about it even among QB's who have played in my lifetime - not to mention "old timers" - I know old is relative (this list is not in order): Joe Montana Roger Staubach Terry Bradshaw Jim Kelly John Elway Dan Marino Tom Brady* (Hate to admit it) Dan Fouts Fran Tarkington Peyton Manning Joe Namath Steve Young Phil Simms Ken Stabler Jim Plunkett Bob Griese (hate to admit it) Brett Faurve (in spite of his melodrama) Troy Aikman (sucks to put him on this list) Ken Anderson Just to name a few that blow away Bernie Kosar. This is even before you get to the likes of Bart Star, Y.A. Tittle, John Unitas, Sammy Baugh, etc, etc. If you sat back and though about it no way does Kosar make the top 25 and maybe not even the top 50. I would still put QB's like McNabb, Archie Manning and Warren Moon far ahead of Kosar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gus2378 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 If Kosar didn't have "Marty Ball" to contend with he probably would have won a SB. But such is life. Oh, I don't know ... maybe if he doesn't throw 6 interceptions in 3 conference title games they win one of them. Just sayin' ... he was a good player but he played 16 games only 3 times his whole career, had a passer rating higher than 87.8 exactly ONCE and had a losing record as a starter. In fact, if you take out the Schottenheimer years that you insist held him back, his record was 23-37-1 as a starter (as opposed to 30-17 playing "Martyball"). Hell, without Marty he had worse numbers AND a worse winning percentage than ROB JOHNSON. (OK, that was a low blow ... true, but a low blow.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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