ans4e64 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 He proved nothing in the 14 games he was there. On top of which, now he is hurt, further impairing his ability. You are probably the only person that is a legitimate NFL fan that thinks a rookie WR should be all set and polished in their first year. Wow. Just because he was picked in the 2nd round doesn't mean he deserves to stay. Yes it does. Should we have kept Erik Flowers because he was a 1st, how about Tavares Tillman - he was a 2nd. Bucky Brooks? Todd Collins? John Parella? After their 1st year? Yes. People get too caught up with the fact that Hardy was a 2nd rounder. Getting drafted high doesn't mean you're good. It is more likely that you are good, but doesn't mean you are good. Getting drafted high doesn't automatically mean you're good, but it sure increases the likelyhood by a drastic percent. He was picked that high for a reason. He plays a position that is known, by everyone except for you, to require 2-3 years to develop properly. I could name a list of pro bowl, hall of fame receivers that didn't produce their 1st year. For chrissakes man, get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstencel Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Right now Hardy is #6 on the depth chart. Assuming they keep 6 receivers, there is chance that Justin Jenkins will be kept for Special teams purposes putting Hardy on the hot seat. Given his injury and the 1 year nature of TO's deal, I would expect the team to put him on the PUP list and develop him with the practice squad. It gives them optionality, if he starts to develop, to activate him midway through the season. Well considering you cant practice with team while on pup, except during a short window where they can have you practive for 2 weeks while they decide if going to activate or not, and if decide not too, cant practice with team again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbyte Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 If Hardy goes on the PUP list he will not be on the practice squad. Nic Haris has no chance of being paced on the practice squad. Hardy will be here at least for this year. Youboty, Simpson or MaCargo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsZubaz Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I highly doubt Youboty would get cut. I remember thinking he was one of our best players on defense in the first few games of the season last year before his injury. I think the Bills give him another chance to stay healthy. Also, with our fetish for corners, he will probably stick. Surprise cut for me would be Drayton Florence. I agree. When (hasn't been often) Youboty has been healthy he has looked like a premier nickel corner. Solid tackling and very athletic. I don't think he goes anywhere...assuming he is recovers from his latest ailments... Florence is a former first round pick who has been around the league for a few years and has started. He has played very well in zone schemes in the past. I would be very shocked to see him get cut...But... Who was the DB the Bills picked up a couple of years ago in FA (former Giant?)? I didn't anticipate him being cut either until I saw his play in camp and preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I agree. When (hasn't been often) Youboty has been healthy he has looked like a premier nickel corner. Solid tackling and very athletic. I don't think he goes anywhere...assuming he is recovers from his latest ailments... Florence is a former first round pick who has been around the league for a few years and has started. He has played very well in zone schemes in the past. I would be very shocked to see him get cut...But... Who was the DB the Bills picked up a couple of years ago in FA (former Giant?)? I didn't anticipate him being cut either until I saw his play in camp and preseason. It was Will James. The reason I say Florence is because (and it's early) Reggie Corner has been thriving so far as the nickel in OTA's. He did well last year, too. That, and Youboty (when he get's healthy), and if they really like either Cary Harris or Lankster, could mean Florence is out. If Florence is going to be the 5th corner on the depth chart, it might be better to carry a younger guy to develop, and also play on special teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 You are probably the only person that is a legitimate NFL fan that thinks a rookie WR should be all set and polished in their first year. Wow. Getting drafted high doesn't automatically mean you're good, but it sure increases the likelyhood by a drastic percent. He was picked that high for a reason. He plays a position that is known, by everyone except for you, to require 2-3 years to develop properly. I could name a list of pro bowl, hall of fame receivers that didn't produce their 1st year. For chrissakes man, get a clue. I am not stating that a WR should be set and polished after their first year, however a player should show glimpses of quality (i.e. Steve Johnson). Hardy failed to produce in pre-season last year, nor was he able to take advantage of his huge physical superiority due to his poor route running and lack of body control. I agree that players take several years to develop, but rarely does a top rate WR have as poor a first season as his. He only had 9 receptions for 87 yds. You may be able to develop him into a #3, but I doubt he will ever be even close to pro-bowl material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJBuffalo Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Brad Butler if Demetrius Bell can play Butler is on his way out the door. Youboty was the best player on the D before he got hurt lasy year. Brad Butler?? are you serious?? he was our best lineman last yr and the Bills gave him a contract extention last yr and now promoted him to RT. There is no way he gets cut. If Bell turns into this stud OT that everyone is jizzing in their pants about Walker would probably go before Butler, but this is rpobably 2 years down the road. I could see Kelsay, Simpson, and even Wilson bein cut. Roscoe gets traded for somethin above a bag of popcorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I could name a list of pro bowl, hall of fame receivers that didn't produce their 1st year. For chrissakes man, get a clue. Also, I would like to see your list of players that are pro-bowlers and HOF players that did not produce in their 1st year AND were not drafted in the first 3 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I am not stating that a WR should be set and polished after their first year, however a player should show glimpses of quality (i.e. Steve Johnson). Do you realize that Hardy and Johnson had almost identical numbers, with Hardy missing the last few games? You don't think Hardy showed glimpses? He most certainly did. Hardy failed to produce in pre-season last year Really? Because I was at game in Washington and could have sworn I saw him make an acrobatic catch in the endzone for a touchdown. nor was he able to take advantage of his huge physical superiority due to his poor route running and lack of body control. I'm pretty sure he caught a couple jump balls for touchdowns. I think one of them even won us an important game early in the season. I agree that players take several years to develop, but rarely does a top rate WR have as poor a first season as his. He only had 9 receptions for 87 yds. You may be able to develop him into a #3, but I doubt he will ever be even close to pro-bowl material. So if you're not a pro bowler, you should be cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsZubaz Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 It was Will James. The reason I say Florence is because (and it's early) Reggie Corner has been thriving so far as the nickel in OTA's. He did well last year, too. That, and Youboty (when he get's healthy), and if they really like either Cary Harris or Lankster, could mean Florence is out. If Florence is going to be the 5th corner on the depth chart, it might be better to carry a younger guy to develop, and also play on special teams. Thank you! I could not think of the name. He stunk out the place... I don't completely disagree with you on Florence. You are right that the team seems to be very high on Corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Also, I would like to see your list of players that are pro-bowlers and HOF players that did not produce in their 1st year AND were not drafted in the first 3 rounds. Why? Hardy was a 2nd rounder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Do you realize that Hardy and Johnson had almost identical numbers, with Hardy missing the last few games? You don't think Hardy showed glimpses? He most certainly did. Really? Because I was at game in Washington and could have sworn I saw him make an acrobatic catch in the endzone for a touchdown. So if you're not a pro bowler, you should be cut? Johnson was not highly touted which made it more difficult to obtain playing time. When on the field, he showed good route running and play making ability. If you looked at his numbers with respect to the amount of plays he was on the field, his stats would prove to be dramatically better than Hardy. As for being a pro bowler, I am not stating you need to be a pro-bowler or be cut, however in my opinion your #5-6 receivers should either be a special teams player or a young player who has the potential to blossom into a starter. I feel based on what Hardy has shown, at best he will be a #3/situation receiver. I am also not saying that he will definitely get cut, but if I had my choice between him and Johnson, I would take Johnson every day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Why? Hardy was a 2nd rounder... My point was to show that WR drafted in the first 2-3 rounds get the benefit of more playing time in their early years. Cris Carter, for example, is a player that did not produce his first year (5 rec, 84 yds), but he was 4th rounder significantly hindering his PT early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Also, I would like to see your list of players that are pro-bowlers and HOF players that did not produce in their 1st year AND were not drafted in the first 3 rounds. My point is so obvious that I don't even need to go beyond last year for research. Here are the top 20 receivers last year statistically who didn't produce their rookie seasons. Steve Smith 10 rec 0 TDs Roddy White 29 rec 3 TDs Brandon Marshall 20 rec 2 TDs Wes Welker 0 rec in first two seasons combined, 0 TDs Santana Moss 2 rec 0 TDs Hines Ward 15 rec 0 TDs Derrick Mason 14 rec 0 TDs Donald Driver 3 rec 1 TD Vincent Jackson 3 rec 0 TDs I don't even need to look past one year to justify my point. Imagine all of the other receivers in years past who had crappy rookie years. A bunch of those guys were 1st or 2nd rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Below are all of the WR 2nd round picks from 00-05. I have rated them the following manner: 1. All Pro 2. Quality Starter 3. Weak Starter or decent #3 4. A player that for some reason overstayed their welcome in the NFL 5. A bust Dennis Northcut 4 Todd Pinkston 4 Jerry Porter 4 Quincy Morgan 4 Chad Johnson 1 Robert Ferguson 2 Chris Chambers 2 Jabar Gaffney 3 Josh Reed 3 Tim Carter 5 Andre Davis 4 Reche Caldwell 4 Antwann Randle El 3 Antonio Bryant 3 Deion Branch 2 Taylor Jacobs 5 Bethel Johnson 4 Anquan Boldin 1 Tyrone Calico 4 Devery Henderson 3 Darius Watts 5 Keary Colbert 5 Reggie Brown 3 Mark Bradley 5 Roscoe Parrish 3 Terrence Murphy 5 Vincent Jackson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 My point was to show that WR drafted in the first 2-3 rounds get the benefit of more playing time in their early years. Cris Carter, for example, is a player that did not produce his first year (5 rec, 84 yds), but he was 4th rounder significantly hindering his PT early. And Andre Reed was a 4th rounder that played every game his rookie year. Didn't hinder his play at all. He came into the league in the same year as Rice and had one less reception and one more TD than the greatest to ever play the position. You have a moot point. GO BILL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 My point is so obvious that I don't even need to go beyond last year for research. Here are the top 20 receivers last year statistically who didn't produce their rookie seasons. Steve Smith - 3RD ROUND - I'LL GIVE YOU SMITH 10 rec 0 TDs Roddy White - LATE 1ST ROUND - THIS IS A PRODUCTIVE ROOKIE SEASON 29 rec 3 TDs Brandon Marshall - HAD 3x YDS AND 2x REC AS HARDY, PLUS A 4TH ROUNDER 20 rec 2 TDs Wes Welker - UNDRAFTED FREE AGENT 0 rec in first two seasons combined, 0 TDs Santana Moss - HURT ALMOST HIS ENTIRE ROOKIE SEASON 2 rec 0 TDs Hines Ward - 3RD ROUND - I'LL GIVE YOU WARD EVEN THOUGH 2.5x YDS AND 1.5x REC 15 rec 0 TDs Derrick Mason - 4TH ROUND 14 rec 0 TDs Donald Driver - 7TH ROUND 3 rec 1 TD Vincent Jackson - 2ND ROUND - I'LL GIVE YOU JACKSON I don't even need to look past one year to justify my point. Imagine all of the other receivers in years past who had crappy rookie years. A bunch of those guys were 1st or 2nd rounders. There are definitely examples - but Hardy needs to show us something to stick around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koosh Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 He proved nothing in the 14 games he was there. On top of which, now he is hurt, further impairing his ability. Just because he was picked in the 2nd round doesn't mean he deserves to stay. Should we have kept Erik Flowers because he was a 1st, how about Tavares Tillman - he was a 2nd. Bucky Brooks? Todd Collins? John Parella? People get too caught up with the fact that Hardy was a 2nd rounder. Getting drafted high doesn't mean you're good. It is more likely that you are good, but doesn't mean you are good. FYI - John Parella became a solid starter for a very good San Diego team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 And Andre Reed was a 4th rounder that played every game his rookie year. Didn't hinder his play at all. He came into the league in the same year as Rice and had one less reception and one more TD than the greatest to ever play the position. You have a moot point. GO BILL!!! I wouldn't compare Hardy to Reed. Reed was an absolute phenom. Marques Colston was also a 7th rounder who was an opening day starter. I am not saying it can't be done, but the further down you go in the draft, the less likely you are to get playing time in light of ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 FYI - John Parella became a solid starter for a very good San Diego team. Agreed. You win some, you lose some. If coaches/management were that good a judge of talent, Tom Brady would have been a 1st round pick and Mike Williams would have went undrafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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