Question re: Somali pirates

[BillsWatch]

Once again NATO catches and releases. UN needs to find a way to get a handle on this situation.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090419/ap_on_re_af/piracy

 

The pirates hurled weapons into the dark seas as the Canadian and U.S. warships closed in.

 

"The skiff abandoned the scene and tried to escape to Somali territory," Fernandes said. "It was heading toward Bossaso we managed to track them ... warning shots have been made after several attempts to stop the vessel." Both ships deployed helicopters, and naval officers hailed the pirates over loudspeakers and finally fired warning shots to stop them, Fernandes said, but not before the pirates had dumped most of their weapons overboard. NATO forces boarded the skiff, where they found a rocket-propelled grenade, and interrogated, disarmed and released the pirates.

[PushthePile]

That is like saying you shouldn't shoot armed rioters breaking into a store because in past some other urban dwellers were poorly treated. Each should be treated separately.

I agree G. Host. Getting to the root of the problem should be the ultimate goal. Protecting innocent lives and preventing armed robbery is the immediate goal. You can't protect yourself with a hug and chat. What is happening in Somalia is horrible, but we shouldn't have to take the responsibility of fixing it. We got our own problems.

[/dev/null]

Once again NATO catches and releases.

 

Maybe the pirates didn't meet the size limits

[nick in* england]

I'm back at work tomorrow after vacation - so I'll see what new info i can cough up for you guys on what's really been happening.

[Scraps]

I wouldn't say "analogous" as much as I would say "strikingly similar".

 

I also suspect, at this point, that the similarity is beyond your comprehension.

 

Pretty much the vacuous statement I expected.

 

They strike me as strikingly dissimilar in terms of goals. U boats set out to sink ships, Somali Pirate set out to capture ships.

 

They strike me as strikingly dissimilar in terms of, motivation (serving country in a time of war vs money).

 

They strike me as strikingly dissimilar in terms of tactics.

 

They strike me as strikingly dissimilar in terms of capabilities. U boats were built to sink ships, 15 foot skiffs aren't.

 

What is so strikingly similar?

[BUFFALOTONE]

Completely unfeasible. You're talking about diverting around the Cape - which adds thousands of miles onto the journeys.

its not unfeasible. 2 of our ships carrying aid to Mombasa and pakistan have done it. the reason you do not arm the crew is:

 

1. they are not trained mercs or soldiers, yeah they can probably shoot but its a huge liability to the company

2. there insurance would go through the roof, there premiums which are ridiculous as it is would all sink some companies (no pun intended)

 

Depending on where you are going taking the route around the Cape is not that bad. Most companies dont do it because they take a chance against the pirates. Its a big risk but 1 smaller companies are willing to take.

[nick in* england]

link here explains lots of detail: http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/resea.../snbt-03794.pdf

 

release from UK today:

 

CMF and NATO Ships Help Thwart Two Pirate Attacks

From Combined Maritime Forces Public Affairs

MANAMA, Bahrain - The British military support ship Royal Fleet Auxiliary (RFA) Wave Knight (A389) working in support of the Combined Maritime Forces (CMF), thwarted two pirate attacks on merchant vessels in the Gulf of Aden, April 18, which resulted in the release of 13 hostages and disrupted the activities of 14 Somali pirates.

“This is a clear demonstration of how cooperation between more than a dozen international naval forces can result in the successful disruption of piracy activity,” said Royal Navy Commodore Tim Lowe, Deputy Commander of the Combined Maritime Forces. “In the last 72 hours alone, coordinated efforts of six different nations resulted in the release of 49 innocent merchant mariners who had been held hostage by armed pirates, as well as the interception of 46 suspected pirates.”

Lowe cautioned that naval forces will not be the sole solution to piracy, but by coordinating international naval efforts, criminal acts of piracy will continue to be disrupted.

While working in conjunction with international naval forces deployed to the region, Wave Knight received a distress call at approximately 8:00 a.m. from Merchant Vessel Handy Tankers Magic, which was under attack by pirates.

The attack broke off before Wave Knight arrived, but the Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship followed the skiff to a fishing dhow, later confirmed to be a pirate “mother ship.” Via radio, Wave Knight ordered the dhow to stop and used a Royal Navy armed force protection team as well as the ship’s own weapons team to provide cover. The pirate vessel complied.

Dutch warship HNLMS De Zeven Provincien (F802), deployed as part of the NATO’s Standing Naval Maritime Group 1 (SNMG-1), arrived on-scene and determined there were pirates and hostages aboard the vessel. Ultimately, 13 fishermen who had been held hostage by pirates since April 12, were freed and able to return home to Yemen. Since the seven suspected pirates aboard the dhow were not captured in the act of piracy they were released, but they were disarmed and their weapons destroyed.

Two hours later, Wave Knight received a second distress call from Merchant Vessel Front Ardennes. Wave Knight arrived on scene and successfully deterred the skiff and prevented the pirates from boarding the tanker. Following repeated warnings to move away, Wave Knight fired warning shots, which caused the pirates to break off their attack and flee the scene.

With the assistance of helicopters from the NATO task group ships HMCS Winnipeg (FFH 338) and USS Halyburton (FFG 40), Wave Knight followed the pirate skiff for six hours, until relieved on-scene by Winnipeg, who conducted a boarding of the skiff. Wave Knight provided fuel and landing facilities for the NATO warships’ helicopters and was able to manoeuvre into a position to stop the suspected pirates, allowing Winnipeg’s boarding team to disarm and then subsequently release the suspected pirates.

“RFA Wave Knight is a modern replenishment ship designed to be able to support a myriad of Coalition maritime operations,” said Royal Fleet Auxiliary Capt. I. N. Phillips, Wave Knight’s Commanding Officer. “Our primary role is refuelling and aviation operations, but we are fully capable of conducting anti-piracy operations in and around the Horn of Africa. We have been on station for over a year providing support to many nations, and we remain committed to helping ensure maritime security.”

CMF is comprised of 23 nations whose role is to conduct Maritime Security Operations (MSO) throughout the region to help set the conditions for security and stability in the maritime environment. Maritime Security Operations help develop security in the maritime environment, which promotes stability and global prosperity.

[Fan in San Diego]

link here explains lots of detail: http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/resea.../snbt-03794.pdf

 

release from UK today:

 

CMF and NATO Ships Help Thwart Two Pirate Attacks

From Combined Maritime Forces Public Affairs

MANAMA, Bahrain - The British military support ship Royal Fleet Auxiliary (RFA) Wave Knight (A389) working in support of the Combined Maritime Forces (CMF), thwarted two pirate attacks on merchant vessels in the Gulf of Aden, April 18, which resulted in the release of 13 hostages and disrupted the activities of 14 Somali pirates.

“This is a clear demonstration of how cooperation between more than a dozen international naval forces can result in the successful disruption of piracy activity,” said Royal Navy Commodore Tim Lowe, Deputy Commander of the Combined Maritime Forces. “In the last 72 hours alone, coordinated efforts of six different nations resulted in the release of 49 innocent merchant mariners who had been held hostage by armed pirates, as well as the interception of 46 suspected pirates.”

Lowe cautioned that naval forces will not be the sole solution to piracy, but by coordinating international naval efforts, criminal acts of piracy will continue to be disrupted.

While working in conjunction with international naval forces deployed to the region, Wave Knight received a distress call at approximately 8:00 a.m. from Merchant Vessel Handy Tankers Magic, which was under attack by pirates.

The attack broke off before Wave Knight arrived, but the Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship followed the skiff to a fishing dhow, later confirmed to be a pirate “mother ship.” Via radio, Wave Knight ordered the dhow to stop and used a Royal Navy armed force protection team as well as the ship’s own weapons team to provide cover. The pirate vessel complied.

Dutch warship HNLMS De Zeven Provincien (F802), deployed as part of the NATO’s Standing Naval Maritime Group 1 (SNMG-1), arrived on-scene and determined there were pirates and hostages aboard the vessel. Ultimately, 13 fishermen who had been held hostage by pirates since April 12, were freed and able to return home to Yemen. Since the seven suspected pirates aboard the dhow were not captured in the act of piracy they were released, but they were disarmed and their weapons destroyed.

Two hours later, Wave Knight received a second distress call from Merchant Vessel Front Ardennes. Wave Knight arrived on scene and successfully deterred the skiff and prevented the pirates from boarding the tanker. Following repeated warnings to move away, Wave Knight fired warning shots, which caused the pirates to break off their attack and flee the scene.

With the assistance of helicopters from the NATO task group ships HMCS Winnipeg (FFH 338) and USS Halyburton (FFG 40), Wave Knight followed the pirate skiff for six hours, until relieved on-scene by Winnipeg, who conducted a boarding of the skiff. Wave Knight provided fuel and landing facilities for the NATO warships’ helicopters and was able to manoeuvre into a position to stop the suspected pirates, allowing Winnipeg’s boarding team to disarm and then subsequently release the suspected pirates.

“RFA Wave Knight is a modern replenishment ship designed to be able to support a myriad of Coalition maritime operations,” said Royal Fleet Auxiliary Capt. I. N. Phillips, Wave Knight’s Commanding Officer. “Our primary role is refuelling and aviation operations, but we are fully capable of conducting anti-piracy operations in and around the Horn of Africa. We have been on station for over a year providing support to many nations, and we remain committed to helping ensure maritime security.”

CMF is comprised of 23 nations whose role is to conduct Maritime Security Operations (MSO) throughout the region to help set the conditions for security and stability in the maritime environment. Maritime Security Operations help develop security in the maritime environment, which promotes stability and global prosperity.

 

Nick why not just carry soldiers on the shipping vessals armed to the teeth?

[nick in* england]

And as I promised, as of 1 April 2009, the UK MOD position on Piracy is as follows. I have taken the top bits from the briefing document that I use to brief journalists on a daily basis.

 

• The Royal Navy is actively countering piracy around the Horn of Africa and supports international efforts to do so.
  
• Events in the region have demonstrated not only the importance of our armed forces' global presence, but also the high level of UK cross-government engagement and international cooperation, necessary to counter-piracy effectively.
  
• The Royal Navy is actively participating in counter piracy activities off the Horn of Africa, as well as coming to the aid of those under attack. All its actions are in accordance with international law.
  
• We are at the forefront of the European Union mission – Operation ATALANTA – established to escort World Food Programme vessels bringing aid to Somalia, protect vulnerable shipping, and to counter piracy in the region. We are providing the Operation Commander and the Operation HQ at Northwood.
  
• The Royal Navy provides frigates to the Combined Maritime Force conducting maritime security operations in the region. As part of this, HMS PORTLAND is conducting counter piracy missions, on a case by case basis, through Combined Task Force 151.
  
• The UK continues to work with the International community to tackle piracy at its root – instability in Somalia – through the provision of humanitarian and development assistance.
  

 

In 2008 the UK Government adopted a more proactive posture with regards to piracy off the Somali coast.

 

The UK is engaged in efforts to combat acts of piracy off Somalia, latterly as part of Combined Task Force (CTF) 150 and more recently, when required, through the newly established, counter piracy specific, CTF 151. RN vessels are continuing to actively conduct operations to counter de-stabilising activities primarily aimed at deterring and disrupting acts of smuggling and counter terrorism.

 

Following EU Ministers’ agreement on 10 Nov 08 to launch, the first ever ESDP naval operation, Op ATALANTA, declared Initial Operating Capability on 13 Dec with a one year mandate. The UK is at the forefront of this mission, providing the Operation Commander (Rear Admiral Phil Jones RN) and the Operation HQ at Northwood. The Royal Navy also provided a frigate, HMS NORTHUMBERLAND, for the first three months of the operation. ATALANTA is already regarded as a high profile political success for ESDP.

 

Piracy is a symptom of wider issues and the UK continues to work with the International community to tackle them at their root, through the provision of humanitarian and development assistance. This year, the UK is providing £30m of humanitarian and development assistance. We are encouraging the European Commission and other partners to increase targeted support for governance/economic development, in particular in coastal areas.

 

In line with UN Security Council Resolution 1851, the international Contact Group on Piracy off the Coast of Somalia has met on two occasions to discuss an international response to piracy. The Contact Group is currently attended by 27 countries and 5 organisations, including UK representatives. The UK is leading a Working Group on how to strengthen international coordination, including taking forward work on regional capacity building.

 

The UK set up an arrangement with the Kenyan Government which allows the transfer of suspected pirates to Kenya for prosecution. In cases in which suspected pirates are detained during operations, if it is considered that there is sufficient evidence on which to charge them they will be detained and transferred under the terms of this agreement for prosecution.

 

Standing NATO Maritime Group 2, including attached RN units deployed to the region with a mandate which allowed them to conduct counter-piracy operations from mid-October. The NATO mission came to an end on 4 December.

 

All actions taken by the RN are in accordance with international law. Under UNCLOS all States have a duty to cooperate in the repression of piracy. RN vessels and coalition forces in the region seek to deter and disrupt pirate activity, and RN vessels can actively search for suspected pirate vessels. These can be boarded and any piracy equipment can be seized and, if it is not practicable to keep it, destroyed. The RN can also take robust action to come to the aid of a victim vessel under attack by pirates in international waters. This can again range from deterring and disrupting the attack to the use of reasonable force to defend the victims.

 

Every incident of piracy is different and RN personnel undergo maritime security training that provides them with the ability to deal with circumstances that require such intervention.

 

 

Q. This increase in piracy will be a greater threat to UK shipping and UK crew members – what is being done about this?

 

A. In most parts of the world, incidents of piracy and maritime armed robbery are decreasing; however, it is true that there is an increase in attacks off Somalia. Clearly any act of piracy causes great concern; however, the number of incidents remains relatively small and only affects a tiny percentage of merchant traffic (0.4%) in the area. DfT provides information to UK ships on threats they may face and the FCO is working with international partners to identify ways of preventing further attacks.

 

Q. What will happen if the piracy off Somalia gets worse?

 

A.. The threat from all illegal activity at sea in the Gulf region is constantly reviewed and employment of units adjusted accordingly – RN units be they part of an international mission or operating independently will be prepared to meet HMG’s obligations regarding piracy should the situation dictate and, if requested, may provide support to other Government Departments engaged in resolving incidents

 

Q. What is the UK doing to assist the coordination of all the military vessels in the region?

 

A. UK officials were in attendance at the international Contact Group on Piracy off the Coast of Somalia, which is discussing a coherent international response to this difficult problem. Subsequently the UK, with the support of the International Maritime Organization, is leading a Working Group addressing activities related to military and operational information coordination, including taking forward work on regional capacity building.

 

However, coordination between international naval forces is already considered effective, notably between Op ATALANTA and the Combined Maritime Forces, resulting in an unprecedented amount of multi-national cooperation. This has been possible through the innovative use of a RN web-based chat room, FEXWEB, allowing registered military users to share information in a restricted access forum. CMF ensures that tactical deconfliction between all the ships and nations operating in the Gulf of Aden occurs and that there is a good level of shared awareness

 

Q Should private security companies be used to protect shipping?

 

A The MOD does not condone the use of armed security companies by the shipping industry to counter pirates in the region. A broad range of advice, including evasion tactics, can be sought from the Department for Transport, Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Maritime Security Centre Horn of Africa website for ships transiting through the Horn of Africa.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I'm wondering if having the shipping companies hire Black Water type security companies to ride along with these ships would be more cost effective than paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in ransom.

 

It is all about the bottom line and keeping shipping prices down so as the price of the product for the end user doesn't go up... We don't want shipping costs to be so expensive that it is cost effective to make them actually here in the goo ole (safe) US of A.

 

 

Kinda funny how the UK is fighting "piracy"... Wasn't it (that is the British Empire) built on "piracy." That is the British Empire.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not sypathetic to the pirates... They got what was coming.

 

I just find this problem to be deeply ironic.

[Stussy109]

Pretty much the vacuous statement I expected.

 

They strike me as strikingly dissimilar in terms of goals. U boats set out to sink ships, Somali Pirate set out to capture ships.

 

They strike me as strikingly dissimilar in terms of, motivation (serving country in a time of war vs money).

 

They strike me as strikingly dissimilar in terms of tactics.

 

They strike me as strikingly dissimilar in terms of capabilities. U boats were built to sink ships, 15 foot skiffs aren't.

 

What is so strikingly similar?

 

U Boats disrupted sea trade, as do Pirated mother ships and skiffs armed with Machine Guns and grenade launchers. Quit thinking so hard and trying to look smart. if a thief steals your car and either A)blows it up, or B)takes it from you to drive and listen to your mp3 player, you still don't have a car.