Everette Brown

[thebandit27]

Dwight Freeney is 6'1".

 

He may be listed at 6'1", but I met him on campus at Syracuse, and--unless he's grown a few inches since his Senior year--he's under 6 feet for sure.

 

What's great about him is that he uses his height (or lack thereof) to get tiny around the corner and accellerate through to the QB, I love watching him.

[Billsguy]

This has Erik Flowers written all over it.

 

Well said!

 

There are offensive lineman who are needed badly who would be available at 11. Think OT's.

 

Peters is a goner and the top pick must be one of the premium tackles. Period.

[Leonidas]

I realize that he had limited playing time, but I can't fathom why a guy with Ayers' limited production in college is rated as highly as he is

 

I've been wondering the same thing. Did he really do that well at the Senior Bowl???

 

No offense, but it looks like you and I are on opposite ends of the POV spectrum, bourbon.

 

1. It's totally possible for Raji to be there at 11. I agree that it'd be a mistake for 10 teams to pass on him, but looking at the variety of needs in the top 10, and as many as 4 OTs, 3 WRs, and 2 QBs going there, Raji could indeed find himself still on the board at 11.

 

2. I realize that he had limited playing time, but I can't fathom why a guy with Ayers' limited production in college is rated as highly as he is...however, his style of play is as much like Denney's and Kelsay's as Rian Lindell's is like William "The Refrigerator" Perry's.

 

3. From what I hear, the likelihood of both Orakpo and Brown being available at 11 is getting greater and greater. As I said, there will likely be 4 OTs, at least 2 QBs, and at least 2 WRs in the top 10, with another possible QB and WR each. The math is starting to look right for one or both of them to fall.

 

Hmm...what are you hearing? I haven't heard anything about Orakpo falling out of the top 10 (although I'd love it). What about Connor Barwin in the second round? He had 10 sacks in one season at DE and lit up the combine. I understand Cincinnatti didn't play anybody all that good but running a sub-4.5 40 at his pro day is impressive. Next to Sidbury he's the fastest DE out there, and beat Sid in the 20 yard shuttle. Would he be worth a look in the second round? His level of competition and lack of strength (21 reps) lead me to believe he's more of a 3-4 OLB (just what we need more of in this draft).

 

I have sincere doubts about both Maybin and Brown as NFL pass rushers. I like Brown better because he's been more consistent over a longer period of time, but I absolutely hate FSU's defensive scheme, which does virtually nothing to prepare a DE for NFL style OTs. My personal opinion is that an NFL team would be wise to pass on a highly-rated DE and go with a guy like Larry English if he's around in round 2. He's just as explosive an athlete, had 23 sacks over the course of his Junior and Senior seasons, and is (in my opinion) more NFL ready as a pass rush specialist.

 

I have this terrible feeling that this is one of those situations where this is no right answer, as in every DE available to us at that point (Brown, Maybin, Ayers, Johnson, Sidbury, Barwin) will be a bust. Talk about a crapshoot, though.

 

There are offensive lineman who are needed badly who would be available at 11. Think OT's.

 

Peters is a goner and the top pick must be one of the premium tackles. Period.

 

Period? What if the next tackle won't go for fifteen picks? What if the three top OT's are gone (even if Andre Smith falls to us I don't want him, but that's another discussion altogether) and the next one will be available to us at our traded down spot (let's say, #21). Still take one at #11? I don't think so.

[Ramius]

The FSU lineage scares me. He also puffed up his stats against bad Olines. He had 2 sacks against Cattanooga. 3 against Clemson who had a notoriusly bad Oline. Only 3 of his sacks, all in one game (Va Tech), came against ranked teams. I wrote this before about FSU DE's, they have zero responibilities, they line up at 9-11 technique over the most open man and and get upfield. This is why teams run counters all day against the Noles. Very similar to what the Pats did to us two years ago. No thanks, I'd rather have Maybin. He plays with a mean streak and has and unreal first step.

 

Thank you for showing that you know absolutely nothing about FSU's players or defense.

 

If anyone in this thread wants the info on brown, strengths and weaknesses, feel free to PM me.

[Leonidas]

Thank you for showing that you know absolutely nothing about FSU's players or defense.

 

If anyone in this thread wants the info on brown, strengths and weaknesses, feel free to PM me.

 

I would love to know them. All I know is what I've seen on youtube, brief snippets on ESPN and NFL.com, and his stats from the Combine. Please share.

[thebandit27]

I've been wondering the same thing. Did he really do that well at the Senior Bowl???

 

 

 

Hmm...what are you hearing? I haven't heard anything about Orakpo falling out of the top 10 (although I'd love it). What about Connor Barwin in the second round? He had 10 sacks in one season at DE and lit up the combine. I understand Cincinnatti didn't play anybody all that good but running a sub-4.5 40 at his pro day is impressive. Next to Sidbury he's the fastest DE out there, and beat Sid in the 20 yard shuttle. Would he be worth a look in the second round? His level of competition and lack of strength (21 reps) lead me to believe he's more of a 3-4 OLB (just what we need more of in this draft).

 

 

 

I have this terrible feeling that this is one of those situations where this is no right answer, as in every DE available to us at that point (Brown, Maybin, Ayers, Johnson, Sidbury, Barwin) will be a bust. Talk about a crapshoot, though.

 

 

 

Period? What if the next tackle won't go for fifteen picks? What if the three top OT's are gone (even if Andre Smith falls to us I don't want him, but that's another discussion altogether) and the next one will be available to us at our traded down spot (let's say, #21). Still take one at #11? I don't think so.

 

- Ayers did look good at the Senior Bowl, and had a good combine as well, but I've always felt that workouts and such should be used to confirm what the tape shows, not to change opinions completely.

 

- Barwin is a tremendous athlete, but I wouldn't spend more than a 3rd rounder on him right now. Don't get me wrong, there simply has to be a roster spot for that guy on an NFL team, given all the things he can do on the field, but how much he's ready to contribute in year 1 or even year 2 is a major question. Mostly because he didn't spend a whole lot of time at any one position, so his football IQ is relatively low relative to positional dynamics, assignments, etc.

 

- Totally agree on the DE situation. I don't like any of them enough for the #11 pick. There are a few, however, that I believe would carry excellent value at #42: English and Sidbury.

 

- Regarding what I'm hearing about the top 10: My information comes from my best friend's brother, who is a junior scout for an NFL franchise (obviously, I wouldn't disrespect him by saying which one), so it's safe to say that he doesn't have any say over draft boards, and doesn't have any more "inside" info than anyone else on this board, but rather a slightly-more-educated opinion. He told me (via e-mail) that he'd buy me a huge dinner at the restaurant of my choice if all 4 top OTs (Smith, Smith, Monroe, and Oher) weren't gone in the top 10, just based on how their organization values them. My deductive reasoning says to add in Curry, Stafford, Crabtree, Maclin, and Sanchez as highly-likely top-10 selections. That leaves only one of Raji, Brown, and Orakpo to fill out the top 10.

 

- As far as 1st round OTs outside the top 10, Eben Britton could go as high as 20, but is much more likely to drop past 25 and perhaps even to Pittsburgh at 32. Anybody that takes William Beatty in round 1, as many are forecasting could happen, is getting a little over-zealous.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Thank you for showing that you know absolutely nothing about FSU's players or defense.

 

If anyone in this thread wants the info on brown, strengths and weaknesses, feel free to PM me.

This is a ridiculous reply. There is nothing in my post that is not dead on.

 

-Did he get 5 of his sacks against Chatenooga and Clemson, who's OLine was being blasted going all the way back to there ptiful spring game? YES

 

-Did he get a sack against any other ranked team besides Va Tech? NO

 

-Do FSU D Ends line up outside of the open man and play with zero responsibilty? YES

 

 

Just because you are a FSU Superfan doesn't mean that you have a clue what is going on during the games. Please tell me where I am wrong and please be specific.

[Rockinon]

Raji is a beast and can certainly collapse a pocket.....even at the NFL level. Him next to Stroud would cause serious mismatches. You can't double both of them. I like it.

[Magox]

This is a ridiculous reply. There is nothing in my post that is not dead on.

 

-Did he get 5 of his sacks against Chatenooga and Clemson, who's OLine was being blasted going all the way back to there ptiful spring game? YES

 

-Did he get a sack against any other ranked team besides Va Tech? NO

 

-Do FSU D Ends line up outside of the open man and play with zero responsibilty? YES

 

 

Just because you are a FSU Superfan doesn't mean that you have a clue what is going on during the games. Please tell me where I am wrong and please be specific.

May I remind you that Clemson going into last year was ranked in the top #20 in the nation in just about every preseason ranking and as high as #7 by espn #11 by SI .

 

http://www.thefootballexpert.com/collegefo...ings080001.html

 

http://cfn.scout.com/2/720771.html

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/stor...&id=3388100

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/foot...5/rankings0811/

 

when you mentioned Clemson earlier, it didn't make sense to me that you brought them up. The mention of Clemson is a supporting argument for Brown, not a detracting one.

[Leonidas]

- Ayers did look good at the Senior Bowl, and had a good combine as well, but I've always felt that workouts and such should be used to confirm what the tape shows, not to change opinions completely.

 

- Barwin is a tremendous athlete, but I wouldn't spend more than a 3rd rounder on him right now. Don't get me wrong, there simply has to be a roster spot for that guy on an NFL team, given all the things he can do on the field, but how much he's ready to contribute in year 1 or even year 2 is a major question. Mostly because he didn't spend a whole lot of time at any one position, so his football IQ is relatively low relative to positional dynamics, assignments, etc.

 

- Totally agree on the DE situation. I don't like any of them enough for the #11 pick. There are a few, however, that I believe would carry excellent value at #42: English and Sidbury.

 

- Regarding what I'm hearing about the top 10: My information comes from my best friend's brother, who is a junior scout for an NFL franchise (obviously, I wouldn't disrespect him by saying which one), so it's safe to say that he doesn't have any say over draft boards, and doesn't have any more "inside" info than anyone else on this board, but rather a slightly-more-educated opinion. He told me (via e-mail) that he'd buy me a huge dinner at the restaurant of my choice if all 4 top OTs (Smith, Smith, Monroe, and Oher) weren't gone in the top 10, just based on how their organization values them. My deductive reasoning says to add in Curry, Stafford, Crabtree, Maclin, and Sanchez as highly-likely top-10 selections. That leaves only one of Raji, Brown, and Orakpo to fill out the top 10.

 

- As far as 1st round OTs outside the top 10, Eben Britton could go as high as 20, but is much more likely to drop past 25 and perhaps even to Pittsburgh at 32. Anybody that takes William Beatty in round 1, as many are forecasting could happen, is getting a little over-zealous.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

That's all pretty interesting, thanks for the insight. Here's a few questions I have:

 

• how is it that Sidbury is a 2nd round pick now? He was projected at the 4th-6th round prior to the Combine. Did his 40 time alone propel him that high? He was good at Richmond, but he wasn't T-Suggs good.
  
• will Oher go top 10? I haven't seen any mocks that have that. Is he a legit tackle prospect? I am terrified of Andre Smith and don't want the Bills to touch him.
  
• By your calculations Orapko or Raji should be there at #11. If it's one of them or Oher, what do you think (assuming Peters is gone)?
  
• I've seen mocks with Beatty going in the first round, but even being a UConn alum I've never seen him. Is he not worth the pick?
  
• With Barwin's stock so high from a great Combine/pro day performance, it almost seems like he's a lock to go in the second round. A reach? People are calling him a Vrabel clone, but even Vrabel didn't do all that much early in his career.
  

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

May I remind you that Clemson going into last year was ranked in the top #20 in the nation in just about every preseason ranking and as high as #7 by espn #11 by SI .

 

http://www.thefootballexpert.com/collegefo...ings080001.html

 

http://cfn.scout.com/2/720771.html

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/stor...&id=3388100

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/foot...5/rankings0811/

 

when you mentioned Clemson earlier, it didn't make sense to me that you brought them up. The mention of Clemson is a supporting argument for Brown, not a detracting one.

[/quote

LSU was ranked in the PRE SEASON TOP 10 as well, where did they wind up? Clemson sucked so bad that they got their coach fired mid season. Pre Season polls dont tell you much about a team.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

The FSU lineage scares me. He also puffed up his stats against bad Olines. He had 2 sacks against Cattanooga. 3 against Clemson who had a notoriusly bad Oline. Only 3 of his sacks, all in one game (Va Tech), came against ranked teams. I wrote this before about FSU DE's, they have zero responibilities, they line up at 9-11 technique over the most open man and and get upfield. This is why teams run counters all day against the Noles. Very similar to what the Pats did to us two years ago. No thanks, I'd rather have Maybin. He plays with a mean streak and has and unreal first step.

Same thing about Maybin ,sacks against scrubs,Shut out by average players. Not one lineman he went against are 1st rd picks. Geesh

[In space no one can hear]

I don't remember a draft where there is such a gap between peoples perceptions of what particular players values are.

 

I have seen Everette Brown compared to Erik Flowers on this board and IMHO nothing could be further from the truth.

 

Brown has been extremely productive at FSU, has a wide variety of pass rush moves(anyone who claims otherwise is completely misinformed) gives a 110% and would be a great addition to the Bills defense.

 

Browns biggest downfall is a measurable one. He was a certain top 10 pick until he measured a bit shorter than scouts expected him to be at the combine.

 

Brown literally explodes off of the line of scrimmage, he's the type of player Bills fans have been clamoring for-

for years, now that he might be staring us in the face at pick 11, he surely deserves serious consideration.

[Magox]

May I remind you that Clemson going into last year was ranked in the top #20 in the nation in just about every preseason ranking and as high as #7 by espn #11 by SI .

 

http://www.thefootballexpert.com/collegefo...ings080001.html

 

http://cfn.scout.com/2/720771.html

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/stor...&id=3388100

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/foot...5/rankings0811/

 

when you mentioned Clemson earlier, it didn't make sense to me that you brought them up. The mention of Clemson is a supporting argument for Brown, not a detracting one.

LSU was ranked in the PRE SEASON TOP 10 as well, where did they wind up? Clemson sucked so bad that they got their coach fired mid season. Pre Season polls dont tell you much about a team.

You're not getting the point. LSU didn't do well, but they still had a lot of talent, just as Clemson did. Sure they did terrible by their standards, but you mention them like they are some Division III college talent. Let's be real here, LSU and Clemson failed and didn't live up to their expectations, but they were still better than most college teams. So like I said, it wasn't a good example.

[Magox]

That's all pretty interesting, thanks for the insight. Here's a few questions I have:

 

• how is it that Sidbury is a 2nd round pick now? He was projected at the 4th-6th round prior to the Combine. Did his 40 time alone propel him that high? He was good at Richmond, but he wasn't T-Suggs good.
  
• will Oher go top 10? I haven't seen any mocks that have that. Is he a legit tackle prospect? I am terrified of Andre Smith and don't want the Bills to touch him.
  
• By your calculations Orapko or Raji should be there at #11. If it's one of them or Oher, what do you think (assuming Peters is gone)?
  
• I've seen mocks with Beatty going in the first round, but even being a UConn alum I've never seen him. Is he not worth the pick?
  
• With Barwin's stock so high from a great Combine/pro day performance, it almost seems like he's a lock to go in the second round. A reach? People are calling him a Vrabel clone, but even Vrabel didn't do all that much early in his career.
  

Sidbury shot up the draft boards because of his combine. I believe he was the fastest Lineman that attended, and he ran the 40 in 4.57. So he's athletic.

 

Regarding Oher, I think coaches like him because he has been playing at a consistant high level. He was All American last season, and has a huge frame. He's more of a road grader than anything else. I think he's gonna be solid.

 

Unlike Bandit, I don't think Orapko or Raji will be there at #11. High Quality DE's and DT's are always at a premium, and these two are the highest or one of the highest this year has to offer.

 

Barwin is intriguing in my view. He showed a lot of promise for having 1 year as a DE considering his production, couple that with his athleticism, I think this guy has tremendous upside. If his work ethic can match his athleticism, I think this could be a project that can pay off in a big way. Tough to say how he will be used, my guess is that he will be picked up as a 3-4 rushing LB.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

LSU was ranked in the PRE SEASON TOP 10 as well, where did they wind up? Clemson sucked so bad that they got their coach fired mid season. Pre Season polls dont tell you much about a team.

 

You're not getting the point. LSU didn't do well, but they still had a lot of talent, just as Clemson did. Sure they did terrible by their standards, but you mention them like they are some Division III college talent. Let's be real here, LSU and Clemson failed and didn't live up to their expectations, but they were still better than most college teams. So like I said, it wasn't a good example.

If you paid attention to college football this year you would have known that Clemson's offensive line was notriously bad. Going into the season their Oline was looked at as their achillies heal and went on to prove it throughout the year. And Clemson was not very good this year but It sounds like you don't pay attention to college football.

 

"I think you have to look at the offensive line. Only one full-time starter - junior center Thomas Austin - returns from 2007. Beyond him, the line has nine starts of experience, seven from junior right guard Barry Humphries. Junior left guard Jamarcus Grant will be making his first career start and has only 86 snaps in his first two seasons. Can they protect Cullen Harper and open up holes for James Davis and C.J. Spiller? We'll see. (Quote from article below in August)

http://blog.al.com/bamabeat/2008/08/the_ot...de_clemson.html

 

More Clemson Oline troubles from mid season

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=863509

 

My point was Brown got his sacks against some very bad teams with BAD OFFENSIVE LINES.

[Magox]

If you paid attention to college football this year you would have known that Clemson's offensive line was notriously bad. Going into the season their Oline was looked at as their achillies heal and went on to prove it throughout the year. And Clemson was not very good this year but It sounds like you don't pay attention to college football.

 

"I think you have to look at the offensive line. Only one full-time starter - junior center Thomas Austin - returns from 2007. Beyond him, the line has nine starts of experience, seven from junior right guard Barry Humphries. Junior left guard Jamarcus Grant will be making his first career start and has only 86 snaps in his first two seasons. Can they protect Cullen Harper and open up holes for James Davis and C.J. Spiller? We'll see. (Quote from article below in August)

http://blog.al.com/bamabeat/2008/08/the_ot...de_clemson.html

 

More Clemson Oline troubles from mid season

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=863509

 

My point was Brown got his sacks against some very bad teams with BAD OFFENSIVE LINES.

gettin snippy are we?

 

I watch plenty of ACC football as I am Carolina Tarheel fan, so Saturday afternoons for me, it is all about ACC football, so I'm sure I watch more of it then you do.

 

You sir, are the king of generalizations. I loved the generalization you made regarding white guys with long hair the other day, remember that one? And Florida State DE's suck because of past performance and the system they play, remember that one too? These are your comments and you have to realize that it is hard to take anyone serious that makes these sort of generalizations. Makes sense?

 

All though Clemson lost 4 starters from the prior season, they still had a better offensive line than your run of the mill college football team.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

gettin snippy are we?

 

I watch plenty of ACC football as I am Carolina Tarheel fan, so Saturday afternoons for me, it is all about ACC football, so I'm sure I watch more of it then you do.

 

You sir, are the king of generalizations. I loved the generalization you made regarding white guys with long hair the other day, remember that one? And Florida State DE's suck because of past performance and the system they play, remember that one too? These are your comments and you have to realize that it is hard to take anyone serious that makes these sort of generalizations. Makes sense?

 

All though Clemson lost 4 starters from the prior season, they still had a better offensive line than your run in the mill college football team.

The long hair thing/ stiff hips comment was a cheap shot at Poz and the fans infatuation with him. So the fact that you took that seriously makes you look very dumb.

 

And Yes, you will see a correlation between the FSU DEnds because Mickey Andrews has been the DC since the mid 80's. And if you don't think systems are part of the reason why college players have trouble with transitioning then again, you have no clue about football.

 

Did you read what you wrote, "Just because they lost 4 starters." Stop right there. CLemson was probably THE biggest dissapointment in college this year and their OLINE was the main reason for it.

 

I'm gald that you watch the Tar Heels play every Saturday. The ACC sucks so you're just used to watching sh*tty football. No bias though...

[Magox]

The long hair thing/ stiff hips comment was a cheap shot at Poz and the fans infatuation with him. So the fact that you took that seriously makes you look very dumb.And Yes, you will see a correlation between the FSU DEnds because Mickey Andrews has been the DC since the mid 80's. And if you don't think systems are part of the reason why college players have trouble with transitioning then again, you have no clue about football.

 

Did you read what you wrote, "Just because they lost 4 starters." Stop right there. CLemson was probably THE biggest dissapointment in college this year and their OLINE was the main reason for it.

 

I'm gald that you watch the Tar Heels play every Saturday. The ACC sucks so you're just used to watching sh*tty football. No bias though...

you've got anger issues. Hope that works out for ya

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

you've got anger issues. Hope that works out for ya

Dude, you accused me of not having credibility. I put both of your accusations to bed and I called the ACC sh*tty football. If I have an anger issue, you have a sensitivity issue.