Estro Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Just wanted to pass on the first Draft Value Chart posted over on profootballweekly.com, which will be updated every Wednesday leading up to draft day. For anyone who isn't familiar with the site, the guy is a respected college talent evaluator who has had some very impressive mock drafts the past few years. Anyways just thought I'd pass on the link, as sometimes it is difficult to navigate their site and find this stuff. http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr...value040709.htm To give you an idea of what his first 2008 draft value chart looked like (keep in mind he edited it several times leading up to the draft, this one was nearly 3 weeks from the draft): http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr...alue040808a.htm And lastly for anyone who hasn't yet seen his impressive mock draft from last year: http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr.../mock042608.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 FWIW if the decision was between Aaron Maybin and Tyson Jackson I would much rather have Jackson. I know he may not be an ideal pass rushing DE (more of a 3-4 DE) but his play against the run more than makes up for it. He's also a guy who could be moved inside on 3rd downs to get after the passer. Aaron Maybin is one guy I don't want the Bills to touch, just a gut feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 FWIW if the decision was between Aaron Maybin and Tyson Jackson I would much rather have Jackson. I know he may not be an ideal pass rushing DE (more of a 3-4 DE) but his play against the run more than makes up for it. He's also a guy who could be moved inside on 3rd downs to get after the passer. Aaron Maybin is one guy I don't want the Bills to touch, just a gut feeling. Jackson will never get past Green Bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Your links don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 Fixed, sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Fixed, sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Just wanted to pass on the first Draft Value Chart posted over on profootballweekly.com, which will be updated every Wednesday leading up to draft day. For anyone who isn't familiar with the site, the guy is a respected college talent evaluator who has had some very impressive mock drafts the past few years. Anyways just thought I'd pass on the link, as sometimes it is difficult to navigate their site and find this stuff. http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr...value040709.htm To give you an idea of what his first 2008 draft value chart looked like (keep in mind he edited it several times leading up to the draft, this one was nearly 3 weeks from the draft): http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr...alue040808a.htm And lastly for anyone who hasn't yet seen his impressive mock draft from last year: http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr.../mock042608.htm I for one appreciate the historical perspective, thank you very much for including his boards from last year. I like where Leodis sits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Estro, Thanks for posting this. Just what the doctor ordered. If the Bills squat at #11, my top DEs are Ayers, Jackson, and then Brown. I just love what I've seen of Ayers and Mayock said tonight on Path to the Draft that he feels Ayers will be the best defensive player to come from this draft. Jackson looks like Reggie White to me. He is a wrecking ball. I believe his sack total was low in large part because he didn't rush from the blind side. Both of these guys are legit defensive ends, not tweeners. Both are rugged, physical players who will consistently beat the man in front of them. Jackson has played his career at LDE. He would replace Kelsay. Ayers could move to LDE or tackle and provide inside pass rush lining up next to Schobel. Brown, Maybin, and Orakpo would compete for snaps with Schobel. I've said often as have others that pass rush is the biggest thing the Bills need from this draft. The knock on Ayers and Jackson is that they are not elite pass rushers. But they are the can't miss guys in the group IMO. Brown, Maybin, and Orakpo (that's the order I have for these three) all have high ceilings but their floors are lower than Ayers and Jackson IMO. In other words I feel they are more likely to bust, although I like Brown. I say take the substance, not the style. Put differently, give me the meat, not the sizzle. Ayers or Jackson. Forget the gaudy sack totals. Gimme the football players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 Estro, Thanks for posting this. Just what the doctor ordered. If the Bills squat at #11, my top DEs are Ayers, Jackson, and then Brown. I just love what I've seen of Ayers and Mayock said tonight on Path to the Draft that he feels Ayers will be the best defensive player to come from this draft. Jackson looks like Reggie White to me. He is a wrecking ball. I believe his sack total was low in large part because he didn't rush from the blind side. Both of these guys are legit defensive ends, not tweeners. Both are rugged, physical players who will consistently beat the man in front of them. Jackson has played his career at LDE. He would replace Kelsay. Ayers could move to LDE or tackle and provide inside pass rush lining up next to Schobel. Brown, Maybin, and Orakpo would compete for snaps with Schobel. I've said often as have others that pass rush is the biggest thing the Bills need from this draft. The knock on Ayers and Jackson is that they are not elite pass rushers. But they are the can't miss guys in the group IMO. Brown, Maybin, and Orakpo (that's the order I have for these three) all have high ceilings but their floors are lower than Ayers and Jackson IMO. In other words I feel they are more likely to bust, although I like Brown. I say take the substance, not the style. Put differently, give me the meat, not the sizzle. Ayers or Jackson. Forget the gaudy sack totals. Gimme the football players. I totally agree with your point here. My belief is that Orakpo will be off the board (Texas players....scare me). I agree with your point on Ayers and Jackson and I'm still not sure who I like better, although I believe Ayers could be a better fit for our defense. A couple of weeks ago I absolutely loved Everette Brown and his quickness off the edge, but I've cooled on him a bit lately. Some of the guys I respect like Mike Mayock don't seem to have as high a view on him as I do and I don't pretend to know more than those guys. Tyson Jackson from a physical standpoint reminds me a lot of Richard Seymour and if the Bills see him as that type of player I think he would be tough to pass up at #11. My gut tells me that Ayers is the type of football player that Tom Modrak will really push for and I don't think he will be around beyond pick 20, so if we want him we shouldn't trade down too far, if at all. My question is this: Do you take BJ Raji over the triumvirate of (Tyson Jackson, Robert Ayers and Everette Brown) if all 4 are on the board? I know many will flame me for even thinking he will be there at #11, but I can envision a scenario now where Raji lasts until our pick, one that I didn't think was possible a few weeks back. And does Raji fit into what we do on defense (I would hope so)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 Notice I didn't bring up Aaron Maybin because I really don't want him. With my luck HE will end up being the best defensive player to come out of this draft, leaving me to look like a fool. For now though, I'm sticking to my gut feeling that he won't pan out in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 If Raji were to fall and Ayers and Jackson were both available to the Bills, then you have a problem...a great problem. There's a lot to be said for putting a stud next to Stroud and making the Bills a very tough team to run against. The nice thing with Ayers and Jackson is that you'd be improving the pass rush and the run defense too (unlike with Brown, Orakpo, and Maybin). I think I'd still go DE even if Raji was there although it's very close. As for Maybin I am wary of him. Just not convinced about the guy. One of the things that scouts value in him is that he's just 21 years old and he's tall enough to play end at nearly 6'4". They feel he has a huge upside. I feel like he is the tweener who can only play 3-4 LB. I also don't think height is that important at end. Maybin can get stronger and he'll have to because word is he gets pushed around a lot. I don't want anyone in our front 7 who gets pushed around a lot. Brown and Orakpo look like DEs to me more so than linebackers. Both of them hold the point and set the edge better than Maybin from scouting reports. Orakpo looks like he doesn't play to his timed speed and strength. He is strong and fast as a college player but I see him getting swallowed up by pro tackles. It also looks like he gets by on athleticism but has developed very few moves. Brown is the most polished pass rusher in the draft. Charles Davis of NFL Network whose opinion I do not respect loves Brown but says he needs to develop counter moves. I couldn 't disagree more. In the limited video of Brown you can clearly see he can dip and rip, spin and counter spin, and re-direct on his rushes. He varies his speed and angles and uses his hands well. He is a very polished pass rusher. As I said before the thing you get from Ayers and Jackson are improved pass rush, very improved run defense, and two guys who can move around and let Schobel remain at RDE as long as he's effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 FWIW if the decision was between Aaron Maybin and Tyson Jackson I would much rather have Jackson. I know he may not be an ideal pass rushing DE (more of a 3-4 DE) but his play against the run more than makes up for it. He's also a guy who could be moved inside on 3rd downs to get after the passer. Aaron Maybin is one guy I don't want the Bills to touch, just a gut feeling. I really hope we stay away from Tyson Jackson, as we would only waste his talent in a 4-3. He could be a great player in the 3-4, but only average in the Tampa 2. His value is no where close to what we should get out of the 11th pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 These charts are such bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 If Raji were to fall and Ayers and Jackson were both available to the Bills, then you have a problem...a great problem. There's a lot to be said for putting a stud next to Stroud and making the Bills a very tough team to run against. The nice thing with Ayers and Jackson is that you'd be improving the pass rush and the run defense too (unlike with Brown, Orakpo, and Maybin). I think I'd still go DE even if Raji was there although it's very close. As for Maybin I am wary of him. Just not convinced about the guy. One of the things that scouts value in him is that he's just 21 years old and he's tall enough to play end at nearly 6'4". They feel he has a huge upside. I feel like he is the tweener who can only play 3-4 LB. I also don't think height is that important at end. Maybin can get stronger and he'll have to because word is he gets pushed around a lot. I don't want anyone in our front 7 who gets pushed around a lot. Brown and Orakpo look like DEs to me more so than linebackers. Both of them hold the point and set the edge better than Maybin from scouting reports. Orakpo looks like he doesn't play to his timed speed and strength. He is strong and fast as a college player but I see him getting swallowed up by pro tackles. It also looks like he gets by on athleticism but has developed very few moves. Brown is the most polished pass rusher in the draft. Charles Davis of NFL Network whose opinion I do not respect loves Brown but says he needs to develop counter moves. I couldn 't disagree more. In the limited video of Brown you can clearly see he can dip and rip, spin and counter spin, and re-direct on his rushes. He varies his speed and angles and uses his hands well. He is a very polished pass rusher. As I said before the thing you get from Ayers and Jackson are improved pass rush, very improved run defense, and two guys who can move around and let Schobel remain at RDE as long as he's effective. Really good post. I agree with you on Orakpo, I don't think he ends up as the best defensive end coming out of the draft when all is said and done, although he will likely be the first selected. He is a bit of a workout warrior IMO. Also was invisible against Ohio St. in their bowl game. Pettigrew also threw him around on multiple occasions when Texas played Ok. State this past year. I'm a little higher on Maybin as an NFL player than most, but his small body of work still scares me, and taking him at #11 would be QUITE a risk. I think he is going to need a little time to development, which I am not really interested in. Give him 2-3 years though, and he could become a Robert Mathis-type pass rusher. I think Everette Brown is going to be a really good defensive end in this league. He will provide a team with this most pass rush sooner than any of the other ends in this draft. He will be able to get by NFL tackles. Ayers is my second favorite, not far behind Brown. Although his sack numbers don't show it, he can really get after the quarterback while recognizing and playing the run equally well if not better. If we stay at our current draft slot and take a defensive end, my hope is that it is one of those two guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Estro, Thanks for posting this. Just what the doctor ordered. If the Bills squat at #11, my top DEs are Ayers, Jackson, and then Brown. I just love what I've seen of Ayers and Mayock said tonight on Path to the Draft that he feels Ayers will be the best defensive player to come from this draft. Jackson looks like Reggie White to me. He is a wrecking ball. I believe his sack total was low in large part because he didn't rush from the blind side. Both of these guys are legit defensive ends, not tweeners. Both are rugged, physical players who will consistently beat the man in front of them. Jackson has played his career at LDE. He would replace Kelsay. Ayers could move to LDE or tackle and provide inside pass rush lining up next to Schobel. Brown, Maybin, and Orakpo would compete for snaps with Schobel. I've said often as have others that pass rush is the biggest thing the Bills need from this draft. The knock on Ayers and Jackson is that they are not elite pass rushers. But they are the can't miss guys in the group IMO. Brown, Maybin, and Orakpo (that's the order I have for these three) all have high ceilings but their floors are lower than Ayers and Jackson IMO. In other words I feel they are more likely to bust, although I like Brown. I say take the substance, not the style. Put differently, give me the meat, not the sizzle. Ayers or Jackson. Forget the gaudy sack totals. Gimme the football players. The problem I have with Ayers is his lack of consistent production in college. I know he showed lots of upside in the second half of the year and Senior Bowl. But you would ideally like to see consistency from a player picked this high. So I wouldn't consider him with our 11 pick. Jackson, well, He looks like he would be a good end opposite of Schobel, but we lack pass rushing, and I do think he will get to the QB more than what other people on this board believe, I still don't see him as the better DE prospect than Brown. Brown in my view is the elite pass rusher in this year's draft, and in my view he would be the one to pick if he is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 If Raji were to fall and Ayers and Jackson were both available to the Bills, then you have a problem...a great problem. There's a lot to be said for putting a stud next to Stroud and making the Bills a very tough team to run against. The nice thing with Ayers and Jackson is that you'd be improving the pass rush and the run defense too (unlike with Brown, Orakpo, and Maybin). I think I'd still go DE even if Raji was there although it's very close. As for Maybin I am wary of him. Just not convinced about the guy. One of the things that scouts value in him is that he's just 21 years old and he's tall enough to play end at nearly 6'4". They feel he has a huge upside. I feel like he is the tweener who can only play 3-4 LB. I also don't think height is that important at end. Maybin can get stronger and he'll have to because word is he gets pushed around a lot. I don't want anyone in our front 7 who gets pushed around a lot. Brown and Orakpo look like DEs to me more so than linebackers. Both of them hold the point and set the edge better than Maybin from scouting reports. Orakpo looks like he doesn't play to his timed speed and strength. He is strong and fast as a college player but I see him getting swallowed up by pro tackles. It also looks like he gets by on athleticism but has developed very few moves. Brown is the most polished pass rusher in the draft. Charles Davis of NFL Network whose opinion I do not respect loves Brown but says he needs to develop counter moves. I couldn 't disagree more. In the limited video of Brown you can clearly see he can dip and rip, spin and counter spin, and re-direct on his rushes. He varies his speed and angles and uses his hands well. He is a very polished pass rusher. As I said before the thing you get from Ayers and Jackson are improved pass rush, very improved run defense, and two guys who can move around and let Schobel remain at RDE as long as he's effective. re: Everette Brown.. I think your assessment is pretty much spot-on. His spin move is really good, and him doing it reminds me of how Freeney uses his spin moves. His jump off the snap is lightning-quick. His shoulder dip on a speed rush on the outside is also very good. That being said, I'd be elated if we managed to snag him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpcolosi Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Just wanted to pass on the first Draft Value Chart posted over on profootballweekly.com, which will be updated every Wednesday leading up to draft day. For anyone who isn't familiar with the site, the guy is a respected college talent evaluator who has had some very impressive mock drafts the past few years. Anyways just thought I'd pass on the link, as sometimes it is difficult to navigate their site and find this stuff. http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr...value040709.htm To give you an idea of what his first 2008 draft value chart looked like (keep in mind he edited it several times leading up to the draft, this one was nearly 3 weeks from the draft): http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr...alue040808a.htm And lastly for anyone who hasn't yet seen his impressive mock draft from last year: http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr.../mock042608.htm terrific post thanks for adding. if he does a Mock for this year I'd very much like to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Jackson will never get past Green Bay. Jackson is likely to be available much later, though GB is certainly a possibility. For me, the reason that we want a DE isn't simply that we need a DE. We don't, in the sense that we have enough NFL-starter-standard DE bodies on the roster. We don't need a DE. We need a pass rush, and the best way to address that need, arguably, is a different kind of DE than we have on the roster. So if we don't find a DE who can greatly upgrade our pass rush - and neither Tyson Jackson nor Ayers does that - then we don't even need another DE - or not early in the draft anyway. Maybin, Brown, Orakpo, these guys are pass rush guys and therefore good possibilities for us if they're available. OP, interesting stuff. Thanks for posting the links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Estro, Thanks for posting this. Just what the doctor ordered. If the Bills squat at #11, my top DEs are Ayers, Jackson, and then Brown. I just love what I've seen of Ayers and Mayock said tonight on Path to the Draft that he feels Ayers will be the best defensive player to come from this draft. Jackson looks like Reggie White to me. He is a wrecking ball. I believe his sack total was low in large part because he didn't rush from the blind side. Both of these guys are legit defensive ends, not tweeners. Both are rugged, physical players who will consistently beat the man in front of them. Jackson has played his career at LDE. He would replace Kelsay. Ayers could move to LDE or tackle and provide inside pass rush lining up next to Schobel. Brown, Maybin, and Orakpo would compete for snaps with Schobel. I've said often as have others that pass rush is the biggest thing the Bills need from this draft. The knock on Ayers and Jackson is that they are not elite pass rushers. But they are the can't miss guys in the group IMO. Brown, Maybin, and Orakpo (that's the order I have for these three) all have high ceilings but their floors are lower than Ayers and Jackson IMO. In other words I feel they are more likely to bust, although I like Brown. I say take the substance, not the style. Put differently, give me the meat, not the sizzle. Ayers or Jackson. Forget the gaudy sack totals. Gimme the football players. Ayers has moved past injuries in the last year and especially late in the year and since the season ended to become a solid later round one draft choice. I think he will surprise people as a player. A bit of a stretch at 11 but he's someone we just might want to stretch for. He's in the Henderson/Haynesworth Tennessee style and could be a force on the defensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 terrific post thanks for adding. if he does a Mock for this year I'd very much like to see it. Nawrocki's Mock Draft Above his mock, it was done on March 30th. Obviously he will update his mocks as the draft gets closer, and as one can see from years past he tends to be very accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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