Thurman#1 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I totally agree with your point here. My belief is that Orakpo will be off the board (Texas players....scare me). I agree with your point on Ayers and Jackson and I'm still not sure who I like better, although I believe Ayers could be a better fit for our defense. A couple of weeks ago I absolutely loved Everette Brown and his quickness off the edge, but I've cooled on him a bit lately. Some of the guys I respect like Mike Mayock don't seem to have as high a view on him as I do and I don't pretend to know more than those guys. Tyson Jackson from a physical standpoint reminds me a lot of Richard Seymour and if the Bills see him as that type of player I think he would be tough to pass up at #11. My gut tells me that Ayers is the type of football player that Tom Modrak will really push for and I don't think he will be around beyond pick 20, so if we want him we shouldn't trade down too far, if at all. My question is this: Do you take BJ Raji over the triumvirate of (Tyson Jackson, Robert Ayers and Everette Brown) if all 4 are on the board? I know many will flame me for even thinking he will be there at #11, but I can envision a scenario now where Raji lasts until our pick, one that I didn't think was possible a few weeks back. And does Raji fit into what we do on defense (I would hope so)? Highly, highly unlikely Raji will be there, as you mentioned, but if he's there we should take him. Only E. Brown should be considered above Raji, and IMHO Raji is better. And yeah, Raji fits our scheme. Our scheme doesn't care much about size, either big or small guys can play it. They have to be quick and explosive to fit the Tampa Two, and very few big guys are explosive. But Raji is very explosive (8 sacks this year) and will therefore fit fine. But he'll be gone, I'm afraid. Very low chance he'll still be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I say take the substance, not the style. Put differently, give me the meat, not the sizzle. Ayers or Jackson. Forget the gaudy sack totals. Gimme the football players. It's only my opinion, but as I said above, if the DEs left to us don't have "sizzle," i.e. sack ability, then DE drops way down our list of needs to about 7th. If the sackers are gone, we'll likely go Cushing, Pettigrew, Mack, Peria Jerry ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Highly, highly unlikely Raji will be there, as you mentioned, but if he's there we should take him. Only E. Brown should be considered above Raji, and IMHO Raji is better. And yeah, Raji fits our scheme. Our scheme doesn't care much about size, either big or small guys can play it. They have to be quick and explosive to fit the Tampa Two, and very few big guys are explosive. But Raji is very explosive (8 sacks this year) and will therefore fit fine. But he'll be gone, I'm afraid. Very low chance he'll still be there. I agree. I would LOVE it if we somehow landed Raji with our first pick, which got me thinking.....Every trade scenario I've scene has us trading down, but would Raji be worth trading up for if it becomes possible? Jacksonville has been rumored to be looking to trade the 8th pick and move down in the draft, and if Raji is still available after the first 7 picks are made, then it should be something to at least consider. Just throwing it out there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Really good post. I agree with you on Orakpo, I don't think he ends up as the best defensive end coming out of the draft when all is said and done, although he will likely be the first selected. He is a bit of a workout warrior IMO. Also was invisible against Ohio St. in their bowl game. Pettigrew also threw him around on multiple occasions when Texas played Ok. State this past year. That's because Pettigrew is freaking great, not because Orakpo is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I agree. I would LOVE it if we somehow landed Raji with our first pick, which got me thinking.....Every trade scenario I've scene has us trading down, but would Raji be worth trading up for if it becomes possible? Jacksonville has been rumored to be looking to trade the 8th pick and move down in the draft, and if Raji is still available after the first 7 picks are made, then it should be something to at least consider. Just throwing it out there.... As a general thought I'm not opposed but the cost of moving from #11 to #8 is 150 points which equates to a mid 3rd round pick. We have enough other needs that it's a tough call. The other phobia I have of course is that our last two trade ups haven't worked out so well so far. McCargo is all but a certain bust and I love Poz but we paid a dear price to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 That's because Pettigrew is freaking great, not because Orakpo is bad. Isn't Orakpo supposed to be "great" too as a top 5-10 pick at defensive end? You would think if that was true it would have been much more evenly matched between the two than it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Nawrocki's Mock Draft Above his mock, it was done on March 30th. Obviously he will update his mocks as the draft gets closer, and as one can see from years past he tends to be very accurate. Interesting, although I don't see the Bills passing on Raji for Maybin. But I really like this Nawrocki quote when discussing the Maybin choice: "Perry Fewell’s defense is predicated on bringing heat off the edges, and the Bills need to add the edge speed defined by Maybin’s game." Spot on. We don't need a DE. We need pressure on the QB, and DEs like Ayers and Tyson Jackson won't produce that, though they should both be good in the right scheme. But ours is not the right scheme for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 re: Everette Brown.. I think your assessment is pretty much spot-on. His spin move is really good, and him doing it reminds me of how Freeney uses his spin moves. His jump off the snap is lightning-quick. His shoulder dip on a speed rush on the outside is also very good. That being said, I'd be elated if we managed to snag him. I think Brown provides what the Bills "need" (maybe not what they want) more than any other defensive lineman in the draft. I'm not sold on Orakpo-so he's not a consideration for me. While Maybin has some measurables that Brown doesn't have, I feel Browns ability to get around the corner, quickness off the snap, diverse pass rush skills and ability to use his hands will make him an impact rusher for years to come. While I wouldn't go so far as to call him Dwight Freeney, I will say that Polian took Freeney earlier than many had thought he would go (Ahh..the Mike Williams draft) despite his lack of measurables. I have heard Brown compared to a cross between Freeney and the retired Saints LB/DE Rickey Jackson, and think that might be the best description. Browns highlights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 Update Nolan Nawrocki and PFW have the newly updated Draft Value Chart for this week. http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr...value041409.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Just wanted to pass on the first Draft Value Chart Good stuff, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bourbonboy Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 It's only my opinion, but as I said above, if the DEs left to us don't have "sizzle," i.e. sack ability, then DE drops way down our list of needs to about 7th. If the sackers are gone, we'll likely go Cushing, Pettigrew, Mack, Peria Jerry ... I totally agree - as good as Ayers may be, he doesn't fit a strong need on our team. If the sackers are gone, then one of the stud OT's will probably slip to us, and I think you gotta give them serious consideration as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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