keepthefaith Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I know he has said publically that he won't sell the team before he dies. I've never bought that completely. Let's look at the money trail....... He's not throwing money at free agents and stayed well below the cap last year. Could be well below tha cap again this year. Re-signed Jauron even when it looked obvious to many outsiders that Jauron is not the answer. 3 Years, likely not big bucks, a deal that could be terminated without great expense. No real GM. Not selling the stadium rights, wide open for the next owner. Managing the team to profitability in Buffalo. Showing a decent bottom line to potential investors shows the team can make money in Buffalo. Has visited with politicians to discuss the Bills. What for? Toronto deal may not be popular, but it helps bottom line and expands market. All of this makes it easier for a new owner to take over. Very little expensive baggage in organization. The Capital gains tax is almost certain to rise. Even if the team were sold on the cheap at $700 million and with a current cap-gains rate of 15%, he'd pay about $100 million in cap gains tax (or less if he has a lot of retained earnings on the books). This rate expires after 2010. If the rate is increased to 25% under Obama in 2011 (which is quite possible), his tax bill could rise by almost $70 million if he waits (or dies later). Wait though, it gets better......The current estate tax rate for 2009 is 45% but is waived in 2010. In 2011 the estate tax rate is 55% on the portion above $3 million. HUGE! If Ralph dies this year or in 2011 and beyond, his estate pays a hefty sum, especially if in 2011 and beyond. If he sells the team or a majority stake in the team while alive, he saves literally hundreds of millions of dollars. He's got a nice window through 2010. After that it gets really expensive if the team is sold or passed on to his family and then sold. We know Ralph loves the Bills and loves money. I really believe some plan has been in the works. What he likely didn't anticipate was the current economic climate which would certainly reduce the value of the team. Even with that, a sale on the cheap while alive will provide his family with a lot more cash. Hundreds of millions more. I really believe this could be the plan. It just adds up. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Short answer: No. Don't overthink. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Short answer: No. Don't overthink. PTR That's the long of it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Ahh, yeah ,most older posters on here know that he has something up his sleeve. By being on the cheap and not signing the biggest free agents or working a trade to bring in the playmakers we so badly need. Without a pass-rush or #2 receiver we are again no threat in the division. He even said himself we needed more playmakers. The draft will not bring us this help this year. Less wins means less fan base. Then he can blame it on them. This leads to a easier sale or move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I believe he is positioning the team to be sold..............................upon his death. That means a MEDIOCRE team until he dies.......................then the Bills will be sold & moved. My advice to all Bills fans, do as we did in the 70's & 80's Go to the games, PARTY, have a GOOD TIME, just don't expect the Bills to WIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 You know threads like these are a bore. So-called Bills fans have accused Ralph of everything under sun since he founded the team. And yet the Bills still play in Buffalo, even though he could have sold them 50 times over. Leave the old guy alone. If not, root for another team already. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 All important points and IMO a logical conclusion. Ultimately, I believe most of the financial dealings stem from Littman. He's steering this ship more than most want to realize and has for many years. Maximizing profits and keeping their operating costs down seems to be the priority. The only barrier RW has from spending less on players is the mandate to spend 86.4% of the 127M salary cap per the CBA. As long as that's spent, there is no mandate to do anything else. Not spending on coaches, a GM, selling the stadium naming rights, nothing. There is a reason to all of this, and any business potentially up for sale wants the least amount of debt to value ratio. The Bills have that, and benefit from the NFL's TV contract. It makes them even more attractive for an outside buyer to take them elsewhere. Not much is holding them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax bill backer Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I know he has said publically that he won't sell the team before he dies. I've never bought that completely. Let's look at the money trail....... He's not throwing money at free agents and stayed well below the cap last year. Could be well below tha cap again this year. Re-signed Jauron even when it looked obvious to many outsiders that Jauron is not the answer. 3 Years, likely not big bucks, a deal that could be terminated without great expense. No real GM. Not selling the stadium rights, wide open for the next owner. Managing the team to profitability in Buffalo. Showing a decent bottom line to potential investors shows the team can make money in Buffalo. Has visited with politicians to discuss the Bills. What for? Toronto deal may not be popular, but it helps bottom line and expands market. All of this makes it easier for a new owner to take over. Very little expensive baggage in organization. The Capital gains tax is almost certain to rise. Even if the team were sold on the cheap at $700 million and with a current cap-gains rate of 15%, he'd pay about $100 million in cap gains tax (or less if he has a lot of retained earnings on the books). This rate expires after 2010. If the rate is increased to 25% under Obama in 2011 (which is quite possible), his tax bill could rise by almost $70 million if he waits (or dies later). Wait though, it gets better......The current estate tax rate for 2009 is 45% but is waived in 2010. In 2011 the estate tax rate is 55% on the portion above $3 million. HUGE! If Ralph dies this year or in 2011 and beyond, his estate pays a hefty sum, especially if in 2011 and beyond. If he sells the team or a majority stake in the team while alive, he saves literally hundreds of millions of dollars. He's got a nice window through 2010. After that it gets really expensive if the team is sold or passed on to his family and then sold. We know Ralph loves the Bills and loves money. I really believe some plan has been in the works. What he likely didn't anticipate was the current economic climate which would certainly reduce the value of the team. Even with that, a sale on the cheap while alive will provide his family with a lot more cash. Hundreds of millions more. I really believe this could be the plan. It just adds up. Thoughts? Ive been trying to say this the whole time..... Give up guys. quit worrying about free agency and the draft. the bills will be moved in the comming years... you all just have to accept it and for you people who dont believe it are stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Ive been trying to say this the whole time..... Give up guys. quit worrying about free agency and the draft. the bills will be moved in the comming years... you all just have to accept it and for you people who dont believe it are stupid Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 You know threads like these are a bore. So-called Bills fans have accused Ralph of everything under sun since he founded the team. And yet the Bills still play in Buffalo, even though he could have sold them 50 times over. Leave the old guy alone. If not, root for another team already. PTR I'm not accusing him of anything really, and I'm not suggesting at all that the Bills are leaving if sold. He'd be smart to sell before 2011 if he wants to maximize his investment and he appears to be positioning himself well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hypothetically, if you want to sell an asset, you would like to sell it at the highest value possible. A losing franchise is not going to fetch as much as a winner. If there was a legit buyer in Buffalo, moves already would have been made. If the buyer wants to move the team, the current roster is irrelevant. Bills suck, just simply because their owner has been consistent in his dealings with the team over the past 50 years. It didn't just change in the last 4 months because the owner wants to sell the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax bill backer Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Ralph Wilson is a piece of sh--... instead of just keeping it under his breath.. why dosent he just openley state that the bills are moving... than we can stop posting about who we might get in freeagency or draft or predicting what are record is gonna be this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Ralph Wilson is a piece of sh--... instead of just keeping it under his breath.. why dosent he just openley state that the bills are moving... than we can stop posting about who we might get in freeagency or draft or predicting what are record is gonna be this season Because he doesn't know what will happen after he passes. It's not his problem. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hypothetically, if you want to sell an asset, you would like to sell it at the highest value possible. A losing franchise is not going to fetch as much as a winner. If there was a legit buyer in Buffalo, moves already would have been made. If the buyer wants to move the team, the current roster is irrelevant. Bills suck, just simply because their owner has been consistent in his dealings with the team over the past 50 years. It didn't just change in the last 4 months because the owner wants to sell the team. The Bills would have no more value if they won than if they go 0-16. The Buffalo market is what it is & it WILL SUPPORT a LOSING team. Unless Ralph has a SECRET plan in place (makes no sense) to ensure the Bills remain in Buffalo after he dies, they will be sold to the highest bidder who will most likely move the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax bill backer Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 So is there any possible way we could keep them in Buffalo.. or are we doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunderbill Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 i'd bet my house they are moving within the next decade. the nfl loves the revenue from big market teams and toronto and L.A are like circling sharks. IMO it's not a matter of if but when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 The Bills would have no more value if they won than if they go 0-16. The Buffalo market is what it is & it WILL SUPPORT a LOSING team. Unless Ralph has a SECRET plan in place (makes no sense) to ensure the Bills remain in Buffalo after he dies, they will be sold to the highest bidder who will most likely move the team. Technically no. If the Bills were a winning team, that means that it has a good roster, but more importantly a very good front office, which the buyer would also get. That would fetch a higher premium than a bottom feeder franchise. The line that Wilson isn't spending the money because he wants to sell the team is crap. But if you're saying that he doesn't want to spend the money because he's apathetic about the team and he has no urge to throw money away in his last couple of years, then you're onto something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I know he has said publically that he won't sell the team before he dies. I've never bought that completely.Thoughts? You have no faith left and are stirring the pot because you want others to join you with mindless, factless drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Technically no. If the Bills were a winning team, that means that it has a good roster, but more importantly a very good front office, which the buyer would also get. That would fetch a higher premium than a bottom feeder franchise. The line that Wilson isn't spending the money because he wants to sell the team is crap. But if you're saying that he doesn't want to spend the money because he's apathetic about the team and he has no urge to throw money away in his last couple of years, then you're onto something. There would have to be A LOT OF MONEY SPENT to have a QUALITY Front Office & PLAYMAKERS on the roster. That doesn't come CHEAP. SO what has more VALUE...........A Team with an EXPENSIVE, QUALITY front office & good roster OR a CHEAP team that the new owner can MOLD to his own liking? & Don't forget NOBODY knows when Ralph will die. Every year he lives, the LESS MONEY spent on the team the more MONEY in Ralphs estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax bill backer Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 There would have to be A LOT OF MONEY SPENT to have a QUALITY Front Office & PLAYMAKERS on the roster. That doesn't come CHEAP. SO what has more VALUE...........A Team with an EXPENSIVE, QUALITY front office & good roster OR a CHEAP team that the new owner can MOLD to his own liking? People have to understand if the Bills move to toronto or L.A this is not the same as starting an expansion franchise... For example this is not the Houston Texans years ago in there first year.. That being said I think a good front office and good players would be more attractive in this sense.. like the browns moving to baltimore and winning a championship.. someone will try to want to copy that same model that the ravens did.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts