SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I might be crazy but the kid has only played two seasons. He makes mistakes sure but he makes up for alot of them with spectacular plays as well. Is it possible he could improve his passing? Vince Young never had to play in a traditional Qb role in college and I think he has adapted about as well as could be expected. IMO he was more about potential than he was polish coming out of college. I completely agree with you that he needs to be a passer first to have success in the NFL but that doesn't happen over night. Meanwhile prior to his injury he won games for his team with his athletic ability. You might be right that VY drops a couple more games than Collins this year. On the otherhand maybe the Titans aren't one and done in the playoffs and VY makes something happen where Collins couldn't. He's certainly capable of improving, but the fact that his rookie campaign was actually better than his second season isn't a positive sign, on top of the fact that he had to spend this past season rehabbing from an injury. You never know how missing a season will affect a player. When you add to the equation his emotional issues, and the fact that he isn't the brightest light on the Xmas tree (6 on the wonderlic on his first try), significant improvement seems doubtful. Though I'd like to see him prove me wrong, he seems like a nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 He played one year after his rookie season and was injured alot of it! What are you talking about? He wasn't injured during much of his second season was he? He started 15 games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'd say that he has to be right up there at this point. The guy was a #3 overall pick with expectations that exceed the place that he was selected at. He had a couple of decent/sub par seasons running around on the field, but has never had any resemblance of an NFL QB IMO. Then he falls apart because he gets booed by fans that were upset with his play on the field? Now he can't even get back in there ahead of Kerry Collins. I'd say he's right in there with the Ryan Leaf's, Robert Gallery's, Mike Williams', and Charles Rogers' of this world. It won't be long before the guy is sitting on the coach at home, dipping his Tostitos, and screaming at the TV EVERY Sunday just like the rest of us. Sad, but true none the less. They won a lot of games with him in there...waaaaaaaay early to tell. He kicked the Bills arse 2 yrs ago---but then again who didnt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 and by leading his team to the playoffs, you mean riding on the back of a great defense? THe only reason the titans were even in 90% of their games was because the defense didn't allow the other team to capitalize on VY's gigantic amount of turnovers. You are inaccurate and I question how many Titans games you have actually watched. I don't even like VY! I can't believe I'm even defending his play. Bottom line is he's not great but he's not terrible either. Clowns like you are incapable of putting together a reasonable conclusion, so you just spew the same garbage over and over again. The guy is not a bust yet and it's idiotic to try and prove he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 He wasn't injured during much of his second season was he? He started 15 games... He played while injured alot of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 He played while injured alot of the season. Ok, I'll take your word for it. By the way, I'm not trying to be a d*ck in this thread, if that's what I'm coming off as. I just like to debate. And I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. See, I'm sort of a statistics freak and I think that numbers can be used to prove just about anything in sports (not that the boxscore ever tells the WHOLE story), and when I look at VY's stats, I just don't see a good quarterback. But again, I hope to be proven wrong because he's certainly got the physicality for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 He's certainly capable of improving, but the fact that his rookie campaign was actually better than his second season isn't a positive sign, on top of the fact that he had to spend this past season rehabbing from an injury. You never know how missing a season will affect a player. When you add to the equation his emotional issues, and the fact that he isn't the brightest light on the Xmas tree (6 on the wonderlic on his first try), significant improvement seems doubtful. Though I'd like to see him prove me wrong, he seems like a nice guy. I guess the only difference in opinion is that I see more potential there than you. I'm not pretending to be a Qb guru or anything, so for all I know the kid could end up being a bust. He's shown me enough to believe he can improve. To me you give players with great potential and a winning pedigree the benefit of more than two seasons. He has also been a strong leader in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Ok, I'll take your word for it. By the way, I'm not trying to be a d*ck in this thread, if that's what I'm coming off as. I just like to debate. And I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. See, I'm sort of a statistics freak and I think that numbers can be used to prove just about anything in sports (not that the boxscore ever tells the WHOLE story), and when I look at VY's stats, I just don't see a good quarterback. But again, I hope to be proven wrong because he's certainly got the physicality for it. No big deal. I like to debate too. It's tough to argue stats! FWIW I never really liked VY and I always root against Texas. He seems like a good kid though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I might be crazy but the kid has only played two seasons. He makes mistakes sure but he makes up for alot of them with spectacular plays as well. Is it possible he could improve his passing? Vince Young never had to play in a traditional Qb role in college and I think he has adapted about as well as could be expected. IMO he was more about potential than he was polish coming out of college. I completely agree with you that he needs to be a passer first to have success in the NFL but that doesn't happen over night. Meanwhile prior to his injury he won games for his team with his athletic ability. You might be right that VY drops a couple more games than Collins this year. On the otherhand maybe the Titans aren't one and done in the playoffs and VY makes something happen where Collins couldn't. If Vince learns to become a passer who makes plays with his feet instead of a runner who sometimes completes a pass to his own team (ala vick), then he can be a good QB. I dont see it happening for the following reasons: 1. I dont think the titans coaching staff is committed to making him more of a passer 2. I dont think young can break out of his run first mentality 3. I question his desire to play football. He'll never be a good QB if he doesn't sort out his mental issues 4. I see major problems in his game with too many INTs and not enough TDs. This isn't like Peyton who tossed 26 TDs to go with 28 INTs. This is a guy who tossed only 1 TD every other game. IF Young gets his head in the game, and IF he develops his passing, he can be a good QB. I dont see it happening. I think he'll be a highlight reel, but mediocre QB who will leads the titans to wins, but will never be able to get them over the hump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 If Vince learns to become a passer who makes plays with his feet instead of a runner who sometimes completes a pass to his own team (ala vick), then he can be a good QB. I dont see it happening for the following reasons: 1. I dont think the titans coaching staff is committed to making him more of a passer 2. I dont think young can break out of his run first mentality 3. I question his desire to play football. He'll never be a good QB if he doesn't sort out his mental issues 4. I see major problems in his game with too many INTs and not enough TDs. This isn't like Peyton who tossed 26 TDs to go with 28 INTs. This is a guy who tossed only 1 TD every other game. IF Young gets his head in the game, and IF he develops his passing, he can be a good QB. I dont see it happening. I think he'll be a highlight reel, but mediocre QB who will leads the titans to wins, but will never be able to get them over the hump. Fair enough. I can see your reasons for doubt. It's really just a difference in opinion on the chances of success. I do think the Titans coaching staff will make him more of a passer, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You are inaccurate and I question how many Titans games you have actually watched. I don't even like VY! I can't believe I'm even defending his play. Bottom line is he's not great but he's not terrible either. Clowns like you are incapable of putting together a reasonable conclusion, so you just spew the same garbage over and over again. The guy is not a bust yet and it's idiotic to try and prove he is. Please, i've seen vince play plenty of times. All he can do is run and turn the ball over. The fact is that the titans offense under VY was comparable to the Bills O under Losman. I'm sorry that you can't get over the fact that VY is an emotionally unstable QB with the mental capacity of someone who has been lobotomized. I would gladly say that he is not a bust if he showed any semblance of being able to read a defense ( or even be accurate). If you can't see the fact that Vince was bailed out by timely special teams and defense, then why do you even bother watching football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Also, Fisher has stated that Collins will be the starting QB next year, if he re-signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Also, Fisher has stated that Collins will be the starting QB next year, if he re-signs. Heard that as well. All signs are pointing towards Vince being shown the door in Tennessee. Look, I started this thread because of how far he's fallen in such a short frame of time. Sure Leaf was never ROY and never made the Pro Bowl, but he couldn't take the NFL mentally. Vince is showing the same characteristics mentally, minus a tirade directed at a reporter. To fall apart over getting booed shows that there are some serious issues going on. True we don't know if he was suicidal, but we do know that the problems cost him pretty much a full season. It's also led to the point that the head coach is saying that he wants his replacement back as the starter for the coming season. Like I said, the writing is on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Please, i've seen vince play plenty of times. All he can do is run and turn the ball over. The fact is that the titans offense under VY was comparable to the Bills O under Losman. I'm sorry that you can't get over the fact that VY is an emotionally unstable QB with the mental capacity of someone who has been lobotomized. I would gladly say that he is not a bust if he showed any semblance of being able to read a defense ( or even be accurate). If you can't see the fact that Vince was bailed out by timely special teams and defense, then why do you even bother watching football? Agree to disagree. I guess who really cares, we got are own problems to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Vince Young is not a pocket passer, he never was, and will never be. He is not a pocket passer in the same sense that Robert Royal is not a pass catcher and Chris Kelsay is not a pass rusher. What do you get when you ask Royal to catch passes and Kelsay to rush the QB? You get really bad results. When Vince Young is asked to sit in the pocket and read defenses, what do you get? Vince young is best in the spread, or some version similiar. The problem is not Vince Young, its the coaches that try to fit a square peg in a round hole. The Titans could have drafted the round peg to fit said hole with Lienart, but they didnt. The Oilers used Warren Moon in the "Run n Shoot" offense, which Young would excell in, but nowadays the NFL is so dead set on running one type of O they refuse to develope schemes to what talent they have. Apparently the only Offense allowed in the NFL is the "NFL OFfense" and only good pocket passers can play QB, even if there are not enough pocket passers to go around. PS: Young is depressed because he is playing poorly, who wouldnt be? I mean he has probably realised that there is no place in the NFL for him, even though he is a great football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Vince Young is not a pocket passer, he never was, and will never be. He is not a pocket passer in the same sense that Robert Royal is not a pass catcher and Chris Kelsay is not a pass rusher. What do you get when you ask Royal to catch passes and Kelsay to rush the QB? You get really bad results. When Vince Young is asked to sit in the pocket and read defenses, what do you get? Vince young is best in the spread, or some version similiar. The problem is not Vince Young, its the coaches that try to fit a square peg in a round hole. The Titans could have drafted the round peg to fit said hole with Lienart, but they didnt. The Oilers used Warren Moon in the "Run n Shoot" offense, which Young would excell in, but nowadays the NFL is so dead set on running one type of O they refuse to develope schemes to what talent they have. Apparently the only Offense allowed in the NFL is the "NFL OFfense" and only good pocket passers can play QB, even if there are not enough pocket passers to go around. PS: Young is depressed because he is playing poorly, who wouldnt be? I mean he has probably realised that there is no place in the NFL for him, even though he is a great football player. Good post. I don't agree with all of it, but I agree with far too much. Given all that, what is your prognosis for Tim Tebow, when he gets to the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Big Man Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I liked Young at Texas. But the staff had to cater to his abilities and thats what made him great. I am dissapointed in his NFL performance. I knew it would be that way for him and Reggie Bush also. Not looking anywhere as good as they were in college. My vote in the Top 10 of QB busts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 Vince Young is not a pocket passer, he never was, and will never be. He is not a pocket passer in the same sense that Robert Royal is not a pass catcher and Chris Kelsay is not a pass rusher. What do you get when you ask Royal to catch passes and Kelsay to rush the QB? You get really bad results. When Vince Young is asked to sit in the pocket and read defenses, what do you get? Vince young is best in the spread, or some version similiar. The problem is not Vince Young, its the coaches that try to fit a square peg in a round hole. The Titans could have drafted the round peg to fit said hole with Lienart, but they didnt. The Oilers used Warren Moon in the "Run n Shoot" offense, which Young would excell in, but nowadays the NFL is so dead set on running one type of O they refuse to develope schemes to what talent they have. Apparently the only Offense allowed in the NFL is the "NFL OFfense" and only good pocket passers can play QB, even if there are not enough pocket passers to go around. PS: Young is depressed because he is playing poorly, who wouldnt be? I mean he has probably realised that there is no place in the NFL for him, even though he is a great football player. Decent post, but you can't be serious about the bold and underlined part? Warren Moon was one of THE BEST passers in the history of the game of football. Vince would not be better in a "Run and Shoot" style of offense at all. The only thing he's good for is taking off down the field when he sees an opening. He's then fast enough and agile enough to get away from defenders. The only one I can even think of comparing him to is an overpaid, less stable version of Kordell Stewart. Truth be told, right now it looks like Kordell is the better of the two and that ain't saying much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Good post. I don't agree with all of it, but I agree with far too much. Given all that, what is your prognosis for Tim Tebow, when he gets to the NFL? Tim Tebow: Future backup tight end. Though I do respect his decision to stay in school one more year to improve himself. He probably heard that scouts were none too impressed with his pass abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'd take VY in a heartbeat. Let him and Edwards battle it out to see who should be the starter. me too. That's if I didn't' get him and immediately name him the opening day starter for 2009! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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