MRW Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 What is this, a lifetime excuse? Can you even begin to see how nonsensical this is? Points for excuse originality though I must say. Give it up. He sucks because he sucks, he always did suck, and always will suck as an NFL QB. Is it so out of bounds for people to cheer for JP? I hope he does well after he moves on. I have my doubts given that the weaknesses he showed when he came on the field this year were, if anything, magnified from earlier in his career. But if he's smart he'll go somewhere with a good QB coach, even if it's as a third-stringer, and try to overcome them. I don't know that he can but is it even unacceptable now to hope that he does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Is it so out of bounds for people to cheer for JP? I hope he does well after he moves on. I have my doubts given that the weaknesses he showed when he came on the field this year were, if anything, magnified from earlier in his career. But if he's smart he'll go somewhere with a good QB coach, even if it's as a third-stringer, and try to overcome them. I don't know that he can but is it even unacceptable now to hope that he does? JP will do fine. It's no coincidence that the longer he played under Jauron, the worse he looked. Trent is heading down the same path. Both can be saved with new coaching. Trent will just have to wait it out longer. JP is free and probably in a better place emotionally than most of the current Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Is it so out of bounds for people to cheer for JP? No. Not even a little. The only thing that ever irks me is that his excuse making worshippers are the very same people who blast Edwards at every opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 No. Not even a little. The only thing that ever irks me is that his excuse making worshippers are the very same people who blast Edwards at every opportunity. ...and let you make the excuses for him. In truth, I don't think many posters here "make excuses" for JP. They simply note the issues he has had to encounter. I also don't think many posters blast Edwards. But, when someone notes a problem with Trent's performance, there you are to "note the issues" that impact performance. But, for some reason, when you do it, you don't call it an "excuse". Funny, isn't it? Two of the reasons (legitimate, I think) that Trent has had problems are: 1. He is a young QB...still only in his second season 2. He has had to play for a poorly coached team Yet, if I remember correctly, when JP was in his second (and third) seasons, and posters pointed to those two factors, you bashed him, and called them "excuses". Am I mistaken there, Bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Am I mistaken there, Bill? In my opinion yes, you are clearly wrong. Glove wearing Mary. China Doll. Mr. Checkdown. Noodle Arm. Did I just make these names up? Some fanboys were so distraught that there darling lost his job (yet again), they even insulted the looks of Trent's sister in quite the long thread. Are you sensing some issues? Insults notwithstanding, the kid is a drastic improvement over what we had. Yeah, I know.....quarterbacks don't win games. I've heard that cliche time and again. Even if I accepted it as etched in stone, gospel truth (which by the way I do not), JP lost them. He lost game after game yet still has what I deem an extrordinary number of worshippers. If there is something they like about his personality or whatever else, I can understand that. But to insult Trent and compare JP favorably to him isn't talking football imo. It is doing something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 In my opinion yes, you are clearly wrong. Glove wearing Mary. China Doll. Mr. Checkdown. Noodle Arm. Did I just make these names up? Some fanboys were so distraught that there darling lost his job (yet again), they even insulted the looks of Trent's sister in quite the long thread. Are you sensing some issues? Insults notwithstanding, the kid is a drastic improvement over what we had. Yeah, I know.....quarterbacks don't win games. I've heard that cliche time and again. Even if I accepted it as etched in stone, gospel truth (which by the way I do not), JP lost them. He lost game after game yet still has what I deem an extrordinary number of worshippers. If there is something they like about his personality or whatever else, I can understand that. But to insult Trent and compare JP favorably to him isn't talking football imo. It is doing something else. Yes, there are a very few posters who call Trent stupid names (and far more that do the same for JP). In my mind, all the name-calling is sensless. I meant: Weren't you calling JP names, and calling any reason that he might have played poorly, "an excuse" very early on? Aren't you now citing some of those same reasons for Trent's play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 In my opinion yes, you are clearly wrong. Glove wearing Mary. China Doll. Mr. Checkdown. Noodle Arm. Did I just make these names up? Some fanboys were so distraught that there darling lost his job (yet again), they even insulted the looks of Trent's sister in quite the long thread. Are you sensing some issues? The problem, Bill, is that you respond to every criticism of Edwards as if the people posting it are the ones who are issuing those insults. And you also bring Losman's name into every single discussion of Edwards. There are different people posting different things, and if you want to lambaste crayonz every time he insults Trent, go ahead. But my concern about his play starts and ends with whether he can be the franchise QB Buffalo needs. Based on his play down the stretch this season, I have my doubts. That doesn't mean I want to see Losman starting (although I hope he turns his career around), it just means I'm not sold on Edwards like you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 The problem, Bill, is that you respond to every criticism of Edwards as if the people posting it are the ones who are issuing those insults. And you also bring Losman's name into every single discussion of Edwards. There are different people posting different things, and if you want to lambaste crayonz every time he insults Trent, go ahead. But my concern about his play starts and ends with whether he can be the franchise QB Buffalo needs. Based on his play down the stretch this season, I have my doubts. That doesn't mean I want to see Losman starting (although I hope he turns his career around), it just means I'm not sold on Edwards like you are. Exactly. And, why would anyone take a crayonz post (particularly a football post) seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 In my opinion yes, you are clearly wrong. Glove wearing Mary. China Doll. Mr. Checkdown. Noodle Arm. Did I just make these names up? Some fanboys were so distraught that there darling lost his job (yet again), they even insulted the looks of Trent's sister in quite the long thread. Are you sensing some issues? Insults notwithstanding, the kid is a drastic improvement over what we had. Yeah, I know.....quarterbacks don't win games. I've heard that cliche time and again. Even if I accepted it as etched in stone, gospel truth (which by the way I do not), JP lost them. He lost game after game yet still has what I deem an extrordinary number of worshippers. If there is something they like about his personality or whatever else, I can understand that. But to insult Trent and compare JP favorably to him isn't talking football imo. It is doing something else. Excuse me, sir, but that's Captain Checkdown. Trent didn't spend 6 years in the checkdown military to be called mister, thank you very much. And this is just my personal point of view, but as a guy who likes and defended (note tenses) JP, and thought he was better than Trent in 2007, I think your argument is a strawman. Bottom line: JP sucks. Trent also sucks, just not as much, and he's also younger, so there's hope that he'll eventually not suck. Hopefully sooner rather than later. I was sold on Trent from the St. Louis game to the San Diego game, but the remaining 10 unsold me on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 You just agreed with me, I think. Yes, I think I did too. I don't know where my head was.....ahem. Actually, I think I do but I'm not going to go there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 No. Not even a little. The only thing that ever irks me is that his excuse making worshippers are the very same people who blast Edwards at every opportunity. :w00t: hey pot...meet kettle... :w00t: you are the biggest, most blatant, trent-worshipping losman basher on the board!!!!! trent's a girl - she'll never be an nfl qb miss edwards shoulders a burden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yes, it is possible to simply not be sold on Trent Edwards as a savior and buy into the hype that he single-handedly wins football games. To have that opinion does not require any sort of comparison as the evaluation can be done simply on Edwards own body of work. But, it leaves me wondering if the Edwards fans (or insert derogatory homosexual stereotypical reference) will take to ripping on Gibran Hamdan (or whoever the backup is) next year whenever and wherever Edwards struggles. Or whether they'll pull out injuries, bad coaching, bad scheme, lack of weapons, bad blocking, 3rd year "rookie", etc. and not even at how two-faced it is to use the exact same arguments that they called "excuses" for the last player, and the player before him, and the player before ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Big Man Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Fasten your safetybelts cause its going to be a long 3 years mirroring the last 3 years no matter what free agents or top draft pick we bring in. Free agents will fall into the mediocre line and new picks will be miscoached... see Whitner and Simpson and Poz and any other under achieving and under coached youth this franchise has in its stable. Jauron is to blame , because no matter what phase is lacking it is up to him to FIX IT. Don't forget it was Dicky J who called the JP roll out on 3rd and 5 with 120 seconds to go to victory...then BAM, its a fumble and the Bills lose to the Fins in T.O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Insults notwithstanding, the kid is a drastic improvement over what we had. Yeah, I know.....quarterbacks don't win games. Huh? What exactly has Trent done that constitutes the statement "Drastic improvement"? During the second half of the season you can argue he played as bad as JP ever played...Even when we were winning he wasnt lighting the field on fire, and that was against some of the worst pass defenses in the league. Second...anyone who says QB doesnt win games is just crazy. You can not win in the NFL without at the very least solid QB play. The only exception to the rule is if you have an ELITE defense that can keep the score low. However, for that to be true, you still need a QB competent enough to not turn the ball over and a running game to keep the chains moving. The play of our QB position is the #1 reason we have not had a winning season. I don't care if Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh or Bill Parcels were our coach, if the QB plays the way it has played we will not be a super bowl winning franchise based on the level of talent in the other areas of our team. You put the Baltimore Defense on our squad, sure, we are a scary team with our current offense...but last I checked they were still all out in Baltimore and because of that we need production from our offense which starts and stops with our QB's ability to EXECUTE our offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 If your a defensive player on the field against the Buffalo Bills and they run a shotgun formation,what are you thinking? If you think pass, you would be correct about 95% of the time as the Bills rarely handed off in the shotgun and I don't recall ever seeing them direct snap it to the RB.When the opposing defense knows exactly what your going to do it makes it much easier to defend. It's basically why Lynch did so well against the 49ers, they didn't even try to stack the box,they just dropped into pass coverage and took away the passing game. Did the Bills coaches respond by running the ball more,hell no.They didn't give the ball to Lynch but one single time in the 4th quarter in that niner game. Instead the Bills OC forced the back up QB to throw the ball into a defense stacked to stop the pass. You can blame the QB's all you want but its the Bills coaching that's lacking the talent. I'd bet that if you swapped offenses with the Patriots even up the Bills running backs would each have over 1000 yards rushing because Belichick would see he doesn't have Wes Welker and Randy Moss and some decent tight ends so he would utilize what he does have and he would pound the rock all day setting up the pass. I'll even bet that he could make JP Losman look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 If your a defensive player on the field against the Buffalo Bills and they run a shotgun formation,what are you thinking? If you think pass, you would be correct about 95% of the time as the Bills rarely handed off in the shotgun and I don't recall ever seeing them direct snap it to the RB.When the opposing defense knows exactly what your going to do it makes it much easier to defend. Um, most teams don't run out of the shotgun and pass more than 90% of the time...why you ask, because it's not a very effective running formation and usually teams are in shotgun in long situations. Even rarer is the direct snap to the RB in Shotgun...so how are we any different? One can argue that Bills actually went WAY TOO often with the unexpected to have it back fire. So many times on this board people were screaming "why didn't they just keep it simple" because we went with some abnormal play to pick up a key first down just to see it back fire. One of the biggest flaws of our play calling was the constant "over creativity" where they tried way too often to out smart the opposing team and got too cute when we should have just hammered the ball. We don't have the personnel, especially at QB and O Line to pull on these "creative" plays off and we paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Um, most teams don't run out of the shotgun and pass more than 90% of the time...why you ask, because it's not a very effective running formation and usually teams are in shotgun in long situations. Even rarer is the direct snap to the RB in Shotgun...so how are we any different? One can argue that Bills actually went WAY TOO often with the unexpected to have it back fire. So many times on this board people were screaming "why didn't they just keep it simple" because we went with some abnormal play to pick up a key first down just to see it back fire. One of the biggest flaws of our play calling was the constant "over creativity" where they tried way too often to out smart the opposing team and got too cute when we should have just hammered the ball. We don't have the personnel, especially at QB and O Line to pull on these "creative" plays off and we paid for it. What I was saying is that the Bills forced the QB to throw the ball against defenses that KNEW they were going to pass, thus making it easier for the defense to defend the pass and step up the pass rush on the QB. If the Bills were to use play action passing more often it would have kept opposing defenses guessing as to what play the Bills were about use and make it more difficult to defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 The play of our QB position is the #1 reason we have not had a winning season. I am sorry, but this is nonsense. I really do mean it. I am sorry to appear smug, but the above is utterly ridiculous. The quarterback position is one of the only areas at which we have improved in thr Dick Levy Era. Another is of course the secondary, but it doesn't matter because our backs are 30 yards from the receivers on a 3rd and 29. Defensive backs are all but useless on a team with a small, gimpy front 7. We are better at RB too, but there is still no center, and Dockery, imo, is a bag of schitt for 7 million dollars. So, how effective was the ground game when it counted? You can certainly blast Trent and pine away for Losman. We are all entitled to our own grieving processes, but the fact is that JP has no job because he sucked for 5 years. He had no trade value because nobody else seemed to want him. Coincidence, or was it because he is a lousy quarterback? Plenty of teams would take Trent Edwards. You think that Vikings might want him? Trent has value because he is a promising young quarterback. To blame the woes of this team on Trent is feeble and shortsighted. He is going into his 3rd year. How many years did you give Losman? Have you given up on him yet? If not, please tell us why. In closing, please be advised that I was screaming my a$$ off for years to get JP some help. He needed blockers in the worst way, but Dick Levy wanted Whitner instead of Mangold AND a second round pick. At least one prominent poster in this thread defended this pick up and down. Was I the one who wanted McKelvin? Again, the kid is very good, but it makes no difference. A first round DB was the last thing that we needed. This team was built by an incompetent 80 year old and a complete loser that nobody else wanted. JP was screwed around. I don't deny this but unlike you, I will not offer him a lifetime of excuses and blast a good kid for taking his place. 5 years was more than enough for JP to prove that he is a bad quarterback. Screwed around or not, he is a chronic, serial loser, and far inferior to Trent Edwards no matter what your heart tells you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 You can certainly blast Trent and pine away for Losman. Please Bill, please, show me where the poster you quoted was pining away for Losman. You're not even pretending to respond to what people actually write any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Please Bill, please, show me where the poster you quoted was pining away for Losman. You're not even pretending to respond to what people actually write any more. >>>>>Two, the staff has not mismanaged Trent like they did with JP. TE regressed on his own during games because he lost his confidence and his field vision. He didnt respond well to adversity, and while some of that is on the coaching staff, the majority of that is on the make up of Trent and his fragile psyche and body. Now, JP I think can benefit in a new system. One, our system we have now doesnt fit his style of play. Two, he has no trust in the staff or FO after how he was mishandled so much and he just needs a fresh start somewhere to try and resurrect his career, if he even can.<<<<< This, and the fact that at least half of his posts are slamming Edwards. Find me a few where he blames our team's losses on Losman. He is all over Trent, and has given Losman an excuse filled, lifetime pass to suck. Why not find his posts yourself and be objective if you can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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