Lost in the coaching debacle ... is Trent Edwards the real deal?

[BuffaloBill]

This is not a "let's slam Trent edwards thread." Rather it is a legitimate set of questions that seeking a collective response.

 

Is Trent Edwards a QB that can carry this team?

Is the system one that he can be successful in?

Does he have a surrounding cast that will allow him to be successful?

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

Trent is not good enough to carry an NFL team on his back (Think Peyton Manning). I believe at best Trent can evolve into a Chad Pennington type player. He is capable of playing smart mistake free foootball but he cannot will a victory and he can not carry a team. He must be supported by a strong run game and the coaches need to play him in a system that favors his ability to quickly read the defense and play mid to short passing routes. He is capable of not losing a game but he is not a "I will win the game" QB.

 

The results suggest the Bills system is a joke. After teams took away the dump off routes the offense folded. The lack of play action passes ws glaring. The predictability in play calling returned. Overall the system fails to impress anyone that plays against it, watches it or cares in any way

 

The o-line needs upgrades at center, RT and LG. Among this list an upgrade at center is key. The TE situation is a joke. Schouman and Fine are good reserve players. They are not NFL starters. I know this opinion will not be popular but sorry Lee Evans is not a #1 receiver. He is a superb #2 and Reed belongs in the slot. Please never put Roscoe Parrish back on the field as an NFL wide receiver again. Look at his stats and try to tell me otherwise (please no more .. he could be Wes Welker .. he is not and never will be). Back to Lee Evans. He is a very, very good receiver but he can not make a defense have to play to his abilities. Eric Moulds in his prime was a far better receiver. Lee has speed that can't be ignored but he does not have game presence. He would be a killer opposite a true #1. Good news is that the two heaed monster of Lynch and Jackson is as solid as they come.

 

My thoughts ... what are yours?

[Omar Little]

Great points.

 

As for Evans, I think whether he's a No. 1 or great 2 is a tough thing to gauge right now. Throughout his career he's been saddled by mediocre to poor QB play, and that has certainly hindered his ability to put up big-time numbers, not to mention consistently being the only far above-average WR on the roster. Either way, he's a guy for the offense to build around.

 

Regarding Edwards, I think the biggest disappointment about this past season is that we basically learned nothing about him. We saw poise and precision at times, but he also looked awful on occasion. It's 20-some starts into the kid's career and we have little to show for whether he's going to be the Man here in Buffalo.

 

I like Trent a lot, and I believe he can be the guy, but is he? Sadly, we won't know that for another 12 months.

[BuffaloBill]

Great points.

 

As for Evans, I think whether he's a No. 1 or great 2 is a tough thing to gauge right now. Throughout his career he's been saddled by mediocre to poor QB play, and that has certainly hindered his ability to put up big-time numbers, not to mention consistently being the only far above-average WR on the roster. Either way, he's a guy for the offense to build around.

 

I hear what you are saying but keep in mind Lee's biggest asset is speed. He does not have size to dominate and as he gets older (by NFL statndards) he will lose some of his speed advantage. I mentioned Molds he could beat corners with both speed and size. I believe this is what you need in a #1

 

Regarding Edwards, I think the biggest disappointment about this past season is that we basically learned nothing about him. We saw poise and precision at times, but he also looked awful on occasion. It's 20-some starts into the kid's career and we have little to show for whether he's going to be the Man here in Buffalo.

 

I like Trent a lot, and I believe he can be the guy, but is he? Sadly, we won't know that for another 12 months.

 

We have learned that he has difficulty against 3-4 defenses. His ability to play in bad conditions is also in question. Again i am not trying to knock him. It is just strong to say that he simply needs more time.

[Flbillsfan#1]

This is not a "let's slam Trent edwards thread." Rather it is a legitimate set of questions that seeking a collective response.

 

Is Trent Edwards a QB that can carry this team?

Is the system one that he can be successful in?

Does he have a surrounding cast that will allow him to be successful?

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

Trent is not good enough to carry an NFL team on his back (Think Peyton Manning). I believe at best Trent can evolve into a Chad Pennington type player. He is capable of playing smart mistake free foootball but he cannot will a victory and he can not carry a team. He must be supported by a strong run game and the coaches need to play him in a system that favors his ability to quickly read the defense and play mid to short passing routes. He is capable of not losing a game but he is not a "I will win the game" QB.

 

The results suggest the Bills system is a joke. After teams took away the dump off routes the offense folded. The lack of play action passes ws glaring. The predictability in play calling returned. Overall the system fails to impress anyone that plays against it, watches it or cares in any way

 

The o-line needs upgrades at center, RT and LG. Among this list an upgrade at center is key. The TE situation is a joke. Schouman and Fine are good reserve players. They are not NFL starters. I know this opinion will not be popular but sorry Lee Evans is not a #1 receiver. He is a superb #2 and Reed belongs in the slot. Please never put Roscoe Parrish back on the field as an NFL wide receiver again. Look at his stats and try to tell me otherwise (please no more .. he could be Wes Welker .. he is not and never will be). Back to Lee Evans. He is a very, very good receiver but he can not make a defense have to play to his abilities. Eric Moulds in his prime was a far better receiver. Lee has speed that can't be ignored but he does not have game presence. He would be a killer opposite a true #1. Good news is that the two heaed monster of Lynch and Jackson is as solid as they come.

 

My thoughts ... what are yours?

I pretty much agree with you EXCEPT about Lee Evans. You said yourself, Trent can be sucessful in MID to SHORT passing routes. To take advantage of Evan's skills, he NEEDS a QB that can get him the LONG ball. That is NOT Evans fault his QB CAN'T get the ball to him.

[/dev/null]

Besides the fact that in 3 years Jauron has gone thru 2 QBs, 2 RBs, and 2 OC's (JP/McGahee/Fairchild, JP&Trent/Lynch/Fairchild, Trent/Lynch/Turk). It's gotta be Trent's fault

[JayFromDC]

I actually think Trent Edwards is a good QB, somewhere along the lines, he lost his confidence and has never been the same since being destroyed by Adrian Wilson. Of course a better offensive coaching staff would have probably been able to reel him back in, which we have failed to do amongst many other things it seems these days.

[The Dean]

Trent is not good enough to carry an NFL team on his back (Think Peyton Manning). I believe at best Trent can evolve into a Chad Pennington type player. He is capable of playing smart mistake free foootball but he cannot will a victory and he can not carry a team. He must be supported by a strong run game and the coaches need to play him in a system that favors his ability to quickly read the defense and play mid to short passing routes. He is capable of not losing a game but he is not a "I will win the game" QB.

 

 

I think that's a fairly good take on Trent, and what he is likely to become. I'd be reasonably happy with that, actually. Of course, he could to turn out to be much better than that, or make no progress, whatsoever. He really needs to step up his play early in the game, and get back to showing he is smart and can minimize mistakes. He didn't make the progress he should have, this year. The concussion may have been a factor, but that is part of life as an NFL QB.

 

But, I think the premise of the thread is flawed: That is, without a primo QB, a team can't succeed. That is simply untrue, and the list of mediocre-to-crappy QB's with SB rings makes the point. Teams with great coaches and terrific defenses CAN be successful without a superstar QB. Obviously, a quality QB makes it much easier to succeed.

 

Most here seem to think that DJ is a crappy coach, and deserved to be fired after three consecutive 7-9 seasons. I happen to agree. The reason I agree is, I think this team has playoff-caliber talent. Not top tier talent, yet, but certainly more talent than many teams that are still playing. If I didn't think that was the case, then I wouldn't be so upset about Jauron's coaching.

 

But, according to some of these same posters, the talent on this team is sub-par. If that's the case, maybe Dick did a great job coaching this pile of dung to 7 wins.

 

The offense, properly utilized, has enough talent (for the most part) for Trent to succeed. A better Center and TE will be an enormous help. More OL help (even if it is quality depth) and one more reliable WR wouldn't hurt, either...but they aren't necessities for this offense to make strides. Of course, if the coaches decide to s#it the bed, whenever there is a chance to succeed, will it really matter to the bottom line?

[Guest dog14787]

Trent Edwards could be the next modern day Joe Montana in my opinion, the question is can we give him the supporting cast Montana had during his years with the 49ers.

[BobDVA]

Trent Edwards could be the next modern day Joe Montana in my opinion, the question is can we give him the supporting cast Montana had during his years with the 49ers.

 

 

Stop eating the funny colored mushrooms!

[johnnychemo]

Or at least keep them out of OBD!

[Billsinfla]

I'd rather have Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco or Chad Pennington over Edwards. I really don't think he is or will be as good as some do.

[bizell]

I'm not sold on Edwards... yet.

 

Do I think he COULD be good? Yeah. Has he shown me enough to say that he is a good QB? Naah.

[BuffalOhio]

Give him a superstar-type of tight end and watch things get better.

[Bill from NYC]

I think that's a fairly good take on Trent, and what he is likely to become. I'd be reasonably happy with that, actually. Of course, he could to turn out to be much better than that, or make no progress, whatsoever. He really needs to step up his play early in the game, and get back to showing he is smart and can minimize mistakes. He didn't make the progress he should have, this year. The concussion may have been a factor, but that is part of life as an NFL QB.

 

But, I think the premise of the thread is flawed: That is, without a primo QB, a team can't succeed. That is simply untrue, and the list of mediocre-to-crappy QB's with SB rings makes the point. Teams with great coaches and terrific defenses CAN be successful without a superstar QB. Obviously, a quality QB makes it much easier to succeed.

 

Most here seem to think that DJ is a crappy coach, and deserved to be fired after three consecutive 7-9 seasons. I happen to agree. The reason I agree is, I think this team has playoff-caliber talent. Not top tier talent, yet, but certainly more talent than many teams that are still playing. If I didn't think that was the case, then I wouldn't be so upset about Jauron's coaching.

 

But, according to some of these same posters, the talent on this team is sub-par. If that's the case, maybe Dick did a great job coaching this pile of dung to 7 wins.

 

The offense, properly utilized, has enough talent (for the most part) for Trent to succeed. A better Center and TE will be an enormous help. More OL help (even if it is quality depth) and one more reliable WR wouldn't hurt, either...but they aren't necessities for this offense to make strides. Of course, if the coaches decide to s#it the bed, whenever there is a chance to succeed, will it really matter to the bottom line?

 

I was in full agreement until the last paragraph. Even at that, perhaps I don't fully understand it's point.

 

Imo, Dockery didn't play hard this year. He was standing around on far too many plays and quite frankly, didn't appear to be in game shape. Couple this with a piss poor center, and this is too big of a hole to hide in this league, and too much to ask of a quarterback.

As we both know, I did my share of blasting JP, but I was crying out to get him good blockers before I knew who Trent was. In fact, blocking has been a need for this team since you watched games with us in the nineties (and I wish you were still in these parts). Still, here we are 11 or so years later and the team still needs a center and another guard. There are scattered exceptions, but the best way to get these guys is to draft them. Dick Levy simply refused to do so, opting to focus on small and/or frail defensive backs.

 

The defense is such a disaster, it would take a thread of it's own, if not 100. In short, the system sucks. In a 3/4, you could draft a hybrid, a DeMarcus Ware type. There seems to be a lot of those guys but would they do us any good here? Our weird system seems like it needs a huge Richard Seymour to contain the outside, and these guys come along very rarely.

I freaking hate this system.

[spartacus]

I was in full agreement until the last paragraph. Even at that, perhaps I don't fully understand it's point.

 

Imo, Dockery didn't play hard this year. He was standing around on far too many plays and quite frankly, didn't appear to be in game shape. Couple this with a piss poor center, and this is too big of a hole to hide in this league, and too much to ask of a quarterback.

As we both know, I did my share of blasting JP, but I was crying out to get him good blockers before I knew who Trent was. In fact, blocking has been a need for this team since you watched games with us in the nineties (and I wish you were still in these parts). Still, here we are 11 or so years later and the team still needs a center and another guard. There are scattered exceptions, but the best way to get these guys is to draft them. Dick Levy simply refused to do so, opting to focus on small and/or frail defensive backs.

 

The defense is such a disaster, it would take a thread of it's own, if not 100. In short, the system sucks. In a 3/4, you could draft a hybrid, a DeMarcus Ware type. There seems to be a lot of those guys but would they do us any good here? Our weird system seems like it needs a huge Richard Seymour to contain the outside, and these guys come along very rarely.

I freaking hate this system.

 

not to worry

 

Chances are that they will have a huge hole at LT to fill as well because they will either trade Peters for a draft pick or so alienate him he holds out to week 10.

 

hope that Division 2 midget CB they take in the first round can bulk up to block a little bit

[Bill from NYC]

not to worry

 

Chances are that they will have a huge hole at LT to fill as well because they will either trade Peters for a draft pick or so alienate him he holds out to week 10.

 

hope that Division 2 midget CB they take in the first round can bulk up to block a little bit

 

Even if I agreed with a Peters trade (which I totally do not), you are 100% correct, even if your post was tongue in cheek. Does anybody seriously believe that if Dick Levy got another first round early pick (Peters is easily worth this) he would grab one of the top LTs in this draft? How could any sane person think this? And even if he did, he would use the other pick on a defensive back.

 

I have a lot of fun between now and the draft. The information and speculation is great, but reality tells us to say hello to a #11 safety. We will have 2 #11s and a #8 in the secondary. After 09, we will probably have a top 5 corner.

[cåblelady]

the system sucks.

yup

[bflobarry]

I actually think Trent Edwards is a good QB, somewhere along the lines, he lost his confidence and has never been the same since being destroyed by Adrian Wilson. Of course a better offensive coaching staff would have probably been able to reel him back in, which we have failed to do amongst many other things it seems these days.

Totally agree: Trent has the tools, but never recovered from that shot he took from Adrian Wilson. I believe that our biggest problem, statistics aside, is our woeful defense. Without any semblence of a pass rush, teams just move at will against us, particularly early in games where they get a lead and then can dictate. Of course we desperately need a center and a real tight end, but even w/ the tools we have, if we'd run the damn ball and run play action EVER, we can move the chains(if I see an empty backfield again on 3rd and 1 I'm gonna scream!). But w/ Kelsay on the field, and mediocre linebacking, and no creativity from Fewel to generate ANY pass rush, we are sitting ducks. I think we have been sold on Poz and Whitner as being special, when in reality they are both average at best. But the biggest flaw is the total lack of any pressure on the opposing QB. Kelsay is easily the biggest offender: he is simply awful. Period. But I think Trent can be not just good but very good. 2 plays come to mind: Against Denver, late, on the pass to Jackson for aprox 60 yards- he had to step into that throw w/ a blitzer bearing right down on him up the middle. He took a tremendous shot, but delivered a great ball on the "wheel route" to Freddy, who ran it down to the 5. 2 years ago, w/ the game on the line at Wash: less than a min to go. Ball at aprox our 30, us losing- Trent steps up w/ an absolutely beautiful throw to Josh Reed, between 4(!) defenders, to get us into position for Lindells game winning kick. I TIVO'ed it and watched that throw about 10 times. It was a sensational pass. Bottom line: Trent good, pass rush sucks. Our #1 pick, for sure, will be Kelsay's replacement. Cut Trent some slack....

[NavarreFL_Bills_Fan]

This is not a "let's slam Trent edwards thread." Rather it is a legitimate set of questions that seeking a collective response.

 

Is Trent Edwards a QB that can carry this team?

Is the system one that he can be successful in?

Does he have a surrounding cast that will allow him to be successful?

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

Trent is not good enough to carry an NFL team on his back (Think Peyton Manning). I believe at best Trent can evolve into a Chad Pennington type player. He is capable of playing smart mistake free foootball but he cannot will a victory and he can not carry a team. He must be supported by a strong run game and the coaches need to play him in a system that favors his ability to quickly read the defense and play mid to short passing routes. He is capable of not losing a game but he is not a "I will win the game" QB.

 

The results suggest the Bills system is a joke. After teams took away the dump off routes the offense folded. The lack of play action passes ws glaring. The predictability in play calling returned. Overall the system fails to impress anyone that plays against it, watches it or cares in any way

 

The o-line needs upgrades at center, RT and LG. Among this list an upgrade at center is key. The TE situation is a joke. Schouman and Fine are good reserve players. They are not NFL starters. I know this opinion will not be popular but sorry Lee Evans is not a #1 receiver. He is a superb #2 and Reed belongs in the slot. Please never put Roscoe Parrish back on the field as an NFL wide receiver again. Look at his stats and try to tell me otherwise (please no more .. he could be Wes Welker .. he is not and never will be). Back to Lee Evans. He is a very, very good receiver but he can not make a defense have to play to his abilities. Eric Moulds in his prime was a far better receiver. Lee has speed that can't be ignored but he does not have game presence. He would be a killer opposite a true #1. Good news is that the two heaed monster of Lynch and Jackson is as solid as they come.

 

My thoughts ... what are yours?

 

I think Trent has the tools, but even the best QBs cannot carry a team without decent protection and a handful of weapons.

 

As you mentioned, the Bills need to upgrade their line. I wold also add center to that list...the 3-4 defenses we play typically take advantage of Preston.

 

Lee Evans is a top flight, #1 kinda guy...defenses take him away and we supposedly try to take advantage of the other opportunities. The problem is this: he's on of the few playmakers and he needs to get the ball no matter what. Take for example, Steve Smith. Teams double him all the time...BUT, the Panthers make it a point to get him the ball. They do reverses, short screens, move him around, and even throw into the double coverage. Opposing teams are more that willing to committ additional resources to one of the few playmakers the Bills respond by going away from Evans.

[SoulMan]

Edwards.........Best QB we've had since Jim Kelly.

 

Although Flutie might be in there as most effective - DF can also be credited with saving the franchise - at least for a while.