John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 I assume you haven't read ANYTHING I've posted over the past month? Ellis played in 7 games, and not once graced the field during the second or third quarters, at least that's what I gather from these situational stats: Link. Jauron may be giving him the Steve Johnson/Leodis McKelvin treatment, and he might be much better than anyone could assume. Obviously I'm being optimistic here, but I DO remember him speed rushing with more tenacity than any non-Schobel player on our team. He definitely needs to pack on some pounds, though- like 20. I am thinking that way as well cat.....I just think that we really need to follow the giants mold in this area....we need too many pass rushing good D Linemen....that is a good problem to have. It just effects the other parts of the defense too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Yes, I have. And I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. My opinion is based on my impression that he's a great pull blocker, has a natural "bucket" step (crucial for a center according to guys like Ross Tucker from SI.com) and is solid in pass protection. If you're worried about him getting pushed around, he has the frame to add a good 10 lbs of bulk in an NFL strength program, which I believe would certainly help his cause. That said, there's no way anybody, let alone you or I that have no scouting experience (I'm just assuming you don't either), could evaluate how any of these guys will handle the transition. Wood is good, but he's not the style we need. He's the lighter, smarter, more versatile center that can make the line calls and pull block very well. And yes, I know what his weight is, but since you've seen him play, you know he plays rather light. Not saying he won't be good, just saying he's not the best fit for our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Wood is good, but he's not the style we need. He's the lighter, smarter, more versatile center that can make the line calls and pull block very well. And yes, I know what his weight is, but since you've seen him play, you know he plays rather light. Not saying he won't be good, just saying he's not the best fit for our team. Ah I see. Your post makes more sense to me now. You feel we need more of a power player/mauler than a lighter, Tom Nalen-type. I guess we're just prioritizing the skill sets differently. Very good then. I'd imagine that your center of choice is probably the aforementioned Mack or Antione Caldwell from Alabama, he's that type of dude for sure. I certainly don't have the credentials to poke holes in your evaluation, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Ah I see. Your post makes more sense to me now. You feel we need more of a power player/mauler than a lighter, Tom Nalen-type. I guess we're just prioritizing the skill sets differently. Very good then. I'd imagine that your center of choice is probably the aforementioned Mack or Antione Caldwell from Alabama, he's that type of dude for sure. I certainly don't have the credentials to poke holes in your evaluation, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Yes. I answered John From Hemet's post on the bottom of page one, that most probably missed. I talked about Caldwell and Unger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 The only one that I saw play was Caldwell from Alabama. He totaly dominated the Florida Gators line in the SEC Championship game. I am not a scout but any of the top three centers would be better then Duke Preston. I would not trade up for Mack, the Bills cannot afford to waste picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 What is funny is that even though there is some debate on what type of center we need it is also probably obvious that our center play is so bad ANY of these guys would be an improvement..... I am not impressed with Fowler or Preston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 What is funny is that even though there is some debate on what type of center we need it is also probably obvious that our center play is so bad ANY of these guys would be an improvement..... I am not impressed with Fowler or Preston. I disagree. Since our line has been intact (Cleveland game), what has been wrong with Preston in there? He has straight up handled some of the best DT's in the NFL, in Shaun Rogers, Kris Jenkins, Jamaal Williams and Jason Ferguson. It has been my argument that the interior of our line was so bad in the beginning of the season because of Fowler at center, and when Preston came in, he was playing next to Jason Whittle and/or Kirk Chambers. Since our line has been intact, Preston has played very, very well. And you might not have seen, but I answered your post at the bottom of page 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 There are a few people in my scouting circle that feel Unger is the best center in the draft. Yes, better than Mack. Don't overlook Caldwell from Alabama. He's my personal favorite of the bunch, not because I think he's the best center, but because I think he's the best center for our needs. He is a run blocking machine, is stout, has great technique, and pushed around Peria Jerry (one of the top, if not THE top, NT in this year's draft) all day. IMO, we can't go wrong with any of the top 4 centers. Ok just found this. Just curious (and I'm being sincere here, this isn't sarcasm as much as it sound like it), since I assumed you weren't a scout in a previous post, do you get your info from a professional? If so, how do you hook that up (i.e. are friends or did you manage to get an in)? That'd be cool to be in on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 There are a few people in my scouting circle that feel Unger is the best center in the draft. Yes, better than Mack. Don't overlook Caldwell from Alabama. He's my personal favorite of the bunch, not because I think he's the best center, but because I think he's the best center for our needs. He is a run blocking machine, is stout, has great technique, and pushed around Peria Jerry (one of the top, if not THE top, NT in this year's draft) all day. IMO, we can't go wrong with any of the top 4 centers. Yes, ans4e64!! Caldwell is my choice as well. He played in the SEC which is the toughest conference in college football. He has also played against the top DT's in football this year and was dominant. Alabama was one of the best rushing football teams in college football as well with the fewest sacks against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Ok, we just watched Everette Brown impress now we can watch Alex Mack. Let's see how he does against the Hurricanes D-Line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 I just think we can do better in center play.....while Preston has held his own against the big DT's we dont get good push in the running game from there...... If we want Marshawn Lynch to become a truly dominant player we need to do a better job run blocking in the middle of our line. I really want this team to become a run dominant team next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I just think we can do better in center play.....while Preston has held his own against the big DT's we dont get good push in the running game from there...... If we want Marshawn Lynch to become a truly dominant player we need to do a better job run blocking in the middle of our line. I really want this team to become a run dominant team next year. John, With all due respect, what the hell have you been watching? Since our line has been healthy, we've averaged 145 rushing yards a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 John, With all due respect, what the hell have you been watching? Since our line has been healthy, we've averaged 145 rushing yards a game. you are correct, but keep in mind a lot of it came against san francisco, cleveland, denver, and kansas city. granted, you play the teams on your schedule, but with the exception of the jets game they've been up against swiss cheese run defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 John, With all due respect, what the hell have you been watching? Since our line has been healthy, we've averaged 145 rushing yards a game. I dont think any of those teams have good run defenses. It will be interesting to see how the O line does against the patriots tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I dont think any of those teams have good run defenses. It will be interesting to see how the O line does against the patriots tomorrow. jets have #7 run defense, the others are very weak. san francisco's 16th and the others are mid to high 20's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 PS.....Mack did not have a good first series. So once again I say like I did with Everette Brown you have to take a look at the work as a whole not based off one game.....you would like to see some dominant plays though from players you are going to draft high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I'm not sure Preston is an answer, but he does seem to play more physically than did Fowler. Unfortunately, he also displayed a penchant for some bonehead plays as well. As for Ellis not been given enough PT to show what he could do, I do recall his limited time on the field, and he got mauled far more often than not. He was frequently knocked to the ground with just a push/punch. Yeah, a bit more weight might be helpful, but he's way too weak to match up with Tackles in the NFL. The "man" needs to hit the weight room in a major way. I say, plan on him being a wash out. Draft and seek DE's. Kelsay needs to be cut from the team. Denney is solid backup. Schobel may or may not recover his former form (which was good, not elite). If Ellis proves this wrong, fine, we're the better for it, but it's totally on him, his skinny weak frame, and frankly, he didn't look all that quick to me when he was in there laying on his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 you are correct, but keep in mind a lot of it came against san francisco, cleveland, denver, and kansas city. granted, you play the teams on your schedule, but with the exception of the jets game they've been up against swiss cheese run defenses. While they weren't the best of teams, keep in mind that we didn't just run the ball well against them, we flat out dominated them. If you play a crappy team, you can attribute the win to the fact the team wasn't that good. But if you demolish the team by 20 or 30 points, you know you're also very good. That's how our running game has been. Dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 While they weren't the best of teams, keep in mind that we didn't just run the ball well against them, we flat out dominated them. If you play a crappy team, you can attribute the win to the fact the team wasn't that good. But if you demolish the team by 20 or 30 points, you know you're also very good. That's how our running game has been. Dominant. I may be reaching on this but I think this goes even further then just talent on the field.......we may or may not have the same coaches next year and I truly wonder if it would affect play call selection if they truly believed they had a run dominate line. Right now I think they have a good pass protecting line.....and that is why you see these stupid short passes instead of giving the ball to the rb and controlling the game. If we had a center who they felt physically move somebody out of the way in the middle maybe they would call the CORRECT plays. I will take that even one step further what if the coaches actually believed that their running game was dominant enough that they actually called play action passes BECAUSE they felt the running game was effective enough thus creating more big play opportunities. Right now it looks to me like they throw short passes to make up for lack of a dominating running game (which actually is NOT correct based on the numbers you just gave) but they still have to call the correct play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I may be reaching on this but I think this goes even further then just talent on the field.......we may or may not have the same coaches next year and I truly wonder if it would affect play call selection if they truly believed they had a run dominate line. Right now I think they have a good pass protecting line.....and that is why you see these stupid short passes instead of giving the ball to the rb and controlling the game. If we had a center who they felt physically move somebody out of the way in the middle maybe they would call the CORRECT plays. I will take that even one step further what if the coaches actually believed that their running game was dominant enough that they actually called play action passes BECAUSE they felt the running game was effective enough thus creating more big play opportunities. Right now it looks to me like they throw short passes to make up for lack of a dominating running game (which actually is NOT correct based on the numbers you just gave) but they still have to call the correct play. 1.) Lets get this straight - we don't call short pass plays. When the play is over, that's what we end up with, but that's not what the objective of the play is. You can tell because Trent drops back in 5 step drops (3 steps are for short passes, 5 are for longer, developing routes) and then holds onto the ball (because teams take away the deep ball with us) and eventually has to dump it off. The one thing teams take away is Lee Evans and the deep ball, and that is the result for our short pass plays. 2.) If you notice, most of the time when there's pressure on the QB, its coming from around one of the ends (either Peters or Walker) and not from Preston or up the middle. Preston is doing a good job pass blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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