BillsObserver Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 What are you 12? You know absolutely nothing about about these people. You don't know what they do, how they do it, if they do it well, whether what they do is no longer needed. You know absolutely nothing about the situation, yet you know it is "disgusting"? And what does this have to do with Christmas? Are they Christians? Jews? Non-believers? You don't really know, but you're pretty sure they should get raises. I've been laid off twice. Once after buying a new house 4 months earlier and once while my wife was pregnant - I assure you that did not make the situation any better because it wasn't at "Christmas" time. I have no opinion on these layoffs because I have no information. I hope these people land on their feet - I'm facing the same situation as them. However, I'm in no way asserting I have a right to employment because my big-ass defense contractor company made billions last year. If they don't have work for me, they don't have work for me, regardless of their profits. Plain and simple. You might want to put a basic economics book on your wish list this season. Or maybe start your own business and then see how much your mind changes about evil employers. I agree. You shouldn't make assumptions on limited information. Chances are that's not Roger's e-mail address and if it is, he'll have a good ol' laugh at the notion of re-hiring the people that were canned at higher salaries. Listen closely, it..will...never....happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 They are a corporation that is given a lot of concessions from the government so they can operate well and they give little back to them in exchange. The defense contractor you worked for was supplying a product that was vital to our national defense. They can do what they want but I can also exercise my free speech. BTW, A Christmas Carol isn't a comedy. Did you stop for a moment and ask yourself what 1,100 people could possibly be doing in the corporate offices? That seems to be an astronomical number considering they don't actually run any teams. Regardless, your viewpoints on business and how they should operate are dreadfully naive. Again, start your own business and give it a whirl. I assure you that your point of view will be forever altered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 How the hell do you know? You don't think in these times that some sources of revenue are down? Even if it's "bull crap" as you say, what's wrong with reducing costs if you can improve the bottom line and still operate as needed? For starters, I watch a lot of football, and I have not heard about any widespread blackouts because teams are failing to sell out games. Second - the NFL's television revenue is gauranteed. If anyone is hurting it is the networks, who pay the NFL for the right to broadcast games, regardless of declining ad revenue. (or do you think that Godell and the owners cut the networks a break). I am a capitalist and I don't have any problem with reducing costs and improving the bottom line, but at what price? Unless the 150 people that are being let go were just sitting around collecting a paycheck, someone is going to pick up the slack, without being paid anymore. I went through this early in my career. I worked for a large telecom company that laid off over half our department. My workload, which was already high, practically doubled, while our bonuses decreased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Did you stop for a moment and ask yourself what 1,100 people could possibly be doing in the corporate offices? That seems to be an astronomical number considering they don't actually run any teams. Regardless, your viewpoints on business and how they should operate are dreadfully naive. Again, start your own business and give it a whirl. I assure you that your point of view will be forever altered. How many people are needed there? At one time they needed them all. NEW YORK–The recession has hit the NFL. The league said Tuesday it is cutting more than 10 per cent of its headquarters staff in response to the downturn in the nation's economy. Explain to me how hard the NFL has it. We know they make $1.1 billion a year for the rights to MNF. I think they can afford to keep these people on. Second a small business isn't even close to the size of the NFL so starting my own business will not teach me a thing about a corporation the size of the NFL. I don't know why you think it would. I'm very familiar with how small business operates. A good friend of mine has one. This is not a small business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I am a capitalist and I don't have any problem with reducing costs and improving the bottom line, but at what price? Unless the 150 people that are being let go were just sitting around collecting a paycheck, someone is going to pick up the slack, without being paid anymore. At whatever price the owners of the business decide. If you don't agree with that, you are not in fact a capitalist but just want to reap the benefits when times are good. Usually businesses redesign process to reduce or eliminate non-essential tasks to deal with the reduction in head count. For instance, perhaps the NFL is going to tone down the partying at the Super Bowl to avoid bad PR. Thus, they need fewer people in the Events dept. But even without that, there are very few companies out there that don't have at least 10% fat in the staff head count. I went through this early in my career. I worked for a large telecom company that laid off over half our department. My workload, which was already high, practically doubled, while our bonuses decreased. And you were free to leave and find another job anytime you wanted. Isn't freedom great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hossage Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The excellent beer I brew in a plastic bucket from lowes costs 15 dollars and yields 3 gallons. Brewferm.com Paying that much for a nasty, thin beer is just wrong. Seriously though, their beers kits are very easy and top quality. All you do is put it in a bucket and wait for a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Oh, the humanity! http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/550842 150 jobs at 50K a piece...7.5 million....sheesh if Kelsay and Schobel and Dockery and walker took slight pay cuts all these people would still have a job. What a joke. The salary situation is warped and the owners are greedy weasels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 At whatever price the owners of the business decide. If you don't agree with that, you are not in fact a capitalist but just want to reap the benefits when times are good. Usually businesses redesign process to reduce or eliminate non-essential tasks to deal with the reduction in head count. For instance, perhaps the NFL is going to tone down the partying at the Super Bowl to avoid bad PR. Thus, they need fewer people in the Events dept. But even without that, there are very few companies out there that don't have at least 10% fat in the staff head count. And you were free to leave and find another job anytime you wanted. Isn't freedom great? I agree with what you are saying and while I don't disagree with the concept of layoffs, the truth is that in many cases, many productive workers are let go while the idiots stay. Politics 101. My original post was simply pointing out that the NFL was using the downturn as an excuse to lay people off. In theory, because of the gauranteed TV revenue and no reports suggesting that attendence figures are down, the NFL is not being hit as hard as other industries. The downturn was a convenient excuse. Now if the NFL had said that they were laying these people off in preperation for an expected decline in revenues next year that would be a different story, but don't insult our intelligence. As far as having the freedom to leave anytime I wanted, I laugh at the fact that you make it sound that simple (I eventually did leave). Out of curiosity, what do you do for a living? Have you ever been through a layoff? Have you ever seen a lot of very good people shown the door while some of the most incompentent workers, including management get to stay? Unless you have ever seen HR walk through the hallway and tap some of your close friends on the shoulder and escort them out of the building you should shut your !@#$ing mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 They can do what they want but I can also exercise my free uniformed speech. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/sports/f...l/10nfl.html?em The N.F.L. has a total of 1,100 employees at its New York headquarters, at NFL Films in New Jersey and at the Los Angeles offices of the NFL Network and NFL.com. Although voluntary buyouts are being offered now, the league will not determine the breakdown of cuts until after the championship game on Feb. 1. The N.F.L. is being squeezed by, among other things, sagging licensed merchandising sales, sponsorship renewals and new-media deals. Operating costs, meanwhile, are rising as part of the collective bargaining agreement struck in March 2006. Players will receive about $4.5 billion in salary and benefits in 2008, according to owners. “There was a time that if the N.F.L. said, ‘I would like a window shades company as a sponsor,’ they would have a slew of prospects trying to throw money at them to be the official window shades company of the N.F.L.,” Ganis said. “Sponsors are being much more discriminating with the use of their dollars now. Advertising money is going to decrease, if for no other reason than the auto industry has shrunk. The N.F.L. relies on auto, finance and real estate — it is a mess. Yet your costs aren’t going down. You signed contracts for their increases.” Wow, SD you really nailed it. How should the NFL go about handing out the raises to the employees that haven't been identified for the RIF yet? Has your disgust for the Christmas layoffs that didn't happen gone away? Will you be sending a letter to the NFL retracting your statements? Curious minds want to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 What are you 12? You know absolutely nothing about about these people. You don't know what they do, how they do it, if they do it well, whether what they do is no longer needed. You know absolutely nothing about the situation, yet you know it is "disgusting"? And what does this have to do with Christmas? Are they Christians? Jews? Non-believers? You don't really know, but you're pretty sure they should get raises. I've been laid off twice. Once after buying a new house 4 months earlier and once while my wife was pregnant - I assure you that did not make the situation any better because it wasn't at "Christmas" time. I have no opinion on these layoffs because I have no information. I hope these people land on their feet - I'm facing the same situation as them. However, I'm in no way asserting I have a right to employment because my big-ass defense contractor company made billions last year. If they don't have work for me, they don't have work for me, regardless of their profits. Plain and simple. You might want to put a basic economics book on your wish list this season. Or maybe start your own business and then see how much your mind changes about evil employers. You seem to miss the idea that employers and employees are in a partnership. And when that partnership is one sided then it becomes knowing the difference between right and wrong. Most partnerships fail. And most business ventures end in failure. However, when an employer makes record profits it's reasonable to conclude that they owe their employees something. A decent wage and/or job security. Most of the time employees are very understanding when it comes to a struggling business that needs to cut back to get lean. It's also a general practice in this country that employers wait until after the new year to hire or fire employees. That's been a fact of life in this country for years. Furthermore, look at how Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank was crying about how Bobby Petrino left him high and dry. He was saying that he committed all these expenses to paying Petrino's assistants and that Petrino stuck him no coach with no notice . . . blah blah. It's called "employment at will". And if you can take advantage of "employment at will" you can also be burned by it. Don't bleeping cry about it. That's what being a business man is all about. Don't get up there in front of the media and start crying about someone's lack of committment to you as an employee, when you'll just turn around and fire someone for no reason at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 At whatever price the owners of the business decide. If you don't agree with that, you are not in fact a capitalist but just want to reap the benefits when times are good. Usually businesses redesign process to reduce or eliminate non-essential tasks to deal with the reduction in head count. For instance, perhaps the NFL is going to tone down the partying at the Super Bowl to avoid bad PR. Thus, they need fewer people in the Events dept. But even without that, there are very few companies out there that don't have at least 10% fat in the staff head count. And you were free to leave and find another job anytime you wanted. Isn't freedom great? But you see, you're not really free to leave anytime you want. Ask Bobby Petrino. He did nothing wrong. He left an employer and yet he was ripped up and down in the media. The guy got another job. He's not required to give any notice at all. Same thing goes for Nick Saban. He did nothing wrong. Everyone said he lied. That's horse hockey. He's not required to tell anyone if he is in the process of getting another job. Lou Holtz tells his coaches "you better tell me if your looking for another job because I'll help you find one". And that's a good policy to have, but most people don't. How many times have employers lied about layoffs and then turned around and did it anyway. Grow up!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Just one note: "falls short of projected revenue" does not necessarily equal red ink. Hearing from people inside the industry (because a good chunk of these cuts are from Films/Network facilities) that both these and the mlb.com cuts are bullbleep in that respect, that league revenues are still up over last season. It's next season they're worried about, and with good reason. General Motors' "official car of the NFL" deal runs out in 2009, and something tells me that they -- and many other advertisers -- won't be renewing at their current level of sponsorship. Welcome to the unintended consequences of the free market, a subject all too many of us are familiar with these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Just one note: "falls short of projected revenue" does not necessarily equal red ink. Hearing from people inside the industry (because a good chunk of these cuts are from Films/Network facilities) that both these and the mlb.com cuts are bullbleep in that respect, that league revenues are still up over last season. It's next season they're worried about, and with good reason. General Motors' "official car of the NFL" deal runs out in 2009, and something tells me that they -- and many other advertisers -- won't be renewing at their current level of sponsorship. Welcome to the unintended consequences of the free market, a subject all too many of us are familiar with these days. I guess we agree on something Lori. Bottom line, it's a drop in the bucket what they're going to save cutting these jobs. They're not saving anything. What they should do is lower the salary cap. They can't do that right now. But in the future, I think the players (even with the union) would agree to cuts. And I think they'll agree to big cuts. Look what happened to the Arena Football league. No season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Bottom line, it's a drop in the bucket what they're going to save cutting these jobs. They're not saving anything. What they should do is lower the salary cap. ....and get off their high horse and reach an amicable deal with the cable companies for NFL Network. That would be a big chunk of revenue right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 This is a bunch of freaking bull crap. The NFL is not feeling the crunch - I bet revenues will not be down at the close of the year. The NFL has found a convenient excuse to lay people off and do more work with less people. I agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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