The Big Cat Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 And because neither of us has ever been to the moon, which of us gets to argue that the moon is made of cheese? Notice that's the first time I've said A WORD about the phantom groin injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 And in the league today (or any day for that matter) there might be one MAY BE two second year quarterbacks who meet your demands, and AT BEST five coaches who can have this genius by osmosis effect on their players. Plain and simple. Now, if you want to argue that Jauron and Trent aren't in the elite, fine, I'll accept that. Apparently you wouldn't be happy unless they were. As a fan, you're perfectly welcomed to those sorts of demands. Understand though, there's a HUGE different between "HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE" and not-elite. He has subpar coaching ability and HORRIBLE integrity problems. Can we stop now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Notice that's the first time I've said A WORD about the phantom groin injury. At least you admit that it WAS phantom. That's a good sign, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 He has subpar coaching ability and HORRIBLE integrity problems. Can we stop now? Well, we're clearly not going to agree, yes we can stop. I guess it's no use since you know more about a guy's coaching ability than all the players who have played for him, all the coaches who have coached with him, and anyone else he's worked with during his 23 year coaching career. As for the groin injury, I don't know what to believe. To my knowledge this isn't the first time Jauron's yanked a QB during a game. Each time I remember it happening before he was very honest about needing to try something new. I don't know why he'd start pussing out now. Calling the injury "phantom" is based on a singular comment from Josh Reed. Calling it real is based on watching Trent throw 2 yard passes to receivers 8 yards away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomer860 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Too bad Lynch's talent is going to waste here .He should ask to be traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I'm not using one play, I'm using what I observed during an AN ENTIRE HALF OF FOOTBALL yesterday, at the game. When was the last time you saw Trent make the decision to throw deep IMMEDIATELY after dropping back? He doesn't. It's his last option because he won't make the throw unless the guy is WIDE OPEN. Now watch highlights of deep plays made by Eli, Big Ben, Bulger, Warner, MATT RYAN, or any other QB who's worth his own spit. Not only do they pull the trigger quick, they often put it into traffic and the receiver make the play. Again, when has Trent EVER done this? I take that back, he did it ONCE yesterday, and I was happy just to see it go up. It was incomplete but at least he TRIED! Against KC, Trent dropped back and threw a bomb to Evans who was double covered and in no way wide open. Against Seattle he hit Evans on the sideline for like 40 yards with a man right on him. That's whats frustrating to me. He can do it and has done it on occasion, but doesn't do it very often. The guys are are there and open, but he instead throws to ML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I guess it's no use since you know more about a guy's coaching ability than all the players who have played for him, all the coaches who have coached with him, and anyone else he's worked with during his 23 year coaching career. No, that's a good assessment. We should get quotes from his players in Chicago. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Eric Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 In order for a team to succeed in the NFL, they need a coach that they believe in and will follow (drink the coolaid so to speak). Changing coaches and coordinators every year or two does not help a team develop into a winner. Jauron might not be the guy, but Coughlin wasn't the guy for the Giants for the first 3 years. They finally fell in line behind him and started winning games. Pats too. New coach next year = 7-9. You are spot on. Changing coaches will do nothing for this team. The bottom line for me is that the guys on the field need to execute or they are out of a job. In this case it was not the play calling. It was Trent underthrowing and Losman taking three sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 No, that's a good assessment. We should get quotes from his players in Chicago. Anyone? I've got a friend who plays in Chicago and played one season under Jauron. Thought he was a nice guy but didn't help the team enough to win big games. Said it was night and day between him and Lovie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Well, we're clearly not going to agree, yes we can stop. I guess it's no use since you know more about a guy's coaching ability than all the players who have played for him, all the coaches who have coached with him, and anyone else he's worked with during his 23 year coaching career. As for the groin injury, I don't know what to believe. To my knowledge this isn't the first time Jauron's yanked a QB during a game. Each time I remember it happening before he was very honest about needing to try something new. I don't know why he'd start pussing out now. Calling the injury "phantom" is based on a singular comment from Josh Reed. Calling it real is based on watching Trent throw 2 yard passes to receivers 8 yards away. How sad is it that with an injured groin, Trent couldn't throw the ball (didn't know the groin was connected to his arm...) yet Big Ben is still throwing 30 yard strikes with a separated shoulder.....? And you didn't answer my question, with Jeff Fisher as coach of the Bills, would the team be 6-6 right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 In order for a team to succeed in the NFL, they need a coach that they believe in and will follow (drink the coolaid so to speak). Changing coaches and coordinators every year or two does not help a team develop into a winner. Jauron might not be the guy, but Coughlin wasn't the guy for the Giants for the first 3 years. They finally fell in line behind him and started winning games. Pats too. New coach next year = 7-9. The only way to fix this mess is for Ralph to pony up and spend the cash on a bonafide Head Coach. In a way hiring Donahoe may have been his biggest mistake. The league was already trending to the coach/GM hybrid type (Belichick, Parcells, Holmgren, et. al) and instead Ralph blew his wad on the personnel guy...he should have spent the cash on the one guy if he was going to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 How sad is it that with an injured groin, Trent couldn't throw the ball (didn't know the groin was connected to his arm...) yet Big Ben is still throwing 30 yard strikes with a separated shoulder.....? And you didn't answer my question, with Jeff Fisher as coach of the Bills, would the team be 6-6 right now? You mean the same Jeff Fisher who went 7-9, 8-8, 8-8, and 8-8 in his four full years as the Oilers/Titans head coach? I suppose the answer- given the way the team reset in 2006- is a resounding YES. I say full years because in his "first year" he was 1-5. FWIW- since then he's also had seasons of: 4-12, 5-11, and just two years ago: 8-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I understand, but isn't Turk the one calling the plays on offense? ....and whose brilliant idea was it to make Schonert OC? Jauron is going to fall on the sword for this, no matter what. Deservedly so, I might add, which I did just add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You mean the same Jeff Fisher who went 7-9, 8-8, 8-8, and 8-8 in his four full years as the Oilers/Titans head coach? I suppose the answer- given the way the team reset in 2006- is a resounding YES. I say full years because in his "first year" he was 1-5. FWIW- since then he's also had seasons of: 4-12, 5-11, and just two years ago: 8-8. Why so quiet, Heels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You mean the same Jeff Fisher who went 7-9, 8-8, 8-8, and 8-8 in his four full years as the Oilers/Titans head coach? I suppose the answer- given the way the team reset in 2006- is a resounding YES. I say full years because in his "first year" he was 1-5. FWIW- since then he's also had seasons of: 4-12, 5-11, and just two years ago: 8-8. And went to the SB in his fifth. At the end of Jauron's fifth year, he was being kicked out of Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode54 Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 How sad is it that with an injured groin, Trent couldn't throw the ball (didn't know the groin was connected to his arm...) yet Big Ben is still throwing 30 yard strikes with a separated shoulder.....? And you didn't answer my question, with Jeff Fisher as coach of the Bills, would the team be 6-6 right now? That makes perfect sense to me. Think about a baseball pitcher. Al Leiter threw for an ENTIRE season with a torn labrum and rotator cuff because he was able to handle the pain. With a groin injury, however, you can't push off and get no forward movement into the throw. That's why many of his throws went into the ground. Groin injuries can, in many cases, a lot worse than injuries to the arm or shoulder (depending on the degree of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 And went to the SB in his fifth. At the end of Jauron's fifth year, he was being kicked out of Chicago. I love how you like to cherry pick the part of his career none of us know enough to speak wisely about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I love how you like to cherry pick the part of his career none of us know enough to speak wisely about. And like you don't. I like how you choose to just ignore Jauron's time in Chicago, and try to pass it off as "we do not know enough to speak wisely about". Are we to assume you know enough of the early part of Fisher's career to speak wisely about it, and to make the comparison to Jauron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 It will help this Team plenty IF they hire the RIGHT Coach...Granted if The Bills hire another HC who should never be considered for the Job You're 7-9 prediction is probably close to correct...But if they hire the right guy The Bills will be in the Playoffs next Year...At least that's what I think... Now...I have no idea who that Coach is...But one thing I know beyond a shadow of a doubt...It's not Dead Dick... I am not one for firing coaches every three years either, but you hit the nail on the head. Since we were comparing Jauron to Couglin, why not take it one step further. Look what the Dolphins have done with Parcells and Sparano in one offseason...granted they got very lucky that Pennington fell into their lap, but who really thought all that much of Pennington to begin with? Parcells/Sparano took a miserable team, changed a few pieces, and have built, in my opinion, the most surprising team of the year. Who really thought the Dolphins would be sniffing a playoff berth 12 weeks into the season? They don't have the greatest talent, but they have adopted the personality of their GM/coach, using a pretty tried and true model. What we have in Buffalo is a lab experiment going awry...trying to get players that fit a system, rather than getting good football players and finding a system that works for them. On a sidenote, since about week 6, you can't really distinguish the offensive play calling of Turk Schonert from Steve Fairchild. That tells me, either we just aren't that talented as some people seem to think around here, and those coaches are calling what they think is best for the guys they have, or Jauron has a heavy hand in the tone of the play calling. If he doesn't, maybe he should... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 And like you don't. I like how you choose to just ignore Jauron's time in Chicago, and try to pass it off as "we do not know enough to speak wisely about". Are we to assume you know enough of the early part of Fisher's career to speak wisely about it, and to make the comparison to Jauron? Well, let's see, I didn't make the comparison to start. But this much I know, when Jauron took over in Chicago, they were coming off back to back 4-12 seasons. And when Fisher took over, he inherited a playoff team who went 10-6 and 14-2 in the years leading up to his promotion. In Buffalo we were 6-10, 9-7 and 5-11 before he took over. Seems to me the man has knack for inheriting CRAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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