O-Line is filled with mistakes in free agency & draft

[oak tree 12]

True...hindsight is 20-20 of course. The Bills O-line is not a strong unit because of lack of talent, lack of drafting, inconsistency, and even weight issues.

 

I did think Dockery was a good pick-up, but the Bills panicked and signed Dockery at the the height of the value of an inside guard. Buffalo saw the cost of Steve Hutchinson's 7 million contract, and they jumped on Dockery hoping that he was or would turn into a top 5 LG in the league. The truth is Dockery is good, but he's paid the same as Hutchinson; he is just two notches below an all-pro/perennial pro bowl player.

 

The Mike Williams pick really made the Bills front office gun shy on offensive lineman.

 

Here is what Buffalo needs to do for 2009 Offseason

 

1. Replace Melvin Fowler with Alex Mack of California, the top-rated center in the 2009 draft in Round #1. Preston backup

2. Sign a mid-level guard with some quickness to replace Butler in starting lineup and to replace Whittle

3. Resign Kirk Chambers to be a backup tackle. Give Demetrius Bell some reps as a backup

4. Draft another offensive lineman in round #4 or #5 for depth

 

like your thoughts however butler is going nowhere seeing they just resigned him. he was a tackle in collage and should get nothing but better as he is. we are missing him this last 3 weeks and its showing.

 

your center idea is right on. the kid from cal can flat out play and the sad truth is we do not have a starting caliber center on this team.

 

as you all know by now IMO preston should not be on this team. for a big guy he is a wimp. he plays with no physicality or nastiness and after what 4 years its very obvious to me that he cant paly the game @ guard or center.

 

as much as i hate mel keiper he was right on when we drafted preston in the fourth round and he mocked us out!

[Dibs]

.....IMHO, something is wrong with the blocking scheme this team is trying to run....just let these guys maul people and stop playing patty cake with them....

I have a feeling you could be right.....hopefully it won't take a total re-build of the OL to find that out for certain.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Are you kidding? If anything, the injuries to Whitner, Youboty, and McGee, the benching of Simpson, the potential loss of Greer in the offseason, and McKelvin looking like he will take longer to develop than anticipated, have proven the Bills do not have enough DB's. I expect Jauron to draft at least three more DB's in 2009. Hell, maybe 4. We are in dire straits here. One will be at least a first or second round pick. I also expect the Bills to carry 16 DB's on the active roster starting next year.

 

As for O-line. The Bills can just sign some guys from free agency. It has worked to this point, right?

 

Am I right?

 

Anybody?

[Ramius]

The biggest problem with the Bills hasnt been the lack of 1st round picks on the OL, but rather, the lack of 2nd-4th round picks on the OL. The Bills should be spending at least 1 pick per year in rounds 2-4 (if not round 1) on the OL. Thats where you get the best value with OL picks. With the injuries/inconsistencies along the line this year, it would be mighty nice to have a 1st or 2nd year guard/ceneet/tackle tp plug in and see what they can do.

[Orton's Arm]

Derek Dockery and Langston Walker were overpaid by tens of millions to come in as free agents two years ago. Duke Preston looks like a career back up after getting his head smashed in play after play by the Jets D-line Sunday. Oh wait, he actually looks like exactly what he was - a 4th round draft choice. Of course that's better lately then the other high paid free agent the Bills signed a few years ago, Melvin Fowler, who can't even beat out Preston. Brad Butler, by the way, when healthy, is a 6th round draft choice. I don't remember what round Whittle was drafted in, because he's in like his 13th year now. And Jason Peters - the best of all of them, was a rookie free-agent undrafted tight end when he came to Buffalo. And as Buffalo luck would have it, his first trip to the Pro Bowl as a left tackle made him a legend in his own mind, and now his STUPID hold out is costing the team heavily. Folks, that is one sad offensive line story for an NFL franchise today. Mike Williams was the last offensive linemen the Bills drafted in the first round back in what, 2002 or 2003? Year after year the Bills braintrust have passed on drafting offensive linemen in the first, or even second, or even THIRD rounds, and now they are paying for it dearly. Whatever happens this season, playoffs an 8-8 year or worse, I think it's time for Russ Brandon and Dick Jauron to start drafting offensive linemen on day one of the draft next year!

You are absolutely right about this. The Bills have neglected the offensive line ever since the Super Bowl years, and it's showed. I'd have no objection whatsoever to the Bills using a first round pick on Mack--currently we don't have a starting center. If they don't take Mack in the first round, or maybe even if they do, they should use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on an interior lineman. And if necessary take yet another lineman on the second day of the draft.

 

As Bill pointed out earlier this thread, this team also needs to upgrade its talent level on the defensive line. If Mack is there and a defensive lineman is there who you think has the chance to be special . . . it'd be a tough choice to make. If I had the two players rated about equally I'd go with Mack. The Bills are an offensive line and a receiving threat away from having a very strong offensive unit.

[Tcali]

You are absolutely right about this. The Bills have neglected the offensive line ever since the Super Bowl years, and it's showed. I'd have no objection whatsoever to the Bills using a first round pick on Mack--currently we don't have a starting center. If they don't take Mack in the first round, or maybe even if they do, they should use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on an interior lineman. And if necessary take yet another lineman on the second day of the draft.

 

As Bill pointed out earlier this thread, this team also needs to upgrade its talent level on the defensive line. If Mack is there and a defensive lineman is there who you think has the chance to be special . . . it'd be a tough choice to make. If I had the two players rated about equally I'd go with Mack. The Bills are an offensive line and a receiving threat away from having a very strong offensive unit.

 

Gee its good to know we are an offensive line and a receiving threat away from being a very strong offensive unit.

Too bad we couldnt have done things the proper way:Building from the inside out.-Then if you said"we are a WR and a TE away from being a very strong unit" it would be something thats doable---not some far fetched dream.-Build an O line in a year or 2??? Good f-ing luck.

[Dibs]

Gee its good to know we are an offensive line and a receiving threat away from being a very strong offensive unit.

Too bad we couldnt have done things the proper way:Building from the inside out.-Then if you said"we are a WR and a TE away from being a very strong unit" it would be something thats doable---not some far fetched dream.-Build an O line in a year or 2??? Good f-ing luck.

The thing that I find strange is that coming into the season most were convinced that we were only an OC away from having a very good OL. Probowl Peters, very good Dockey, new contract Butler & worthwhile Walker. IMO the ability is there.....it just isn't showing on the field.

[Dawgg]

The thing that I find strange is that coming into the season most were convinced that we were only an OC away from having a very good OL. Probowl Peters, very good Dockey, new contract Butler & worthwhile Walker. IMO the ability is there.....it just isn't showing on the field.

 

Dockery is not "very good" and never was. The Bills paid him like a very good player... but that doesn't make him one.

 

Same goes for Langston Walker.

 

... and therein lies the problem.

[Dibs]

Dockery is not "very good" and never was. The Bills paid him like a very good player... but that doesn't make him one.

 

Same goes for Langston Walker.

 

... and therein lies the problem.

Personally I don't have the ability to grade OLmen......so I rely on others. PFW had Dockery as the 10th best OG in the league after last season.....and most analysts(including those I trust from TBD) rated him as a fine player(though not dominating).

 

Walker was being lauded as good & versatile earlier this season(when he was moved to LT to replace Peters)......I recall many a comment(and actual article) saying how he was certainly showing himself worth the $5mil price we are paying.

 

These guys didn't go from decent(let's call it that) to scrubs overnight(a few weeks).

[thewildrabbit]

You guys get me!

 

Do any of you realize just how difficult the transition it is for a player to go from collage to starting in the NFL? Even with a top ten pick in the draft there is no guarantee for any of them to succeed. Look at Tony Mandarich and the Bills flop mike Williams.

 

It usually takes time for a player to develop into a starter,an example might be Bills 1980 #one draft pick Jim Richter who won the outland trophy in collage and sat on the bench for a few years at Buffalo before becoming a pro bowl player.

The biggest problem with O-lines is developing continuity,this takes years usually. They need experience and to play together to form a cohesive unit,which takes time.

 

For the love of god stop all the complaining and just think,the Bills could be like the Cleveland Browns who made the playoffs last year and are currently 3-5 or Cincinnati Bengals who just won their first game and are 1-8

[KOKBILLS]

For the love of god stop all the complaining and just think,the Bills could be like the Cleveland Browns who made the playoffs last year and are currently 3-5 or Cincinnati Bengals who just won their first game and are 1-8

 

Well I don't know about complaining...I think Folks are just pointing out areas of obvious weakness and discussing them...But still...Is the goal NOT to win The Super Bowl every year? I'm not sure I follow the logic of being grateful that we're not 3-5 or 1-8??? Should We as Bills Fans just settle for mediocrity? Sure 5-3 is better...But if the Season ended today (yes I know, I know) the Bills would be out of The Playoffs and they won their first 4 games!!! So tell me how 1-3 in the last 4 breeds gratitude? Tell Me how blowing a 4-0 start in 4 short weeks is going to make Folks happy???

 

And lastly...Are You new around here?...This is generally where Bills Fans come to complain, blow off steam, and vent about Our beloved Team...This is TBD...Your not going to find much gratitude around here until The Bills, at very least, play a Playoff Game or two...

 

Just saying...

[bowery4]

They could shuffle the guys around a bit to cover the glaring badness of the line at the moment. At one point Jason was a guard no? How about moving him back (I know he stinks at it but we wouldn't have to pay him LOT money, either ) Put Walker back there, it worked well that first game. The center? I don't know maybe Fowler is still not well and getting demoted might have fired him up a bit. Countinuety on the O line was really one of the things I looked forward to before the season, it is a damn shame it hasn't worked out.

"3. Resign Kirk Chambers to be a backup tackle. Give Demetrius Bell some reps as a backup" I like it!

 

I think they could try a 2 TE set and no huddle like some famous coach we had in the past did too

 

~honest

[JStranger76]

I would just move Butler to the Chambers "swing tackle" role and find another RG, keep Preston and groom a draft pick behind him, and as for giving Bell backup reps, he won't even be on the team next year if the front office has any clue whatsoever. I guess just keep Chambers and Butler as the backup tackles. For the remainder of this season though, Peters, Dockery, Preston, Butler, and Walker is the only way to go. Butler should be back soon.

[dave mcbride]

Derek Dockery and Langston Walker were overpaid by tens of millions to come in as free agents two years ago. Duke Preston looks like a career back up after getting his head smashed in play after play by the Jets D-line Sunday. Oh wait, he actually looks like exactly what he was - a 4th round draft choice. Of course that's better lately then the other high paid free agent the Bills signed a few years ago, Melvin Fowler, who can't even beat out Preston. Brad Butler, by the way, when healthy, is a 6th round draft choice. I don't remember what round Whittle was drafted in, because he's in like his 13th year now. And Jason Peters - the best of all of them, was a rookie free-agent undrafted tight end when he came to Buffalo. And as Buffalo luck would have it, his first trip to the Pro Bowl as a left tackle made him a legend in his own mind, and now his STUPID hold out is costing the team heavily. Folks, that is one sad offensive line story for an NFL franchise today. Mike Williams was the last offensive linemen the Bills drafted in the first round back in what, 2002 or 2003? Year after year the Bills braintrust have passed on drafting offensive linemen in the first, or even second, or even THIRD rounds, and now they are paying for it dearly. Whatever happens this season, playoffs an 8-8 year or worse, I think it's time for Russ Brandon and Dick Jauron to start drafting offensive linemen on day one of the draft next year!

Actually, Brad Butler is a pretty good player. Barring injury, he'll be starting in the NFL for a long time. Not a stud, but certainly a capable starter.

[Captain Hindsight]

yeah Bills fans will explode like Spinal Tap drummers if we dont deal with our lines this draft.

[BuffalOhio]

Do any of you realize just how difficult the transition it is for a player to go from collage to starting in the NFL?

 

I would think it would be quite difficult to go from a "collection of photographs" to being a starter in the NFL. Perhaps they taught you that in collage.

 

[Orton's Arm]

Gee its good to know we are an offensive line and a receiving threat away from being a very strong offensive unit.

Too bad we couldnt have done things the proper way:Building from the inside out.-Then if you said"we are a WR and a TE away from being a very strong unit" it would be something thats doable---not some far fetched dream.-Build an O line in a year or 2??? Good f-ing luck.

I agree that it would have been better to have built the team as you suggest. I wish that during the first day of the 2006 draft, the Bills' brain trust had said, "we're going to spend the day fishing, but we'll come back for the second day of the draft. Since we're going to be taking the day off, and since Bill is right here in NYC anyway, we'll leave him in charge of the first day of the 2006 draft." If things had happened this way, the Bills wouldn't have Whitner, Youboty, or McCargo, but they'd have Mangold and several other very good offensive linemen.

 

Currently, our line is an unmitigated disaster. Ideally, our line would be one of the five best in the league. But it's not like that transition needs to be made in a year or two. Even just one or two key improvements--such as taking Mack--would significantly upgrade the line's ability to keep pass rushers out of the backfield, and to open holes for Lynch and Jackson.