Today's Mort Chat

[d_wag]

Will be interesting to see how the Peters deal plays out. Will JP still try to claim he's worth top $$, will he take less, or will he be willing to go the final year of his contract, hopeing he does regain his form, if he does then ask for out of this world money and if the Bills don't agree, the nhe only would have ot wait out one year to become a free agent.

I wonder if he realizes his valsue has decreased or is he blind to that??

 

judging by his recent comments, he hasn't learned a thing........i expect another holdout next year, and another slow start to his season as a result

[Gordio]

Great post!

 

Remember, TD had to dump 2 worthless players (Ostroski and Fina), and it cost more than 10 million in cap space to do so. It hurt a lot because the cap was lower then, but he had no choice, whereas these guys were indescribably bad.

He tried to address the OL. He took Jennings who was imo very good but a china doll. Selecting MW was an act of arrogance. Williams was a fat RT and he passed on McKinnie and Jones to take a him at #4. The rationale often put out there was that his college qb was left handed, but that is garbage imo. MW was never going to be agile enough to play LT in this league. On his best day, he was nothing but a mauler, and RTs are simply never drafted that high. Not ever.

Because of the OL failure, this team had little to no chance of winning. Bledsoe needed all day to throw, and JP was thrown in there without a clue.

 

In summary, I think that while TD did have an eye for talent, he couldn't see so well because his ego and arrogant nature were blocking his view.

 

 

Bill, I have to disagree with you. The one thing I do not think you could blame TD is the M Williams pick. Every draft mag in the country had him & Mckinnie neck & neck. It is pointless to even bring up levy Jones, he was on noones radar in the 1st rnd & the Bengals were mocked out at the time for taking. I remember watching it & the ESPN crew when Jones taken just sat their in stunned silence, & finally Berman said "that pick is why they are the Cincinatti Bengals".

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Well yeah, but no player is ever going to come out and say I suck (well hadly any) Everyone is always great. But what does he and his agent privately discuss of his play. Does his agent tell him, unless he turns it around he'd be better off not signing an extension in the coming off season?? What's he really think? Something we will likely never know.

 

judging by his recent comments, he hasn't learned a thing........i expect another holdout next year, and another slow start to his season as a result

[Steely Dan]

Are you shocked that Tarik Glenn played his entire career with the Colts? Or that Ogden, Jones and Pace were never signed as free agents?

Teams will not let go of great LTs. They will apply the Franchise Tag until the player gives in and sins long term. The only exception that comes to mind was Willie Roaf, and there were said to be some pretty bad personal issues that involved a teammate.

 

Btw, the guys who would seem to walk away the most would be defnsive backs, with 1st round Bills leading the parade.

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Actually No I wouldn't have taken it better. With regards to the other three picks you mention; Parish, Losman, and McGahee, I wouldn't argue your point. But in Williams case, there was no clear concensious to take McKinnie. Maybe you felt they should have, but media, posters, etc were pretty split. McKinnie also had the history of the "U" behind him and certainly came off as having a bit of an attitude. Would he have been happy playing in Buffalo? I doubt it. Not that that's a reason not to draft him, but I'd be shocked if he were still playing here. Williams on the other hand came across as a good kid, bad player, but a good person which does matter. McKinnie certainly hasn't lived up to #4 draft status either in his career. Granted has been better than Williams, but not done enough to justify the #4 pick either. I don't recall, has he made any pro bowl yet? I believe two years ago he did for the first time??

 

The other names you mention, I'll give you the benefit on calling them arrogant picks, but picking Williams was a case of picking a player who's heart couldn't be measured. At the time very few people faulted the pick, in fact most called it a good choice and/or felt either pick would have been a smart pick. Though as was mentioned, maybe Losman was more a case of Sam W convincing TD that JP was the next great QB and he went with his recommendation. Will never know that one. If he had lived up to his build, the amount of picks they gave up for a good QB would have been worth it. In hindsight certainly was bad. But easy to say in hindsight as typically more bad picks than good ones.

 

Would you have taken it better if I called it egocentric stupidity?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Kind of funny too as I recall in TD's first year there were a couple of articles mentioning how TD didn't want an article about himself in the media guide. Described him as very private, un-assuming, had no ego. In reality, those were the things that seemed to have done him in. It was no secret he left Pitt as a result of a power struggle, but I don't recall anyone ever reading about him having ego issues in Pitt. Just more lost a power struggle. So what happened to him?? What changed??

 

There's been alot of talk how his coaches were chosen specifically to make sure neither person could ever become a bigger personality than him and he be forced out again. Could the opposite have happened, that by choosing a low key, person with no rep, all the attention fell on him and every mistake was disected?? In Pitt he had Cowler to run interference for him, here he was on his own. Was he trying to keep everything secret to not be "outed" for mistakes? He even went out of his way to have these "off the record" sessions with the media intially. Entire thing is rather hard to figure out what changed??

[Bill from NYC]

Kind of funny too as I recall in TD's first year there were a couple of articles mentioning how TD didn't want an article about himself in the media guide. Described him as very private, un-assuming, had no ego. In reality, those were the things that seemed to have done him in. It was no secret he left Pitt as a result of a power struggle, but I don't recall anyone ever reading about him having ego issues in Pitt. Just more lost a power struggle. So what happened to him?? What changed??

 

There's been alot of talk how his coaches were chosen specifically to make sure neither person could ever become a bigger personality than him and he be forced out again. Could the opposite have happened, that by choosing a low key, person with no rep, all the attention fell on him and every mistake was disected?? In Pitt he had Cowler to run interference for him, here he was on his own. Was he trying to keep everything secret to not be "outed" for mistakes? He even went out of his way to have these "off the record" sessions with the media intially. Entire thing is rather hard to figure out what changed??

 

Great questions Ed. The 2001 draft was excellent (I hated the move in round 1, but I was mistaken ), and the trade involving Peerless was a masterpiece. Getting Bledsoe cost us a #1, but it was in the following season which lessened the pain. Spikes imo was hall of fame caliber before the injuries, and London Fletcher was also a great acquisition.

 

He made some very good moves, but then screwed up big time wrt coaches, the draft, and other things. Tough to figure

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Yeah but the Bledsoe move made Buffalo appear to be a team to be reckoned with. Made us attractive to free agents, etc. Agree 100% regarding Spikes, until the injury looked like a great pick by TD.

 

Here's a question I always wondered about Bledsoe. The first ten weeks he was here played like an All-Pro, then NE comes to town and BB exposes all his weaknesses for the world to see. The next few games he did OK, but not nearly as good as the first 10 as I think teams copied some of what NE had done. But they were a bit nervious in doing it all game as probably thought it can't be that easy to rattle this guy. He's an ex all pro! Then the last game of the season, we play NE again, BB does the same thing and destroys Bledsoe. Now teams saw NE do it twice and starting the following season everyone we would play would just blitz the hell out of Bledsoe and make him look like garbage. Prior to us playing NE, Drew had never looked so bad.

 

The one other team at the time that was interested in signing Bledsoe was the Bungles. But Drew told them he wasn't at all interested in going there. Had he gone there, the way the schedule worked out, NE didn't play Cinnci for the next three seasons. There were some good receivers there. Would Bledsoe have looked great there as his weaknesses hadn't been exposed like they were by BB?

 

Getting Bledsoe cost us a #1, but it was in the following season which lessened the pain. Spikes imo was hall of fame caliber before the injuries, and London Fletcher was also a great acquisition.

[Lori]

Yeah but the Bledsoe move made Buffalo appear to be a team to be reckoned with. Made us attractive to free agents, etc. Agree 100% regarding Spikes, until the injury looked like a great pick by TD.

 

Here's a question I always wondered about Bledsoe. The first ten weeks he was here played like an All-Pro, then NE comes to town and BB exposes all his weaknesses for the world to see. The next few games he did OK, but not nearly as good as the first 10 as I think teams copied some of what NE had done. But they were a bit nervious in doing it all game as probably thought it can't be that easy to rattle this guy. He's an ex all pro! Then the last game of the season, we play NE again, BB does the same thing and destroys Bledsoe. Now teams saw NE do it twice and starting the following season everyone we would play would just blitz the hell out of Bledsoe and make him look like garbage. Prior to us playing NE, Drew had never looked so bad.

 

The one other team at the time that was interested in signing Bledsoe was the Bungles. But Drew told them he wasn't at all interested in going there. Had he gone there, the way the schedule worked out, NE didn't play Cinnci for the next three seasons. There were some good receivers there. Would Bledsoe have looked great there as his weaknesses hadn't been exposed like they were by BB?

 

Where Bledsoe was concerned, there were two major differences between his first and second seasons in Buffalo. Their names were Peerless Price and Larry Centers, and they combined for 137 catches, 1640 yards, and 9 TDs in 2002. They were replaced in the starting lineup the following year by Josh Reed and Sam Gash (69-671, 2 TDs). When Reed struggled with his newfound responsibilities, Bledsoe no longer had a viable option at No. 2 receiver; and while Gash was a better blocker than Centers, he certainly wasn't the latter's equal in the passing game. To make matters worse, Bobby Shaw, who took over as the No. 3 when Reed moved into the starting lineup, sucked badly enough at hot reads that Donahoe cut him four games into the '04 season.

 

I'd mention swapping Jay Riemersma for Mark Campbell, too, but that was essentially an even-up trade.

 

Lesser weapons, different Bledsoe.

[The Dean]

Where Bledsoe was concerned, there were two major differences between his first and second seasons in Buffalo. Their names were Peerless Price and Larry Centers, and they combined for 137 catches, 1640 yards, and 9 TDs in 2002. They were replaced in the starting lineup the following year by Josh Reed and Sam Gash (69-671, 2 TDs). When Reed struggled with his newfound responsibilities, Bledsoe no longer had a viable option at No. 2 receiver; and while Gash was a better blocker than Centers, he certainly wasn't the latter's equal in the passing game. To make matters worse, Bobby Shaw, who took over as the No. 3 when Reed moved into the starting lineup, sucked badly enough at hot reads that Donahoe cut him four games into the '04 season.

 

I'd mention swapping Jay Riemersma for Mark Campbell, too, but that was essentially an even-up trade.

 

Lesser weapons, different Bledsoe.

 

 

Completely agree. But, I will make an additional observation. Bledsoe's effectiveness, and the Bills offense, was far more effective in the 1st half of 2002, than in the second half. In September, Drew had a 70% completion rate, it was 55.6%, in December. The Buffalo weather can do that, in December, yet Gilbride had him throwing the ball as much as ever, and never made the adjustments necessary to win when the passing game is stalling (and the QB is spending a lot of time on his back).

 

By 2003, everyone had caught on to Gilbride's act. Even though Price and Centers were no longer there as receiving options, and the line was atrocious in pass protection (but not that bad in run blocking), the air assault continued (passing about 55% of the time). Bledsoe finished the season with a 58.2% completion rate (51% in December) and 49 sacks. That was actually an improvement compared to 2002 when he was sacked 54 times.

[Lori]

Nice follow.

[Dibs]

Completely agree. But, I will make an additional observation. Bledsoe's effectiveness, and the Bills offense, was far more effective in the 1st half of 2002, than in the second half. In September, Drew had a 70% completion rate, it was 55.6%, in December. The Buffalo weather can do that, in December, yet Gilbride had him throwing the ball as much as ever, and never made the adjustments necessary to win when the passing game is stalling (and the QB is spending a lot of time on his back).

 

By 2003, everyone had caught on to Gilbride's act. Even though Price and Centers were no longer there as receiving options, and the line was atrocious in pass protection (but not that bad in run blocking), the air assault continued (passing about 55% of the time). Bledsoe finished the season with a 58.2% completion rate (51% in December) and 49 sacks. That was actually an improvement compared to 2002 when he was sacked 54 times.

I was going to say a similar thing. I don't know, but, I was under the impression that opposing teams started to make adjustments to take away the deep ball & force DB to be more patient(which I believe was one of his flaws).

[The Dean]

I was going to say a similar thing. I don't know, but, I was under the impression that opposing teams started to make adjustments to take away the deep ball & force DB to be more patient(which I believe was one of his flaws).

 

 

Indeed it was one of his flaws.

 

Also, to Bledsoe, patience often resulted in sacks. He couldn't look over the options and feel the pressure and make the minor adjustments with his feet, to keep upright to deliver the ball.

[Lori]

Indeed it was one of his flaws.

 

Also, to Bledsoe, patience often resulted in sacks. He couldn't look over the options and feel the pressure and make the minor adjustments with his feet, to keep upright to deliver the ball.

First time I've ever seen "statuesque" used as an insult.

[OCinBuffalo]

Mort is to the Donahoe issue as

Obama is to The Surge issue as

Bush is to the (insert a lot here) issue.

 

All are emotionally, not logically, invested in "being right".

 

Look, I don't blame any of them for being loyal to their constituencies, Mort's is obviously to his buddy Donahoe, Obama's is to his leftist pals, Bush's is to his terrible staff. Loyalty is normally a good trait and should be admired. However, and I am speaking from personal experience here, blind, stubborn loyalty usually ends up getting you into trouble.

 

There's a time to simply put the shovel down, because you are never going to dig yourself out of that hole. I think Obama has clearly dropped the shovel, especially during his O'Reilly interview, which was smart. Bush finally fired Rumsfeld. Mort, in his infinite silliness, promises us to write a 1,500 word essay on "My Buddy Tom"...someday....<--That is probably the silliest thing I have heard all month, and I work in IT!

 

Mort: let it go. You cannot undo what has been done. It's far past time to move on. The collective consciousness of Bills fans are never, ever going to forgive Donahoe for taking our signs away, the draft picks, the QBs, or neglecting our O/D lines, all of which were the reasons he was fired. This is America, and you normally do get fired here for only doing a half-assed job. Edit: Unless you work for the Teamsters or Microsoft.

 

In the final analysis, I would give Donahoe a 60%. And, the last time I checked, 60% is not 0%, but still a failing grade.

[BuffOrange]

Really pleasantly suprised he acknowledged this question.

 

I don't think too many Bills fans would not acknowledge that TD did lay the foundation for the current team. The guys still on the roster who were a product of the TD era are as follows:

 

Kelsey/Schobel/Denney/Crowell/McGee/Evans/Peters/Lindell/Moorman/Parrish/Reed

 

The thing is just about every team in the league has Kelsays, Denneys, Crowells & Reeds. Bills fans either think they're better than they are or the worst players ever instead of what they are - easily replaceable run of the mill NFL players.

 

The other guys are of course nice players - it's impossible not to accumulate a few of them when you're the GM of a team that picks in the top half every year. To be fair, it is equally impossible to not make a few bonehead moves in that length of time. But when those bonehead moves are the magnitude of Bledsoe, Lossman, McGahee, Mike and Pat Williams - you're talking about 5 wasted 1st round picks in addition to letting go of what was the most valuable player on defense. Those are not minor F-ups, they are colossal disasters.

 

I remember reading a Mort chat in Decmber of '01 - the 3-13 season - where he mentioned how much he loved their heart and they were heading in the right direction, "watch out in a year or two", etc....4 years later he was still making excuses.

It's really hard to respect the guy even though I mock the "media respect" whiners on this board 90% of the time.

 

But yeah, good for him for at least fielding this question I guess.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Agree, but I think alot of the "credit" goes to BB for developing the equation to beat Drew. He showed how easy it was. Knowing him for so many years made it easy.

 

Completely agree. But, I will make an additional observation. Bledsoe's effectiveness, and the Bills offense, was far more effective in the 1st half of 2002, than in the second half. In September, Drew had a 70% completion rate, it was 55.6%, in December. The Buffalo weather can do that, in December, yet Gilbride had him throwing the ball as much as ever, and never made the adjustments necessary to win when the passing game is stalling (and the QB is spending a lot of time on his back).

 

By 2003, everyone had caught on to Gilbride's act. Even though Price and Centers were no longer there as receiving options, and the line was atrocious in pass protection (but not that bad in run blocking), the air assault continued (passing about 55% of the time). Bledsoe finished the season with a 58.2% completion rate (51% in December) and 49 sacks. That was actually an improvement compared to 2002 when he was sacked 54 times.

[The Dean]

Agree, but I think alot of the "credit" goes to BB for developing the equation to beat Drew. He showed how easy it was. Knowing him for so many years made it easy.

 

 

You want to give the credit to Belicheat? Fine, I have no real problem with that (although you have to wonder how the Bills beat the Pats* 31-0in 2003 if BB knew how to beat Blowso). Anyway, even when he was in NE*, the book on Drew was to hit him early.

 

But, the Bills coaches (particularly Gilbride) deserve their share of the blame. The coaches are supposed to adjust what they do, when what they do no longer works.

[BuffOrange]

Bellicheat pwning Bledsoe goes back farther than 2002.

 

Playoff Game #1

Hard fought rematch of this game.

 

This was of course prior to the 7-6 shootout loss to Kordell Stuart in '97.

 

As for '96, look at the Jags point totals vs. Buffalo & Denver (30-27 W's) compared to the NE game (20-6 L), and remember the Pats scored a defensive TD in that game.

[Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail]

At the end of the day, the bottom line is winning. In five seasons on the job, we did not make the playoffs.

 

I don't think Donahoe is as bad as some people make him out to be, but I don't see why Mort has a problem with the Bills and their fans going in another direction after five seasons (after two previous years) without a playoff berth.