Bleed Bills Blue Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 Ok, it gets even weirder, from Chris Brown 5 minutes ago: "CROWELL SEEKING SECOND OPINION: According to Bills head coach Dick Jauron, LB Angelo Crowell still has not has surgery on his injured knee as he's seeking a second opinion. That still doesn't change his status of being on injured reserve. His 2008 season is effectively over." I thought he had surgery yesterday? Ok, wait, he had it scoped yesterday, and the diagnosis was bad and surgery was recommended; so that's why he's seeking a second opinion today, and maybe it turns out he can play this year...but it's too late because he's already on IR?? WTF??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Just a bit of clear, well-stated information would go a long way towards assuring Bills' fans that the team's lug nuts are tight and firmly holding the wheels on the Bills' bus. When Jauron comes out and says of the Crowell situation "It came pretty much out of the blue, it was certainly something we didn't see coming.", he needs to be aware of the scrutiny and doubts his words will cause. At the very least such statements seem to point to confusion and a lack of communication within the organization, especially disconcerting coming three days before opening day. I think it would have been better for him just to say "we'll have a full statement and more details on this tomorrow." Jauron's comments, coupled with statements from his defensive teammates, does make it look like Crowell was really the one who handled things poorly; how could he not keep the team apprised of his plans in advance? In his defense, the only explanation that comes to mind is that his knee suddenly turned much worse, and he felt he had no other recourse. But you get the feeling the Bills FO feels differently. After all, it's not like Crowell suffered a sudden, badly broken bone or something. Maybe Chris Brown will step up today and clear the air. My guess is that he was being monitored by the doctors and it seemed that everything was going fine with the recovery. He could have further hurt the knee outside the complex and came back in and when the doctors checked him it was a lot worse. Hence, this came out of nowhere comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 To me, the thumbs up or thumbs down on the front office begins and ends with something we as fans do not know: What the Bills players in the locker room think. Usually you wouldn't necessarily let the inmates run the asylum and let the players determine the moves the front office makes. But usually, you wouldn't lose your top tackler for 16 weeks intentionally when he likely would be gone for 3. If the players. overall, felt that Crowell quit on them and was being selfish, then I can somewhat understand the move. But if the players look at this move and think, man, Angelo got screwed, and we as a team are short-handed because the front office was vindictive, then I think it was a horrendous decision, both hurting the quality on the field and the morale in the locker room and confidence that the coach is on their side and has their backs. I still think there is something we don't know about this. Certainly there is enough that we don't know to restrain from pouncing all over Crowell. If those who are doing so are wrong which is a very definite possibility, the result is a fan dumping all over a dedicated player who has done nothing to deserve it other than trying to play hurt. I don't know how anyone could do that and honestly consider themselves to be a Bills fan. I can't believe DJ was being vindictive so I hope to see a more plausible conclusion emerge soon. Maybe he appeared to be angry and all just because it was frustratingly bad news and putting him on IR simply means this is a worse injury than currently being reported. Something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleed Bills Blue Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 Jauron (basically) said Bud Carpenter and Dr. Marzo were involved on a regular basis, so it's pretty obvious they weren't the ones saying he needed surgery. So it looks like he got at least another opinion, which is certainly reasonable. Yeah, Jauron did say "To this point it's been Bud, our trainer, and Dr. Marzo." (as of last night), so that maybe indicates there's another medical professional who's gotten involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 yeah, Angelo threw the Bills FO and teammates a curve ball. You could tell he was biting his tongue. They didn't see it coming, and Jauron told us the real truth. Bleed Bills Blue, would you rather he lie or spin the crap out of it? IMO, it doesn't look at all like the coaching staff or FO aren't watching the road; more about Angelo decided that was the best thing for him, and didn't give any hints or warning that it might go that way. Even his teammates said he was practicing and were very surprised he decided to have surgery. The real issue is should they have IR'd him? I can't figure out if it's punishment or they simply can't afford to hold his roster spot, given that they only have 5 LBs and Poz had a short term ankle boo boo. I think it's punishment for blindsiding them like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Thank you for your studied medical opinion Dr. Promo. Clearly, despite the complete lack of any attitude problems on the part of Crowell over his entire career, he up and decided, on a whim and without any need whatsoever to have surgery on his knee and thereby foul up the most important year he will ever have in his entire NFL career after executing a master plan to puroposefully deceive his coach throughout camp to set the stage for his September surprise. The very idea that he had a degenerative condition in his knee as shown by the frequent swelling, that finally got bad enough to require surgery is preposterous. Degenerative conditions never worsen over time despite that being the very meaning of "degenerative conditions". Injured knees are well known to spontaneously heal themselves. I am just glad the front office stood up to all this crap about injuries and having surgery to repair those injuires. Otherwise there would be a line of players at the doctors door whining about how they have injuries and they need surgery too. The team can't afford to set such a bad precedent. IMHO, the FO as a good leader and manager of a team needed to perform the oft difficult task of avoiding this situation in the first place. Its a tough thing to do but it is success at these tough things which oft separates the winners from the losers. The Bills braintrust in this case screwed up by creating a situation where they did not: 1. Have good communication with Crowell as they thought they had. 2. Made choices of making cuts which chopped potential back-up LBs so thus they were dependent on Crowell being able to answer the bell. If they had any doubts about Crowell's status either because in their monitoring of his play they thought there might be a knee problem or in their relationship with Crowell they did not trust that he would play through the malady they should have kept another LB over an extra DB who played ST well. The Bills flat out misread the quality of their communication with Crowell and did not have good plan Bs for the misread. Stuff like this happens, but the bigger fear for this Bills fan is that the failure to manage the Crowell situation to a good conclusion joins up with the failure to manage the Peters situation to a good conclusion and failure to manage the Evans situation to a good conclusion. This simply leaves us in a situation where regardless of if you blame Crowell for screwing his teammates, Peters agent for not talking or Evans for not agreeing to a deal, the Bills FO (and I think the buck stops at Ralph's door for all of this) has not been good enough to produce good outcomes with 3 players central to the Bills putting a good product on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 does it? or is it just a complete knee-jerk overreaction by people on the internet? word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The Bills flat out misread the quality of their communication with Crowell and did not have good plan Bs for the misread. You know this for a fact, or is it just more TSW flatulance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 You know this for a fact, or is it just more TSW flatulance? The answer would be the latter.... or rather, the lana, if we are on the subject of flatulence. [/random reference to someone's sig line] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Where in Houston are you? I am in West Houston (Katy) Downtown at the moment (at work), live next door to you, in Cypress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The Bills braintrust in this case screwed up by creating a situation where they did not: 1. Have good communication with Crowell as they thought they had. The Bills flat out misread the quality of their communication with Crowell and did not have good plan Bs for the misread. BS and more BS. IT TAKES TWO TO COMMUNICATE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I hear ya, BlueBleeder - I like to drink the opposing team's beer, so it'll be Redhook (can't find Laughing Buddha anywhere in WNY) - and maybe a few bottles of Washington cabernet.... GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! I had my daughter put $ 10 on the Bills to make the super bowl this week ( 60 - 1 ) in Vegas . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Byrd Man Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I don't know who is at fault, as I don't have any inside info, but this is a major kick in the teeth. How we go from one of the better LB corps in the league back to square one in a heart beat just floors me. I do question the FO decisions on IR with players. They have a poor track record to date IMHO. The Pos injury/IR seemed to be a knee jerk reaction last year. I think this will be more of a blow to the team than the Peters situation. I wish I was a fly on the wall so to speak. GO BILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The Bills braintrust in this case screwed up by creating a situation where they did not: 1. Have good communication with Crowell as they thought they had. 2. Made choices of making cuts which chopped potential back-up LBs so thus they were dependent on Crowell being able to answer the bell. If they had any doubts about Crowell's status either because in their monitoring of his play they thought there might be a knee problem or in their relationship with Crowell they did not trust that he would play through the malady they should have kept another LB over an extra DB who played ST well. The Bills flat out misread the quality of their communication with Crowell and did not have good plan Bs for the misread. I usually enjoy your posts as you appear to know football quite well and you have good insight on the players, but I think you way off on this. It's pretty clear that: a) the Bills FO have been monitoring the situation thru their medical staff, the Trainer and Team Doctor b) they have been talking to Angelo throughout training camp and the preseason about the condition of his knee c) through a) and b), they totally believed he was doing ok and working through a tough injury d) Angelo surprised them with his decision to have surgery, since this was not the case until yesterday or maybe the day before. how do you possibly concur that the Bills misread the communication, or the quality thereof? Unless you're talking about hindsight 20/20, which I think you are... They believed what they had been told! Maybe they should have had a plan B for more backup on the LB corps, but if your staff and the player tell you he's ok and you have lots of other depth concerns, you do the best you can under the circumstances, and sometimes you get caught shorthanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Just a bit of clear, well-stated information would go a long way towards assuring Bills' fans that the team's lug nuts are tight and firmly holding the wheels on the Bills' bus. When Jauron comes out and says of the Crowell situation "It came pretty much out of the blue, it was certainly something we didn't see coming.", he needs to be aware of the scrutiny and doubts his words will cause. At the very least such statements seem to point to confusion and a lack of communication within the organization, especially disconcerting coming three days before opening day. I think it would have been better for him just to say "we'll have a full statement and more details on this tomorrow." Jauron's comments, coupled with statements from his defensive teammates, does make it look like Crowell was really the one who handled things poorly; how could he not keep the team apprised of his plans in advance? In his defense, the only explanation that comes to mind is that his knee suddenly turned much worse, and he felt he had no other recourse. But you get the feeling the Bills FO feels differently. After all, it's not like Crowell suffered a sudden, badly broken bone or something. Maybe Chris Brown will step up today and clear the air. Crow is in the wrong here. Even his teammates didn't know what was happening since they seen him practice w/o any noticeable discomfort. Unless they're all lying to conspire against 55. Doubt it. Angelo should've done the right thing a long time ago but chose not to. Contract be damned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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