Adam Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 You have to take the good with the bad for a player with Roscoe's abilities. There are a limited number of players in the NFL that can make anyone miss from anywhere on the field, and take it to the house. In no means am I comparing him to Barry Sanders, because Barry took it to the house a lot more than Roscoe can dream of, but their styles of running are a little similar. Remember with Barry, he'd go the whole game with 1 yard gains, 5 yard losses, 3 yard losses, and then break one open for 60 yards. It was frustrating for all to see Barry jumping around going nowhere for 3/4s of the game, but the fact is, you can never stop giving the ball to him because there's always that one chance he'll make the great play and break it. I'll say it again, in no way shape or form am I comparing him to Barry, but the coach-killing/game-breaking ability is there. Roscoe has more than just punt returning ability, also. He's clutch (made great plays at the end of games and drives to get us down the field), he can make the acrobatic catch (sideline, clutch, vs. Jacksonville), he can score on reverses running the ball, and he can take a 2 yard route and run past everyone (Jets game last year). The point is, you're going to have to accept the good with the bad with a player of Roscoe's abilities. Yeah, he's going to make some bonehead moves once in a while, but he's also got the ability to make plays that no one else in this league can make. I'd take my chances with Roscoe. Rob Johnson had some elite attributes too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Question is: Is causing your team 10 'three and outs' and then breaking one or two long ones condusive to winning? If it was a half-assed Wayne Fontes-coached team, it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Rob Johnson had some elite attributes too He was never half as productive or made half the plays Roscoe has for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Question is: Is causing your team 10 'three and outs' and then breaking one or two long ones condusive to winning? Theres where the difference lies. Barry was their starting RB, so that question applies. But, Roscoe isn't our starting anything, and his touches are limited to 5-10 a game. Is Barry's style condusive to winning? Not sure. But a 3rd or 4th WR is not the same as a starting RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGimp Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 All I hear is about how we need to get him the ball more, and how great he is and how he can build a rocket.....this and that He is one of the best punt returners in the league- there is no arguing that. He is very fast and there is no arguing that. He is tiny. He tries to make all these athletic moves and it rarely works. He has below average hands. He is not a route runner, much less a good one- and when he tries, he rounds off his cuts instead of making sharp cuts to get open. All of this is one of the main reasons he was an underachiever at Miami and continues to be an underachiever. His play if going to hurt Edwards' development- and could make him hold the ball too long and get hurt, you can count on that He is simply very hot......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOOOOOO Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 What Whitner lacks on the field, he certainly makes up for it in his leadership and talk. That said, I don't expect him to get 10 picks a year... just elevate his overall game. This year, the excuses are over now that the DL has been "addressed." I look forward to much improved play from hiim. Yes completely shutting down passing plays to his half of the field is underachieveing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Yes completely shutting down passing plays to his half of the field is underachieveing.... Credited with 1 pass defended.. Don't know...was he avoided, did he run over to help out others? Bills were #28 in overall pass defense and #25 in rush D. I can't see giving Whitner or any others on that D a nice pat on the head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Yes completely shutting down passing plays to his half of the field is underachieveing.... Over-pursuing on screens. Having difficulty covering tight ends. Not nearly as hard a hitter as advertised. But he sure talks a mean game. Don't get me wrong, I've seen promising things... and he is still very young and has the intelligence and tools to become an upper echelon safety. But let's not confuse him for one just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Is Barry's style condusive to winning? Not sure. I was strictly speaking of Barry, as no real comparison can be made except for each players propensity for losing yards. I've had the Sanders debate with many a folk and you are the first person who hasn't vehemently denied my theory. I know Sanders played on terrible teams but I think his herky jerky style of running may not have been suitable for NFL success. Breaking long runs is great but if your team is surrendering the ball to the other team 4 out of 5 series, are you really making any ground? As far as Roscoe goes, his style is perfect for kick returns but all too often he runs laterally and even backwards in terms of field position. A player can't just surrender 5 yards because he thinks he can break it for 20 more. Take the 5 and get back to the huddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Who would like to have one of the best punt returners in the league??? Roscoe doesn't have any hands? You gotta be joking, right? You are exactly correct. By the way, last year, I posted a link to a site that keeps stats on % of catchable balls thrown to wide receivers. The facts showed that Roscoe caught a higher percentage than Lee Evans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I was strictly speaking of Barry, as no real comparison can be made except for each players propensity for losing yards. I've had the Sanders debate with many a folk and you are the first person who hasn't vehemently denied my theory. I know Sanders played on terrible teams but I think his herky jerky style of running may not have been suitable for NFL success. Breaking long runs is great but if your team is surrendering the ball to the other team 4 out of 5 series, are you really making any ground? As far as Roscoe goes, his style is perfect for kick returns but all too often he runs laterally and even backwards in terms of field position. A player can't just surrender 5 yards because he thinks he can break it for 20 more. Take the 5 and get back to the huddle. Those Bud Light commercials featuring "Leon" always made me think of Sanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Question is: Is causing your team 10 'three and outs' and then breaking one or two long ones condusive to winning? about as much as rickey williams running the ball 35 times for 72 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantstopbeastmode Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Over-pursuing on screens. Having difficulty covering tight ends. Not nearly as hard a hitter as advertised. But he sure talks a mean game. Don't get me wrong, I've seen promising things... and he is still very young and has the intelligence and tools to become an upper echelon safety. But let's not confuse him for one just yet. Stop making comments dude. We can all tell you're wrong about Whitner. I'm the most negative guy on this board when it comes to trent and jauron, but you're dead wrong on whitner. He had difficulty covering tight ends? Really? Find me one single play last year when he was in man coverage on a tight end? Watch half of his hits in the pats game and bengals game last year and tell me if he's a hard hitter. I don't remember him overpursuing anything, and even if he did, he kind of has to with nobody else making tackles... Basically, watch the games if your gonna make comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 He was never half as productive or made half the plays Roscoe has for us. Maybe as a punt returner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 As far as Roscoe goes, his style is perfect for kick returns but all too often he runs laterally and even backwards in terms of field position. A player can't just surrender 5 yards because he thinks he can break it for 20 more. Take the 5 and get back to the huddle. A WR giving up 5 yards trying to break a big one is a lot different than an RB dancing in the backfield. And at Roscoe's size, I'd rather see him get tripped up trying to break the big one than see him get blasted over five measly yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 a new day, a new player to run out of town... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 a new day, a new player to run out of town... Yep, TBD is now running out Marshawn for his hit-n-run, roscoe for being a smurf, and Edwards for his poor pre-season performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 And at Roscoe's size, I'd rather see him get tripped up trying to break the big one than see him get blasted over five measly yards. ...but there is the problem. Five yards aren't measly. Moving the chains wins games. Roscoe surrendering field position and first downs based on hunches isn't going to do the team any favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 All I hear is about how we need to get him the ball more, and how great he is and how he can build a rocket.....this and that He is one of the best punt returners in the league- there is no arguing that. He is very fast and there is no arguing that. He is tiny. He tries to make all these athletic moves and it rarely works. He has below average hands. He is not a route runner, much less a good one- and when he tries, he rounds off his cuts instead of making sharp cuts to get open. All of this is one of the main reasons he was an underachiever at Miami and continues to be an underachiever. His play if going to hurt Edwards' development- and could make him hold the ball too long and get hurt, you can count on that So who do you blame for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 ...but there is the problem. Five yards aren't measly. Moving the chains wins games. Roscoe surrendering field position and first downs based on hunches isn't going to do the team any favors. Then you don't want a playmaker, you want a possession receiver. If you want someone to catch the ball, get his yards and be satisfied with what he's already gained, then you put Josh Reed on the field and throw to him. Personally, I'd rather see Roscoe get the chance to showcase his speed, acceleration and shiftiness and try to make something happen rather than take what the defense dictates. If that means gambling five yards downfield after a catch, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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