PFW's "The Way We Hear It"

[Pete]

I happen to agree with him.I hate drafting DB's in the first rd..That hatred started with derrick burroughs then JD Williams to Jeff Burriss..The only ones that earned it were Winfield and The So Called shutdown corner..And they left for big money..I wouldnt go as far as destroying the franchise but keeping them in a endless circle of not winning a Super Bowl category maybe..

Derrick Burroughs was really coming into his own when he suffered a career ending injury. I have no problems with that pick. Williams was a huge bust. Burris was a good pick IMO. We picked 27th that year and he played in the league for 9 years. He had a decent career for us. Great punt returner and he had some big hits. Winfield and Clements were great picks-too bad we could not hold onto them. But I did get sick of drafting CBs year after year

[Sherman]

Williams had the combine to thank for his draft position. I remember when he was drafted him all they could talk about was his speed.

[Orton's Arm]

Derrick Burroughs was really coming into his own when he suffered a career ending injury. I have no problems with that pick. Williams was a huge bust. Burris was a good pick IMO. We picked 27th that year and he played in the league for 9 years. He had a decent career for us. Great punt returner and he had some big hits. Winfield and Clements were great picks-too bad we could not hold onto them. But I did get sick of drafting CBs year after year

The last time one of our first round CBs met expectations, the Jauron/Modrack/etc. group allowed him to walk in free agency. If we draft, say, Dominique Rogers Cromartie, and he meets or exceeds expectations, how do I know that he won't be allowed to walk in free agency after his first contract has come to an end?

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

The last time one of our first round CBs met expectations, the Jauron/Modrack/etc. group allowed him to walk in free agency. If we draft, say, Dominique Rogers Cromartie, and he meets or exceeds expectations, how do I know that he won't be allowed to walk in free agency after his first contract has come to an end?

to the tune of $80 million

 

the answer is, you don't and you won't.

[Bill from NYC]

Derrick Burroughs was really coming into his own when he suffered a career ending injury. I have no problems with that pick. Williams was a huge bust. Burris was a good pick IMO. We picked 27th that year and he played in the league for 9 years. He had a decent career for us. Great punt returner and he had some big hits. Winfield and Clements were great picks-too bad we could not hold onto them. But I did get sick of drafting CBs year after year

 

You guys forgot Thomas Smith. He was very good imo mind you, but he was yet another horse on the merry go-round of losing.

[Lurker]

The last time one of our first round CBs met expectations, the Jauron/Modrack/etc. group allowed him to walk in free agency. If we draft, say, Dominique Rogers Cromartie, and he meets or exceeds expectations, how do I know that he won't be allowed to walk in free agency after his first contract has come to an end?

Since it's easy to draft his replacement....you won't know.

[Orton's Arm]

Since it's easy to draft his replacement....you won't know.

Therein lies the problem. Over the years, the Bills have shown they ARE willing to use first round picks on CBs, and ARE NOT willing to give those first round CBs extensions. Their failure to re-sign Clements demonstrates that the second half of this philosophy is still in place. Allowing both halves of this philosophy to remain in play bleeds the team of first round picks that could have been used elsewhere. The Bills need to build a solid core of difference makers, and that's very difficult to do when your plan is to use first round picks on "first contract and out" type players.

[K-Gun10]

How about Lito Shepard and their #1 for our #1. That would give Shepard the value of a 2nd round pick.

[Lurker]

Their failure to re-sign Clements demonstrates that the second half of this philosophy is still in place.

I agree. Stop drafting high performing CBs so the rest of team's needs can be addressed.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Therein lies the problem. Over the years, the Bills have shown they ARE willing to use first round picks on CBs, and ARE NOT willing to give those first round CBs extensions. Their failure to re-sign Clements demonstrates that the second half of this philosophy is still in place. Allowing both halves of this philosophy to remain in play bleeds the team of first round picks that could have been used elsewhere. The Bills need to build a solid core of difference makers, and that's very difficult to do when your plan is to use first round picks on "first contract and out" type players.

I say it again: $80 Million!

 

No, the Buffalo Bills are not going to pay a player like Clements that kind of coin, but they have proven that they are willing to open up the wallet when they see a player that, in their view, right/wrong/indifferent, is worth paying.

 

This is not a Bills issue, it's a consequence of Free Agency. There's so many examples of teams that can't (or won't) afford to pay a player the big bucks on the 2nd contract.

[Steely Dan]

Why that's a slap in my face! What are they try to tell me by drafting a RB in the 1st round when they gotz me?!?!

 

I understand your point but that has been done before with bad results.....

 

Jerry Jones has a HARD on for this kid. They could do pretty well.

 

 

Therein lies the problem. Over the years, the Bills have shown they ARE willing to use first round picks on CBs, and ARE NOT willing to give those first round CBs extensions. Their failure to re-sign Clements demonstrates that the second half of this philosophy is still in place. Allowing both halves of this philosophy to remain in play bleeds the team of first round picks that could have been used elsewhere. The Bills need to build a solid core of difference makers, and that's very difficult to do when your plan is to use first round picks on "first contract and out" type players.

 

You're talking about missing out on a lot free agents by paying Clements. 80 million roughly equates to Dockery, Stroud, Mitchell, Johnson and others. I'll take them not Clements.

[Orton's Arm]

I agree. Stop drafting high performing CBs so the rest of team's needs can be addressed.

 

 

You're talking about missing out on a lot free agents by paying Clements. 80 million roughly equates to Dockery, Stroud, Mitchell, Johnson and others. I'll take them not Clements.

I thought my earlier post had been clear, but I guess it wasn't. The Bills' organizational track record is clear: this team is NOT willing to pay to re-sign high performing CBs. Period. Given that fact, if the Bills take a CB in the first round, and if he does well, the Bills' track record indicates he will NOT be given an extension.

 

If the Bills are not willing to give extensions to high-performing CBs, they shouldn't be using first round picks on CBs in the first place. First round picks should be used on guys who, if they work out well, will end up spending their useful careers in Buffalo. First round picks should NOT be used on guys you're planning to let walk via free agency after their first contract is over.

[Steely Dan]

I thought my earlier post had been clear, but I guess it wasn't. The Bills' organizational track record is clear: this team is NOT willing to pay to re-sign high performing CBs. Period. Given that fact, if the Bills take a CB in the first round, and if he does well, the Bills' track record indicates he will NOT be given an extension.

 

If the Bills are not willing to give extensions to high-performing CBs, they shouldn't be using first round picks on CBs in the first place. First round picks should be used on guys who, if they work out well, will end up spending their useful careers in Buffalo. First round picks should NOT be used on guys you're planning to let walk via free agency after their first contract is over.

 

So you believe the Bills should always have mediocre CB's?

[BillsVet]

It's okay to take a CB in the first round, if both lines are solid. Buffalo's OL has been vastly improved in the past two seasons, but the DL still needs help. Who are the pass rushers on this team and what is their long term future? Both Schobel and Denney are 30+ and Kelsay is not the rusher from the LDE position needed to put significant pressure on QB's.

 

The addition of Stroud should make the rest of the DL better. I just can't see drafting a CB when there are impact DE's like Derrick Harvey on the board, assuming that takes place.

 

It's been said many times around here that the draft is about the future, and not merely the approaching season. My greatest fear is DJ knows his a** is on the line and will look to add a player that will help now. They could look for the most NFL-ready guy, even if that player doesn't have the long term potential. Then again, it's DJ's year to win, and aside from Modrak, there isn't a soul in the front office who knows personnel. If it's a CB in round 1, you'll know it's DJ. Three DB's in 2006 wasn't enough I guess.

[Lurker]

I thought my earlier post had been clear, but I guess it wasn't. The Bills' organizational track record is clear: this team is NOT willing to pay to re-sign high performing CBs. Period. Given that fact, if the Bills take a CB in the first round, and if he does well, the Bills' track record indicates he will NOT be given an extension.

 

If the Bills are not willing to give extensions to high-performing CBs, they shouldn't be using first round picks on CBs in the first place. First round picks should be used on guys who, if they work out well, will end up spending their useful careers in Buffalo. First round picks should NOT be used on guys you're planning to let walk via free agency after their first contract is over.

I understood your argument, and it has some merrit given the track record. Still, it doesn't bother me to draft first round DBs that much--if they perform at a high level for 4-5 years.

 

The 'stupid money' contracts offered in FA are not the Bills fault, and ultimately it would be no different if the players they were drafting/losing were DTs, OTs, or any other position, IMO. The Bills don't overpay--period, and I think the deeper pockets teams know and take advantage of that.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

I thought my earlier post had been clear, but I guess it wasn't. The Bills' organizational track record is clear: this team is NOT willing to pay to re-sign high performing CBs. Period. Given that fact, if the Bills take a CB in the first round, and if he does well, the Bills' track record indicates he will NOT be given an extension.

 

If the Bills are not willing to give extensions to high-performing CBs, they shouldn't be using first round picks on CBs in the first place. First round picks should be used on guys who, if they work out well, will end up spending their useful careers in Buffalo. First round picks should NOT be used on guys you're planning to let walk via free agency after their first contract is over.

it's very interesting that this specific issue was raised by a fan named Jason in last week's Fan Friday on bb.com. Scroll down to question #6.

 

Chris Brown's response is money:

 

CB: While you raise a valid point that a first-round cornerback who lives up to his potential will likely be difficult to re-sign in five years, that's not the way to build a successful football team. While you always have to look a couple of years into the future, you can't say, 'Well we'll only have this guy for five years so why bother?' What if he has ridiculous talent and is the difference in putting your team over the top and you go to the playoffs for four straight seasons and maybe even a Super Bowl? You don't pass on a guy that can help bring that kind of success because you might not be able to re-sign him in five years. You gladly add that talent to your team and make the most of it for those five years. The NFL has become a very transient league. Franchise quarterbacks and franchise pass rushers are the only players that more often than not stay in one place. Every other player at every other position is on loan it seems so I understand the frustration, but you don't turn your back on talent you think helps your team, provided the player is an upstanding citizen.

[Lurker]

aside from Modrak, there isn't a soul in the front office who knows personnel.

Doesn't it seem a bit disingenuous to say no one besides Modrak in the front office knows personnel, implying that TSW posters know more?

 

Brandon may be new to the GM role, but he has access to infinitely more information on these players than ANY fan will ever have. John Guy, the scouting staff, and probably folks we've never heard of on the Bills payroll are all more knowlegeable than us, given their inside information. Hell, even Ralph knows more about personnel right now than we do.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Doesn't it seem a bit disingenuous to say no one besides Modrak in the front office knows personnel, implying that TSW posters know more?

 

Brandon may be new to the GM role, but he has access to infinitely more information on these players than ANY fan will ever have. John Guy, the scouting staff, and probably folks we've never heard of on the Bills payroll are all more knowlegeable than us, given their inside information. Hell, even Ralph knows more about personnel right now than we do.

I was also surprised to hear Brandon say he's been plugged into the draft process for the last decade. Can he evaluate talent? Not sure, but I'm betting that he's learned a lot about personnel along the way.

[BillsVet]

Doesn't it seem a bit disingenuous to say no one besides Modrak in the front office knows personnel, implying that TSW posters know more?

 

Brandon may be new to the GM role, but he has access to infinitely more information on these players than ANY fan will ever have. John Guy, the scouting staff, and probably folks we've never heard of on the Bills payroll are all more knowlegeable than us, given their inside information. Hell, even Ralph knows more about personnel right now than we do.

 

It's not about how much information Brandon has been fed from Modrak. The point is who makes up the personnel department? Modrak is the VP of College Scouting and Guy is the VP of Pro Scouting.

 

Brandon is a newbie, although savvy. I feel that despite all the articles touting his abilities, his background (unlike Modrak) is not in personnel. Nowhere did I say the posters at TSW know more. Among NFL front offices, Buffalo's doesn't rank real high, at least at this point.

 

My question remains: who makes the final decision on draft day when there's a dispute? If it's complete consensus, that's the wrong answer. I would point out the triumvirate of decision makers is Modrak (who I like) Brandon (who's inexperienced) and Jauron. (who's a mediocre HC) Why then does this scenario breed much confidence, emphasizing my point that Modrak is the only experienced personnel guy.

 

If Ralph is doing anything besides nodding yes when his hand-picked men say something, he's interfering. Most teams' owners aren't going all out a la Jerry Jones. Bob Krafts, Spanos, Jim Irsay, the Tisch's/Mara's, none of them are getting in the way in the war room. They've got actual GM's who handle that sort of thing for them. They know to trust those people, because the Pats*, Chargers, Colts, and Giants all have outstanding personnel departments. Buffalo has a COO.

[Lurker]

I would point out the triumvirate of decision makers is Modrak (who I like) Brandon (who's inexperienced as GM, but has worked in the front office for more than a decade, played four years of DIII college ball and has been effective at every sports managment job he's ever had) and Jauron. (who's a mediocre former coach of the year with 12 years of coaching and 7 years of playing experience in the NFL).

Fixed.

 

I have a sense that this group will work well together. A blending of ages and perspectives. There's no template or playbook for becomming a 'personnel man.' Bill Poilian was a Mel Kiper wannabe when he started out, producing a draft analysis with his brother that he shopped to anyone in the CFL or NFL that would give him the time of day. At this point, Brandon has a lot more NFL experience than Bill did when he stepped into the job.

 

If Ralph is doing anything besides nodding yes when his hand-picked men say something, he's interfering. Most teams' owners aren't going all out a la Jerry Jones. Bob Krafts, Spanos, Jim Irsay, the Tisch's/Mara's, none of them are getting in the way in the war room. They've got actual GM's who handle that sort of thing for them.

Some owners are strictly moneymen who don't know if a football's stuffed or inflated. Others, like Jones and Rooney, know the game and can add good insight into player selection decisions. As much as TSW slaggs Ralph, I'd put him more in the latter than former category. Ralph can be mercurial, for sure, but I think he's actually pretty knowledgeable about the NFL game. I'd put his 40+ years up against any other owner in the league, a lot of young scouts and certainly all of TSW.