Say what you will about Ralph Wilson...

[Lurker]

Zubrus has been terrible this year, Drury had an average year, Conklin played better than he ever has ond NOBODY saw that coming, and Briere has been routinely booed at home and was almost moved to wing.

 

Oh, BTW. Briere and Drury make 20 million combined and Zubrus makes and additional 3.4 million for the next SIX years!

 

Don't get me wrong, we'd be better if they stayed but the numbers are the numbers and for what those guys are making they are grossly overpaid.

 

Derek Roy gave you 32 goals, 46 assists and is +14 for 4 million dollars.

Danny Briere gave Philly 31 goals, 40 assists and is -23 for 10 million. There are only three players with a worse +/- figure. Dan Boyle who is -24 in 34 games (GOOD GOD!), Steve McCarthy who is -24 in 54 games, and Brad Richards who is -27 in 74 games.

Never a good thing to throw out logic is a TSW pissing and moaning thread....

[Bmwolf21]

Some teams look at what they have, and might realize that the current group cannot get over the top. Then you have to look at long term success. Sure the sabres could have signed drury, briere, etc, and let vanek and roy go. But if they dont win in the next 3 years or so, they they are REALLY starting over. They may have taken a minor step back this season, but i think the moves set the franchise up better in the long term.

 

Who do you want lto hang your hat on in 3 years? a 33 year old briere and a 35 yr old drury? Or a 29 yr old Roy and a 28 yr old Vanek?

I don't think most people are saying we should have kept Briere and Drury and say "screw the future" - i.e., Pominville, Roy and Vanek. I think a lot of people are ticked that they probably could have kept one of the captains and still fit Roy, Pommer and Vanek if they had been more aggressive in trying to get them re-signed. It's just tough to look at the players that are still here - like Kotalik, Max, Connolly - and realize that they could have had Drury or Briere for the cost of two of those guys.

 

The other thing that ticks people off is the front office watched 69 goals and 164 pts leave over the summer and did nothing to offset that loss. They didn't upgrade the D that has been exposed as soft and too "finesse," and up front they relied on "the system" and a bunch of young, generally unproven guys to step up their games in a big way, and it didn't work out.

 

I'm thrilled that Roy is locked up long-term and is developing into a star. I think Pominville is on his way to being a star and hopefully the FO gets him locked up this summer. I love Miller but with his inconsistency this year, I'd rather see Buffalo give him a 3-4 year deal, not 5-6. But it will probably take 5-6 to get him signed, and they have no other options right now.

 

Honestly? I'd keep Drury in a heartbeat. There are maybe a 10 players in the entire NHL that elevate the rest of the team. Drury is that guy. He makes everyone better. I'd take Drury at 35 or older any day of the week. But we don't have to worry about that now, do we.

 

PTR

I would too.

 

But PTR - since he left, all I've heard is that Drury is overrated, he only scored one or two big goals in his time in Buffalo, and he's s traitor turncoat bastage who flipped off the fans on the way out of town. Why would we want to keep such an overrated player? (Especially when we've already got Max and Connolly...)

[C.Biscuit97]

Zubrus has been terrible this year, Drury had an average year, Conklin played better than he ever has ond NOBODY saw that coming, and Briere has been routinely booed at home and was almost moved to wing.

 

Oh, BTW. Briere and Drury make 20 million combined and Zubrus makes and additional 3.4 million for the next SIX years!

 

Don't get me wrong, we'd be better if they stayed but the numbers are the numbers and for what those guys are making they are grossly overpaid.

 

Derek Roy gave you 32 goals, 46 assists and is +14 for 4 million dollars.

Danny Briere gave Philly 31 goals, 40 assists and is -23 for 10 million. There are only three players with a worse +/- figure. Dan Boyle who is -24 in 34 games (GOOD GOD!), Steve McCarthy who is -24 in 54 games, and Brad Richards who is -27 in 74 games.

 

 

How bout these stats: Philly was the worst team in the NHL last season iwth 56 points. As of right now, they are in the playoffs with 91 points. Additionally, Philly fans are idiots (and boo everyone) and Briere is 11th in power paly scoring (which isn't included in +/-).

 

The Rangers were 6th in conference last year and are competing for 3rd this year. Also, they are one of the best teams after the all star break in the entire NHL.

 

The Sabres go from President's cup to missing the playoffs.

 

I really don't count Zubrus because he was a rental player.

 

Trust me, I'm one of the most positive people ever (I'm a Bills' fan, I have to be ). But the Sabres screwed up badly this offseason. You can't pay everyone but there are too many guys saying they would have taken less to stay here and the organization dropped the ball - whining about Edmonton with Vanek, the Teppo situation, waiting to the last minute to try and get a deal with Drury. This whole season has the reek of an organization that became smug and content (Larry Quinn makes an excellent face for that picture).

[C.Biscuit97]

It's a little early to whine about "gutting" the scouting department". And it's gonna be real interesting to see what Drury and especially Briere look like from years 3 on in their new deals. And it's awfully tough to argue that Brian Campbell is worth as much to any team as Chris Pronger or Scott Neidermeyer, which is likely how much he's going to get paid.

 

The long time rule of thumb in the NHL is you don't give big long term contracts to little guys over the age of 30.

 

The Sabres have had an up/down year for a variety of reasons but your "doom and gloom" isn't based on substance, it's based on emotion. This season looks a whole lot like last year, without the big win streak to start the year and the OT/shootout success.

 

 

The Sharks haven't had a regulation loss in the 20 or so games since Campbell has joined the team. If they go from decent team in the West to Stanley Cup champs, he isn't worth the big bucks (especially the 5 million he wanted last season from the Sabres)???

 

 

And guys in the NHL play well into their late 30s (Teppo and Chelios are a combined 345 years old). There will never be anything to convinced me that Drury (one of the best captains in sports) should have retired as a Sabre by any means necessary. You never get better by letting guys liek that walk.

[Alaska Darin]

The Sharks haven't had a regulation loss in the 20 or so games since Campbell has joined the team. If they go from decent team in the West to Stanley Cup champs, he isn't worth the big bucks (especially the 5 million he wanted last season from the Sabres)???

I think he probably is worth the $5 millionish he was seeking before the season but I'll be stunned if he's not one of the top 3 or 4 D-men in the NHL after this season and he's just not that guy. I've got plenty of heartburn with the Sabres not ponying up for all 3 of those players when their value was lower, but I understand letting both Campbell and Briere go when they did. The Drury thing pisses me off to no end because his account of them not sending him the deal they agreed on sounds like something fuggin' Quinn would do.

And guys in the NHL play well into their late 30s (Teppo and Chelios are a combined 345 years old). There will never be anything to convinced me that Drury (one of the best captains in sports) should have retired as a Sabre by any means necessary. You never get better by letting guys liek that walk.

I was referring to Briere, not Drury. I don't look at Drury as a little guy. I'm under the impression that the Sabres offered to match Drury's deal with the Rangers, which is probably all they could really do because they screwed up so royally in his FA season.

[Alaska Darin]

How bout these stats: Philly was the worst team in the NHL last season iwth 56 points. As of right now, they are in the playoffs with 91 points. Additionally, Philly fans are idiots (and boo everyone) and Briere is 11th in power paly scoring (which isn't included in +/-).

They made a ton more changes than just Briere. Jason Smith has been a bigger reason for their better play than any other single factor. To say nothing of all the injuries and strife they went through last season.

 

And FU for making me say nice things about the Flyers!

[C.Biscuit97]

I think he probably is worth the $5 millionish he was seeking before the season but I'll be stunned if he's not one of the top 3 or 4 D-men in the NHL after this season and he's just not that guy. I've got plenty of heartburn with the Sabres not ponying up for all 3 of those players when their value was lower, but I understand letting both Campbell and Briere go when they did. The Drury thing pisses me off to no end because his account of them not sending him the deal they agreed on sounds like something fuggin' Quinn would do.

 

I was referring to Briere, not Drury. I don't look at Drury as a little guy. I'm under the impression that the Sabres offered to match Drury's deal with the Rangers, which is probably all they could really do because they screwed up so royally in his FA season.

 

Good post and I do believe the team has a very good young nucleus. But this team was set up to win a Cup . The depressing part to me is it seems to reinforce the fact that Buffalo just simply can't fully compete with the big spenders. And that really sucks.

[apuszczalowski]

They made a ton more changes than just Briere. Jason Smith has been a bigger reason for their better play than any other single factor. To say nothing of all the injuries and strife they went through last season.

 

And FU for making me say nice things about the Flyers!

What about this season? One of the reasons for brieres struggles was that he didn't have a consistent linemate until the deadline when they made the deal with Tampa, and now he has picked up his play

[apuszczalowski]

I don't think most people are saying we should have kept Briere and Drury and say "screw the future" - i.e., Pominville, Roy and Vanek. I think a lot of people are ticked that they probably could have kept one of the captains and still fit Roy, Pommer and Vanek if they had been more aggressive in trying to get them re-signed. It's just tough to look at the players that are still here - like Kotalik, Max, Connolly - and realize that they could have had Drury or Briere for the cost of two of those guys.

 

The other thing that ticks people off is the front office watched 69 goals and 164 pts leave over the summer and did nothing to offset that loss. They didn't upgrade the D that has been exposed as soft and too "finesse," and up front they relied on "the system" and a bunch of young, generally unproven guys to step up their games in a big way, and it didn't work out.

 

I'm thrilled that Roy is locked up long-term and is developing into a star. I think Pominville is on his way to being a star and hopefully the FO gets him locked up this summer. I love Miller but with his inconsistency this year, I'd rather see Buffalo give him a 3-4 year deal, not 5-6. But it will probably take 5-6 to get him signed, and they have no other options right now.

 

 

I would too.

 

But PTR - since he left, all I've heard is that Drury is overrated, he only scored one or two big goals in his time in Buffalo, and he's s traitor turncoat bastage who flipped off the fans on the way out of town. Why would we want to keep such an overrated player? (Especially when we've already got Max and Connolly...)

I have been saying that all along, I'm not pissed they let those players walk, thats fine if you couldn't re-sign them, but they did nothing to improve the team but hold a press conference telling us they won't be as good as last season, and bring in what was supposed to be an upgrade at back up goaltender

[Lurker]

I have been saying that all along, I'm not pissed they let those players walk, thats fine if you couldn't re-sign them, but they did nothing to improve the team but hold a press conference telling us they won't be as good as last season, and bring in what was supposed to be an upgrade at back up goaltender

The Sabres payroll is already up $6 million (15%) from last year, and up $17.5 million (61%) from two years ago. How do you propose they "improve the team" enough to replace the scoring that left in FA without adding another $5-$7 million in salaries? This franchise can not support a $50 million-plus payroll.

[ExpertOpinion]

Looking at the Sabres free fall, I have to look at Ralphie and think they guy ain't all bad. Sure he's made a few bad moves over the years but he's never scuttled his team in one season like Tommy Boy has. The Titanic sank slower.

 

PTR

It's not really a matter of Galisano being a bad owner.

His one flaw as an owner is his unwaivering faith in Quinn, who has come back to Buffalo and promptly ruined another Stanley Cup contender.

 

The tradegy is there are no signs that Galisano's confidence in that Ahole is fading.

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

How bout these stats: Philly was the worst team in the NHL last season iwth 56 points. As of right now, they are in the playoffs with 91 points. Additionally, Philly fans are idiots (and boo everyone) and Briere is 11th in power paly scoring (which isn't included in +/-).

 

The Rangers were 6th in conference last year and are competing for 3rd this year. Also, they are one of the best teams after the all star break in the entire NHL.

 

The Sabres go from President's cup to missing the playoffs.

 

I really don't count Zubrus because he was a rental player.

 

Trust me, I'm one of the most positive people ever (I'm a Bills' fan, I have to be ). But the Sabres screwed up badly this offseason. You can't pay everyone but there are too many guys saying they would have taken less to stay here and the organization dropped the ball - whining about Edmonton with Vanek, the Teppo situation, waiting to the last minute to try and get a deal with Drury. This whole season has the reek of an organization that became smug and content (Larry Quinn makes an excellent face for that picture).

Last year NY finished with 94 points, today with Drury and Gomez, they have 93 and can max at 99. So at best they will have a 5 point improvement.

 

Philly was terrible last year but this years improvement is as attributable to Mike Richards breakout campaign and improved team speed and defense all around as it is to Briere. Yes Briere has 37 PP points, last year he had 30 and was a +17. This year he's got 7 more points but is -40 compared to where he was last year since he didn't and doesn't kill any penalties ther is no SH time to factor. There no way to hide that he has been absolutely terrible in his own end this year. He's been invisible for huge stretches of the year. For 10 million per you need to be more than a PP all-star. His PP production is similar home and away. He's -5 at home and -17 on the road.

 

Also, there's a difference between SAYING you'll take less to stay and actually taking less to stay. Briere, Drury and Campbell all said the right things publicly but when push came to shove the money was a bigger factor. Drury and Briere got 10 million when Buffalo probably could have afforded to give them 5 and keep the other people they wanted and stay under the cap. Campbell is going to get stupid money this year and he knows it. Why would he take 4 or even 5 from us when he's going to get Pronger money from someone? These guys have the luxury of saying the right thing in public and letting the club and their agents take the fall. That's what they pay the agent for. If I was paying somone 3% and they didn't do everything they can do to get me every dime I'm worth they're fired. Serioulsy, hometown discount is maybe a million or two, but 5 is just being unrealistic.

[The Senator]

Then there's always that possiblilty that Golisano has been so busy trying to buy the Bills that he's neglected our Sabres.

 

(Tommy G has been somewhat 'invisible' this year, no?)

[ExpertOpinion]

Both of these owners spend the money to have winning teams.

They just don't happen to have the players.

In the Sabres case they did until Quinn's policies ruined a great team.

[apuszczalowski]

Last year NY finished with 94 points, today with Drury and Gomez, they have 93 and can max at 99. So at best they will have a 5 point improvement.

 

Philly was terrible last year but this years improvement is as attributable to Mike Richards breakout campaign and improved team speed and defense all around as it is to Briere. Yes Briere has 37 PP points, last year he had 30 and was a +17. This year he's got 7 more points but is -40 compared to where he was last year since he didn't and doesn't kill any penalties ther is no SH time to factor. There no way to hide that he has been absolutely terrible in his own end this year. He's been invisible for huge stretches of the year. For 10 million per you need to be more than a PP all-star. His PP production is similar home and away. He's -5 at home and -17 on the road.

 

Also, there's a difference between SAYING you'll take less to stay and actually taking less to stay. Briere, Drury and Campbell all said the right things publicly but when push came to shove the money was a bigger factor. Drury and Briere got 10 million when Buffalo probably could have afforded to give them 5 and keep the other people they wanted and stay under the cap. Campbell is going to get stupid money this year and he knows it. Why would he take 4 or even 5 from us when he's going to get Pronger money from someone? These guys have the luxury of saying the right thing in public and letting the club and their agents take the fall. That's what they pay the agent for. If I was paying somone 3% and they didn't do everything they can do to get me every dime I'm worth they're fired. Serioulsy, hometown discount is maybe a million or two, but 5 is just being unrealistic.

And yet, Philly and the Rangers are both looking at Playoff spots, and Buffalo is fighting to make it in. Both of those teams did what they had to do to try and improve on the previous season, while the Sabres did what they had to do to make sure they wouldn't operate in the red (although most with try and rationalise it as the Sabres looking towards the future, like they always do)

 

The point you make about Saying and doing is true to, but not exactly in this case. The Ryan Smyth deal at the deadline last year is more like what you are talking about. He cried about how he wanted to stay an Oiler, and yet the entire deal went down because of what is being reported as a $500,000 difference in price. Drury had his mind made up and was only comming back if the Rangers didn't make him an offer. The Sabres have been reported as saying they would match whatever the Rangers offered him, but he never gave them the chance. Briere said many times he wanted to stay, but the Sabres didn't negotiate with him (they were apparently too busy trying to convince Drury to stay). They offered him what he asked for before he went to arbitration 2 days before the opening of FA, and after he already said that he guessed the team wasn't seriously interested in him and would test the market. The offer the Sabres gave him was pretty much a "take it or leave it offer" and was a quick attempt to try and keep atleast one of the 2. Campbell had said before leaving that the offer the Sabres made money wise was what he was looking for, just not the length of the contract. The Sabres wanted 3 years, he wanted closer to 6. Sure sounds like he wasn't serious about wanting to stay a Sabre

[Lurker]

And yet, Philly and the Rangers are both looking at Playoff spots, and Buffalo is fighting to make it in.

Huh. If the Sabres could have won 4-5 more shootouts, they'd be in -- just as Philly and the Rags would likely be out if they had lost a few more 'Bettman' points.

 

Why don't you address the payroll size issue I keep bringing up? Tell me how this team can support a $50 million+ payroll for more than a 1-2 year "let's take a shot at it" time frame. Because that's what you're essentially advocating by "doing what it takes" to keep last year's team together.

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

Campbell had said before leaving that the offer the Sabres made money wise was what he was looking for, just not the length of the contract. The Sabres wanted 3 years, he wanted closer to 6. Sure sounds like he wasn't serious about wanting to stay a Sabre

San Jose made big noise about doing what it took to lock him up before free agency too. Deal hasn't gotten done yet though. There's no way they're offering less money than Buffalo is, length of the deal is unknown. My guess is, however, that unless they offered him a 6 year max contract he would refuse any offer they made and hit the free market.

 

That whole thing with not negotiating and then not finalizing agreements that had been made is what it is. A story generated by the players and their agents. It may be entirely true, but I take those sorts of things with a huge grain of salt.

 

I recognize that this year was disappointing. However, I'm glad that we don't have the long commitment to players over 30 that NY and Philly now have. Is it better to make the playoffs? Definetly, but lets be honest with that. The team we have blew two multi-goal 3rd period leads in the last week of the season. They were abysmal in shootouts. They had two rookies in the top 6 defensemen for the last month. Afinogenov was terrible, Vanek took a step backwards and Stafford has a disappointing sophomore campaign. IConnolly was broken the whole year again. 'm pretty sure they had the youngest team in the league. With all of that plus the loss of Drury, Briere, etc. they're going to miss the playoffs by what 3 points? That's not cause for huge alaarm bells. That's a tweak here and there and growth from the players that are here away from being back in the mix.

 

I think most of us beleive that the team 2 years ago was better than the President's Cup team and they were 4th in the conference.

[apuszczalowski]

Huh. If the Sabres could have won 4-5 more shootouts, they'd be in -- just as Philly and the Rags would likely be out if they had lost a few more 'Bettman' points.

 

Why don't you address the payroll size issue I keep bringing up? Tell me how this team can support a $50 million+ payroll for more than a 1-2 year "let's take a shot at it" time frame. Because that's what you're essentially advocating by "doing what it takes" to keep last year's team together.

How do we know they can't support a $50 mil payroll? Have you seen their books? You saw what having a cup contender did for them. 2 straight years of ECF's lead to 2 straight years of selling out the arena and creating a waiting list for season tickets. They could have kept out of the financial problems they have by being pro-active and signing players before the last minute. Right after the lockout they were only giving 1 year contracts, wanting to see the players develop to make sure they are going to be good. That is not a way to build a successful team if you are as cash strapped as everyone says. You won't get players to sign for less after they have shown what they can do, you also aren't going to attract many players if you aren't willing to go long term because most of all, players want security, knowing that they can buy a house and not have to sell it in a year or 2.

 

If they can't keep up with the Salary cap, then maybe buffalo can't support an NHL team either (financially). Having an NHL franchise is not a right, its a luxury.

[apuszczalowski]

San Jose made big noise about doing what it took to lock him up before free agency too. Deal hasn't gotten done yet though. There's no way they're offering less money than Buffalo is, length of the deal is unknown. My guess is, however, that unless they offered him a 6 year max contract he would refuse any offer they made and hit the free market.

 

That whole thing with not negotiating and then not finalizing agreements that had been made is what it is. A story generated by the players and their agents. It may be entirely true, but I take those sorts of things with a huge grain of salt.

 

I recognize that this year was disappointing. However, I'm glad that we don't have the long commitment to players over 30 that NY and Philly now have. Is it better to make the playoffs? Definetly, but lets be honest with that. The team we have blew two multi-goal 3rd period leads in the last week of the season. They were abysmal in shootouts. They had two rookies in the top 6 defensemen for the last month. Afinogenov was terrible, Vanek took a step backwards and Stafford has a disappointing sophomore campaign. IConnolly was broken the whole year again. 'm pretty sure they had the youngest team in the league. With all of that plus the loss of Drury, Briere, etc. they're going to miss the playoffs by what 3 points? That's not cause for huge alaarm bells. That's a tweak here and there and growth from the players that are here away from being back in the mix.

 

I think most of us beleive that the team 2 years ago was better than the President's Cup team and they were 4th in the conference.

It is when you play the way they did this year, and were the best team in the league last year

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

It is when you play the way they did this year, and were the best team in the league last year

How did they play this year? They were streaky and inconsistent. Just like I'd expect a young team to be. This is a retooling year. They happen. If they had a fire sale and blew up the young nucleus that'd be concerning. They didn't do that. They turned over the reigns and there are bound to be some hiccups with that.

 

For the record, the Sabres had the most points in the league last year but were definetly not the best team.