Stl Bills Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I know sacks don't sum up a DTs ability to rush the passer, they're are other stats (pressures, huries, knock downs etc.) but its kind of interesting to look at sack totals. I for one, think this Defense would work pretty damn good with a guy like Pat Williams manning the nose even though he doesn't fit the mold. It seems to me that this defense would work even better with at least one lane clogger in the middle. Besides look at the sack totals for Bills DTs over the last few years, the most sacks came when we had probably the largest group of DTs in the NFL (per CBS sportsline)........... 2006 Tripplett-2.5 K. Williams-0 J. McCargo-0 T. "Big kitty" Anderson-0 Total-2.5 2005 Sam Adams-3 Tim Anderson-1 Justin Bannan-1.5 Total-5.5 2004 Pat Williams-2.5 Sam Adams-5 Ron Edwards-4 Total-11.5 Don't know how much it means...... just found it interesting, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Git'er Done Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Could someone explain why the DT's in a "Tampa 2" have to be super quick? I just don't understand. I hear of teams getting rid of guys that don't "fit the scheme", so I believe it. I just don't understand why. It seems like a guy who clogs up the middle would still be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I know sacks don't sum up a DTs ability to rush the passer, they're are other stats (pressures, huries, knock downs etc.) but its kind of interesting to look at sack totals. I for one, think this Defense would work pretty damn good with a guy like Pat Williams manning the nose even though he doesn't fit the mold. It seems to me that this defense would work even better with at least one lane clogger in the middle. Besides look at the sack totals for Bills DTs over the last few years, the most sacks came when we had probably the largest group of DTs in the NFL (per CBS sportsline)........... 2006 Tripplett-2.5 K. Williams-0 J. McCargo-0 T. "Big kitty" Anderson-0 Total-2.5 2005 Sam Adams-3 Tim Anderson-1 Justin Bannan-1.5 Total-5.5 2004 Pat Williams-2.5 Sam Adams-5 Ron Edwards-4 Total-11.5 Don't know how much it means...... just found it interesting, I guess. interesting but don't forget mcargo missed half a year and williams is a rookie, .....well anderson just sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I know sacks don't sum up a DTs ability to rush the passer, they're are other stats (pressures, huries, knock downs etc.) but its kind of interesting to look at sack totals. I for one, think this Defense would work pretty damn good with a guy like Pat Williams manning the nose even though he doesn't fit the mold. It seems to me that this defense would work even better with at least one lane clogger in the middle. Besides look at the sack totals for Bills DTs over the last few years, the most sacks came when we had probably the largest group of DTs in the NFL (per CBS sportsline)........... 2006 Tripplett-2.5 K. Williams-0 J. McCargo-0 T. "Big kitty" Anderson-0 Total-2.5 2005 Sam Adams-3 Tim Anderson-1 Justin Bannan-1.5 Total-5.5 2004 Pat Williams-2.5 Sam Adams-5 Ron Edwards-4 Total-11.5 Don't know how much it means...... just found it interesting, I guess. I say it means that the talent at DT in 2004 was much better than in 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 interesting but don't forget mcargo missed half a year and williams is a rookie, .....well anderson just sucks Very true and those are valid points but Sam Adams didn't play half of the year in 2005. Still haven't figured out why though. And he and Meathead's fued started because he WANTED to rush the QB more instead of sitting back and clogging the middle. I know he was let go for salary cap reasons but seems like he would have had provided some help in last years D-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 I say it means that the talent at DT in 2004 was much better than in 2006. I agree, but my point is that I think any Tampa 2 can be adjusted to have 1 pure NT and still be very effective, if not more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Ron Edwards was always one of my favorite players. He has bursts of greatness and could explode in pass rushing. His only problem was staying healthy. I think he would have been an ideal guy in the tampa-2. Same with Sam Adams--explosively quick--he's probably another good Tampa 2 pass-rushing DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Ron Edwards was always one of my favorite players. He has bursts of greatness and could explode in pass rushing. His only problem was staying healthy. I think he would have been an ideal guy in the tampa-2. Same with Sam Adams--explosively quick--he's probably another good Tampa 2 pass-rushing DT. He was my favorite player only when we played the Phins, he was a man on mission against them. He would always come up with a big play, the problem is that he was always banged up. I don't know what kind of year he had with the Chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Could someone explain why the DT's in a "Tampa 2" have to be super quick? I just don't understand. I hear of teams getting rid of guys that don't "fit the scheme", so I believe it. I just don't understand why. It seems like a guy who clogs up the middle would still be effective. PaidtheBills, The DTs have to be quick (and yet powerful) to ensure that when they are in pursuit (either run or pass) they can get to the ball-carrier quickly and create the complete swarm effect the T2 calls for. Also, in a passing situation, they'll collapse the middle of the pocket quicker, forcing the QB to make a bad throw, go outside of the pocket where the ends should be enroute, or take the sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Could someone explain why the DT's in a "Tampa 2" have to be super quick? I just don't understand. I hear of teams getting rid of guys that don't "fit the scheme", so I believe it. I just don't understand why. It seems like a guy who clogs up the middle would still be effective. Because in an ideal cover 2 defense you want to blitz as rarely as possible if not never at all. Relying solely on your defensive line to generate a pass rush leaving your back 7 in zone coverage. It's a great defense if you have the defensive line to pull it off. Forcing teams to be patient limiting their big play capibility, increasing the likelihood of forcing turnovers.Via your pass rush or simply, the opposing qb being impatient with the football. The reason I like it is because it almost forces you to make your dline a high draft priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Git'er Done Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 PaidtheBills,The DTs have to be quick (and yet powerful) to ensure that when they are in pursuit (either run or pass) they can get to the ball-carrier quickly and create the complete swarm effect the T2 calls for. Also, in a passing situation, they'll collapse the middle of the pocket quicker, forcing the QB to make a bad throw, go outside of the pocket where the ends should be enroute, or take the sack. Thanks for answering. I understand the concept of making the QB make quicker decisions, but that sounds like we need 4 defensive ends. Which is what we seem to have. It seems to be vunerable to the run, yet both Super Bowl teams use it. The Bills gotta get bigger up the middle, regardless of the scheme, even if it's just some reserve/situational guy to bring out against the tough running teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 He was my favorite player only when we played the Phins, he was a man on mission against them. He would always come up with a big play, the problem is that he was always banged up. I don't know what kind of year he had with the Chiefs. I checked his stats during the season and it looked like either he wasn't playing much or was injured again. I don't know how he ended up. I would have liked to have kept him and Justin Bannan (who was integral to our KR wedge) over Tim Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBilliever Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 what about tackles for loss and you forgot Anthony Hargrove, he played DT and has a sack or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I know sacks don't sum up a DTs ability to rush the passer, they're are other stats (pressures, huries, knock downs etc.) but its kind of interesting to look at sack totals. I for one, think this Defense would work pretty damn good with a guy like Pat Williams manning the nose even though he doesn't fit the mold. It seems to me that this defense would work even better with at least one lane clogger in the middle. Besides look at the sack totals for Bills DTs over the last few years, the most sacks came when we had probably the largest group of DTs in the NFL (per CBS sportsline)........... 2006 Tripplett-2.5 K. Williams-0 J. McCargo-0 T. "Big kitty" Anderson-0 Total-2.5 2005 Sam Adams-3 Tim Anderson-1 Justin Bannan-1.5 Total-5.5 2004 Pat Williams-2.5 Sam Adams-5 Ron Edwards-4 Total-11.5 Don't know how much it means...... just found it interesting, I guess. Excellent post. While I think our defense does a good job overall--especially against the pass--I just don't understand why we think we're maximizing value from the DT position. As you've pointed out, our DTs aren't getting sacks. They're not tying up blockers as they did in days past. It's not like we're doing a great (or even adequate) job at stopping the run. Precisely why is it that we shouldn't have Pat Williams/Sam Adams/Ted Washington-style DTs instead? I just don't see what we're getting from DT now that we wouldn't have by going after wall-of-meat style players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Could someone explain why the DT's in a "Tampa 2" have to be super quick? I just don't understand. I hear of teams getting rid of guys that don't "fit the scheme", so I believe it. I just don't understand why. It seems like a guy who clogs up the middle would still be effective. In the cover-2, the two DT positions are extremely different. The 3-tech, who lines up on the outside shoulder of the guard, is supposed to be extremely fast, and a pass rusher. The other DT is supposed to be more of a NT, typing up space and being a run stopper. I don't think that we have a real NT at this point, and thats our biggest falacy on run-D. I'm hoping McCargo can fill that role, but I'm not convinced. One of the biggest parts of the cover-2 is forcing QBs to be patient with your pass defense, but the 3-tech and the DEs are supposed to force throws before they can pick the D apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 In the cover-2, the two DT positions are extremely different. The 3-tech, who lines up on the outside shoulder of the guard, is supposed to be extremely fast, and a pass rusher. The other DT is supposed to be more of a NT, typing up space and being a run stopper. I don't think that we have a real NT at this point, and thats our biggest falacy on run-D. I'm hoping McCargo can fill that role, but I'm not convinced. One of the biggest parts of the cover-2 is forcing QBs to be patient with your pass defense, but the 3-tech and the DEs are supposed to force throws before they can pick the D apart. Are you saying you hope McCargo should switch positions? Because right now, he's in the fast pass rusher role behind Larry Triplett, with Kyle Williams and Tim Anderson our two run stopping DTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 In a way, yeah. I'm hoping McCargo can put on some weight and fill the NT role. We've got Trips and McCargo both competing for that role, and we really have no one at NT. It showed in our run D this past year. Williams was a good stop gap, but still, I'd like more competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 This is why I think Okoye should be our pick this year in the first round.... We need guys who are are not fat but can still play the run well...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven in MD Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 The real question is do you have a system that you find guys who can play it....or do you take the guys you have an build a system around their strengths? I think Greggos biggest weakness is he has a system and forces players to play it.....I like Wade Phillips who takes the players he has and develops a system for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 In a way, yeah. I'm hoping McCargo can put on some weight and fill the NT role. We've got Trips and McCargo both competing for that role, and we really have no one at NT. It showed in our run D this past year. Williams was a good stop gap, but still, I'd like more competition. I can see your point. But then you're left with only Triplett at the speed DT position. Triplett was a backup in Indy for a reason. What's more, Indy's defense looks better without him than it did with him. I'd be thrilled if a McCargo improvement led Triplett to spend plenty of time on the bench. If you leave McCargo where he is, you pretty much have to replace Tim Anderson though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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