Tipster19 Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 He's now a UFA. He does have blazing speed with big play ability. Playing opposite Evans and/or in the mix with Price might be a interesting idea. This thought does make me wonder about the status of our O-Line. Will we improve this unit more? More importantly, how good is our O-Line? Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 He's now a UFA. He does have blazing speed with big play ability. Playing opposite Evans and/or in the mix with Price might be a interesting idea. This thought does make me wonder about the status of our O-Line. Will we improve this unit more? More importantly, how good is our O-Line? Just asking. Another malcontent WR who hasn't shown much if anything in terms of production in this league. I'll pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Another malcontent WR who hasn't shown much if anything in terms of production in this league. I'll pass. They say Vick is a coach killer, but I think more precisely he is a WR killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Another malcontent WR who hasn't shown much if anything in terms of production in this league. I'll pass. Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 good not great speed- nice height but not a huge redzone threat- not super tough over the middle- they worried about his durablity but he hasn't missed many games- better than Peerless but still doesn't give the Bills that super-tough receiver to work the middle, underneath, and redzone- Bills either need that super physical WR or better receiving at TE and RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBilliever Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Lelie has a very, very bad attitude, I don't think that Marv would let him on the team. He's great, he's one of my favorite recievers ever since he played in Denver, and I would like to see him play in red and blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Indablanc Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Lelie has a very, very bad attitude, I don't think that Marv would let him on the team. He's great, he's one of my favorite recievers ever since he played in Denver, and I would like to see him play in red and blue. I agree but then again I don't. Hey!!!! Who broke all of my Prozacs in half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBilliever Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I agree but then again I don't. Hey!!!! Who broke all of my Prozacs in half? Cocaines a hell of a drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 good not great speed- nice height but not a huge redzone threat- not super tough over the middle- they worried about his durablity but he hasn't missed many games- better than Peerless but still doesn't give the Bills that super-tough receiver to work the middle, underneath, and redzone- Bills either need that super physical WR or better receiving at TE and RB. Having not watched Leile I am not sure what you mean here. He certainly has missed fewer games than PP (he only missed 1 game in his 6 seasons) but actually Peerless has played in the entire 16 games in 7 of his 8 seasons. He only played in 7 games in his lost year with Dallas after he failed utterly in his attempt to become the Falcons #1 (he and we learned through his awful play there that while he can be extremely productive as the #2 to a stud WR, he simply did not perform with Vick as QB in front of his hometown crowd after TD took Arthur Blank at AT for a 1st round choice after Blank essentially guranteed AT fans he would get PP as an FA and TD said thank you very much and tagged PP). However, durability and the ability to be able to show up and start games is one of the advantages PP brought with him when he came back to Buffalo and he was able to do that at least for us in 06 when he once again played all 16 and started 15 except one where the Bills decided to go with Reed as the starter. Certainly from watching the games I saw no sense of PP being a weenie as it seemed like a waste of speed which outside observers like the B-News Wilson still says he has as Fairchild used him as a possession receiver and ran him on short routes as seen with his very small ypc. Certainly on specific plays like against MN where he showed he retained some RAC ability when he caught a pass on his knees but was able to get to his feet and score a TD pr one of his too few TDs when he caught a pass with 9 seconds left against Houston and got his feet down for the winning TD, he has shown some ability but it was never used consistently which is on him in part since he did not play so well he demanded the ball, but some of this was on Fairchild and how he was used. Still he seemed more than willing to catch short yardage passes in traffic as indicated by his ypc but racking up 49 catches as our #2. If he had developed a reputation for the droppsies as Reed did in his second season then perhaps one could reasonably fault him for a lack of concentration shown by some fearful WRs but there is no statistical indication of this nor can I remember specific plays where this was the case, though it would be great if you could site those specific plays even with the game it occured in (though citing the clock time would help folks remember it or find it on tapes we have). Observers who have shown good football knowledge in previous cases have accused him of rounding off routes, but I am not sure how one does this without knowing what route was called and how it is expected to be run in a particular situation by the Bills. PP did get a reputation among some for being a weenie when he gave up several fumbles one year, but I think even this accusation is a superficial reading of the stats as in the games they actually seem to happen when PP foolishly (IMHO) actually showed some ballsiness struggling for an extra yard or two and with a tackler hanging on to his ankle a second defender tagged this stationary target and he coughed up the ball, I actually wished he was more of a weenie and had simply gone down with the first hit. However, some overread weakness on his part into this stat. Perhaps that where your observation is based because I saw little in the games or in the stats this year to support this accusation. PP had a disappointing year in my opinion compared to his last effort as our #2 (being worse than 94 catches is not hard actually) but even though it is quite normal to get slower as one gets older, PP demonstrated with a couple of big yardage catches he made in pre-season that he is faster than many DBs and I was hoping for more this regular season, but in addition to faulting PP for not producing results which were at least what we hoped for, if there is blame to be cast, I would question how Fairchild used him because he seemed to do what he was asked to do for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Lelie has a very, very bad attitude, I don't think that Marv would let him on the team. He's great, he's one of my favorite recievers ever since he played in Denver, and I would like to see him play in red and blue. I wouldn't say he's great but feel he'd be an upgrade to Peerless as look at their numbers last year they both averaged about the same yards per game. Of course Lelie has a bigger upside and offers more size then Price so to me he's an obvious guy to go after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 If your telling me that Peerless price's Fullbackesk receiving production is Fairchild's fault for not making use of Peerless's talents - I'll buy it- but something has to change cause 402 yards receiving from your #2 WR just isn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 I think that if yo0u past the surface, there might more to Lelie than what meets the eye. I see him as a viable WR that is a huge upgrade over our current 3rd, 4th and 5th WR. The issues in Denver might be overblown. Shanahan is a hardass and once that you are on the wrong side of him you stay there. I will say that Lelie was very influential in pulling the WRs together in Atlanta and had a great attitude while he was there. Face it, Atlanta has their own share of problems and it wouldn't be accurate to blame it on Lelie or put him under that umbrella of responsibility. I see him as a great 2nd WR and Price in the slot. Lelie could and would stretch the defense and allow Evans to strut his stuff. Evans is the kind of WR who can take a short pass and turn it into a long gain. I don't think that we'll have anything to debate anyways. It looks like Lelie is somehow connected to a San Fran coach. He played in Hawaii in his college days and that might be the connection. The 49'ers are really in need of a big play WR, especially after the off field problem they had with Bryant this past season. Lelie would be a great fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 good not great speed- nice height but not a huge redzone threat- not super tough over the middle- they worried about his durablity but he hasn't missed many games- better than Peerless but still doesn't give the Bills that super-tough receiver to work the middle, underneath, and redzone- Bills either need that super physical WR or better receiving at TE and RB. exactamundo! out of all those i'll take the "super physical WR" ... how about USC's Jarrett? he looks like everything that other physical USC WR keyshawn said he was and isn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 If your telling me that Peerless price's Fullbackesk receiving production is Fairchild's fault for not making use of Peerless's talents - I'll buy it- but something has to change cause 402 yards receiving from your #2 WR just isn't good enough. Granted and I think you are correct about the yardage we should be getting from our #2 but I am actually somewhat surprised by the free-ride Fairchild seems to be getting on TSW. I assume it was because first JP was the whipping boy with his obviously stinky performances, but then he turned it around statistically and then WM with his bizarre comments like baby-Mommas (which the paternity suits show he was acting on his words though this has little to do with on the field performance) and then he chose to commentate on Bills location issues and some folks seem to give inordinate attention to his crack financial and management advice and in all this the offensive scheme escaped much scrutiny. All in all Fairchild is a rookie OC and the Os performance was definitely limited by some stinky OL performance initially and the TEs needing time to get their act together and his FB simply not performing like a good player. Yet, in the end, he is responsible in a large part for the players he chooses or does not seek to replace amd even with the tools he inherits or has, it is his job to use their skills no matter how flawed they are to the best effect he can. I simply think Fairchild has left us with a bunch of unanswered questions and unfilled ambitions for offensive production which go beyond the limitations of his players and raise questions as to whether he got the highest and best use of them. specifically: 1. JP showed he is a very talented athlete and his ability to use his feet to buy extra time and his ability to keep looking downfield and get the ball off while scrambling (a skill he has long had and showed in college as he ran for his life behind their turnstile OL and created well enogh to get a first round choice. Jauron reined in the O in the first half of the season while JP learned the game and has he worked through some issue like locking on a receiver he began to show what he could do so folks feel pretty good about him now, but job 1 for Fairchild next year is going to be help JP perform at even a higher level in his 4th year. JP is far from perfect as we saw him throw some bad INTs in the last game when he was pressing for a scorem but the jury us still out not as much on JP but on Fairchild next year. 2. Folks are obviously disappointed to the level of being pissed at WM, and it strikes me as foolish for folks to want to cut him or trade him for next to nothing in terms of a first day draft pick when the Bills are in the drivers seat with him contractually. He is no position to hold out and would only hurt his ability to get the big buck contract he want if in fact he held out this off-season when his production has gone down from his 1st to his 2nd and then from his second to his third season, The Bills simply need to stay the course and if he happens to use the motivation of being in his FA season to have a great year, good for us and simply show him the money or tag and trade him if we want. However, the big issue for those of us more concerned about the field than sleeping with WM or his fiscal advice was shown in the first play against the Ravens where WM caught a pass and ran for roughly a gain of 20+ yards. This play was called back on an illegal shift by us seemingly unrelated to the gain but the odd thing is Fairchild seemed to allow the great Ravens D to dictate our offense and we never made much use of WM as a runner much less a pass catcher. Fairchild simply needs to make more use of the RB as a receiver in his O if he is ever gonna replicate the offensive results of the high-flying Rams offense where he last learned offensive trade. WM showed some good stuff as a receiver in limited college use and he has shown the same possibilities in his limited use as a receiver for the Bills. I do not expect WM to be the next Marshall Faulk but Fairchild simply needs to show more in this regard. 3. His use (or more accurately non-use) of the receivers was the thing which most annoyed me. The JP/Evans chemistry is real and I praise the two of them for their achievements. However, PP allegedly still has some speed (according to outside observers and we actually saw some of this last pre-season), Parrish pulled off some great TDs last season (sporadically) and actually showed a couple of times he can take a hard hit and bounce back up (as seen in the Ravens game) and that his injury of his rookie year has not been repeated, in addition, not only has Reed overcome his droppsie problem of his sophomore year, but he even has showed some of his old RB chops as he bulled through the D for a TD on one late season play. However, despite some very good episodes, Fairchild's O: A. cast PP as a possession receiver and he did OK with 49 catches and some nice sideline and endzone work, but we never used his speed unless this is part of the reason why Evans ended up with one-on-ones he turned into long TDs several times. B. Parrish just seemed to disappear as a WR at times which was frustrating after seeing TDs by him such as one against the Jets where he caught a short slant pass and just outran all chasing defenders to the endzone. Given some good statistical success we had on first drives one would think the Bills and Fairchild could dictate the game a little more. C. I was impressed with Reed's work but I think the Bills should resist temptation which saw them start him as our #2 WR once (he had his chance at this and developed the droppsies and instead simply use him as a #4 (I would be happy to see this alot with a one man backfield being our standard set even on 1st downs and use Reed's RAC ability. However, these are not just simply complaints that these three WRs should play better or should be replaced, my sense is that they would produce more if what they do best were employed more and also if Faurchild did some things to draw attention elsewhere and freed these players up, in particular if we utilized the RB (be it WM or A-Train) in pass routes it would put more pressure on those covering the WRs. 4. A key to this obviously is that if the OL cannot block then there will not be time for a pass oriented game. I understand this and though I saw little sign of the Bills even attempting this in the early stages to test the blockers, they seem to have already decided as the season began on the road not to try to dictate play with a pass attack. Being on the road early, a concern about the OL which developed in camp, and the reined in offense used to break JP in may have all been factors leading to their controlled O and once they went to that path changing up was something they never implemented. Still next season is a new year and with an improved blocking since the housecleaning and reordering at the break, with the addition of an OL player or 2 through FA and the draft they really could use a more offensive offensive scheme. 5. Obe significant difference in how a Bills O might differ from the high-flying St. Louis model might be greater use of the TE. Some good work by Royal after he finally came around (except for some lousy footwork in the endzone on a TD which might have been) holds out the possibility along with the emergence of Cieslak for some more TE work. However, it is not hard to do better at TE than the Rams as historically the TEs on their roster have only logged a catch or 2 for the entire season. It could well be that the TE position is simply an extra blocker in the SL model and that is why they do not catch the ball so use of the TE in more pass oriented attack may not be possible This does raise the question of how possible it is for us to use a pass happy model like the Rams O with our blocking limitations and are there enough ball to go around. I think we can do this since we have a far more mobile QN with JP than the Rams have had and in addition, given the bad play we have had at FB I do not feel we are losing much if we simply eliminate the FB from our scheme in favor of a 3rd reciever or simply an empty backfield set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Lelie is Evans...minus testicles and hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Long Beach Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Lelie is Evans...minus testicles and hands. I'm not sure he's even that good. Bad hands. Inconsistant concentration. Route running suspect. Gets pouty if he doesn't get thrown the ball, or enough respect (which he hasn't earned). On the good side he's pretty fast. Pretty athletic. But really hasn't lived up to his potential. Drafted around the same draft position as Lee Evens and IMO not really comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Another malcontent WR who hasn't shown much if anything in terms of production in this league. I'll pass. And a guy who wants #1 WR type money....the reason he quit in Denver.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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