For cryin out loud, the Bills are NOT doomed!

[The_Real]

I've listened to all of the Doom and Gloomers talk crap about how the Bills are 'doomed' and it has gotten me to research the situation. The more I look the more I find information that supports the fact that the Bills can and will get financial support. First, the current commissioner has made it clear that even if the owners do agree to a revenue sharing plan that doesn't specifically support the Bills, he personally will make sure that the financial viability of the franchise is not in question.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...ll_x.htm?csp=34

 

Further, in an article that I posted in a previous thread, it is suggested that the television contract pays the players salaries.

 

http://football.calsci.com/SalaryCap.html

 

"About 2/3 of the NFL's money comes from the TV deal. The players get about 2/3 of team revenue. So, more or less, the TV contract goes to pay the players. These contracts are typically for about 5 years, and every time they are renegotiated the price goes up. So do player's salaries.

 

The money from the TV contract is share and share alike - the Redskins, Cowboys, Bills, and Packers get identical checks. This money is key to the success of the smaller franchises. Without the TV contract money, there is simply no way on earth that Green Bay could ever field a competitive team. "

 

 

I know and understand the point about the escalating salary cap and about other teams being able to spend more (Redskins, Giants, etc.) because of signing bonuses. Yet, the people here who are pretending that the league isn't aware or doesn't care are simply misguided. Buffalo fans always see the cup half empty and for that it gets tiring.

 

 

The Bills are going to be in Buffalo. Until plans are made that say the Community can't, and in concrete, can't support this team, I'm not buying. Until Ralph dies and the league turns their back, I'm going to believe what Goodell says about the future of the franchise.

 

 

We aren't dead in the water people. Remember that.

 

 

The Real

 

PS Even this year, a bad year by all standards, we were still only about 100 off from the league wide average in attendance for the year. Below is a quote from the first article.

 

'Despite the drop off in attendance, the Bills' season average of 67,646 was about 100 short of the league-wide average'

[MadBuffaloDisease]

With blackouts like this year, the team IS dead. And the issue isn't what happens while Ralph is alive so much; it's what happens after he's gone, the team is sold for $800M, and the new owner can't justify keeping the team in an area that can't support even league-average ticket, parking, and concessions prices, while a place like San Antonio can.

[SDS]

With blackouts like this year, the team IS dead. And the issue isn't what happens while Ralph is alive so much; it's what happens after he's gone, the team is sold for $800M, and the new owner can't justify keeping the team in an area that can't support even league-average ticket, parking, and concessions prices, while a place like San Antonio can.

 

well, that settles it - Ralph must live on!

[ganesh]

With blackouts like this year, the team IS dead. And the issue isn't what happens while Ralph is alive so much; it's what happens after he's gone, the team is sold for $800M, and the new owner can't justify keeping the team in an area that can't support even league-average ticket, parking, and concessions prices, while a place like San Antonio can.

 

Oh really! The last I remember, San Antonio couldn't sell out the New Orlean Saints home games.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

That's because they were the New Orleans Saints' games!

[AgentZero]

That's because they were the New Orleans Saints' games!

 

Ah so it seems your mind is made up...the bills ARE doomed once Ralph kicks, and you are thoroughly convinced San Antonio can and will support a franchise long-term, even though they couldn't sell out a few Saints games (already pointed out) and despite the fact that the city is located in a football saturated state with big bad D commanding most of the fanbase. U got inside information to back those convictions up? Or do you just predict the future nostradamus?

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Where did I say that my mind is made-up? I said that IF the next owner of the Bills (seeing as how Ralph's family doesn't want the team) finds a suitable place to move, like SA, he'll probably do it, especially if fans keep staying away.

[keepthefaith]

well, that settles it - Ralph must live on!

 

Maybe a "weekend at Bernie's" reality show?

[BillsGuyInMalta]

Awwww, the only reason I came back was so that I could join in the panic! Now we arent doomed?

 

This blows...I'm going to Nam'.

[Vinny4sum]

With blackouts like this year, the team IS dead. And the issue isn't what happens while Ralph is alive so much; it's what happens after he's gone, the team is sold for $800M, and the new owner can't justify keeping the team in an area that can't support even league-average ticket, parking, and concessions prices, while a place like San Antonio can.

 

 

The Bills can avoid the blackout situation by eliminating 7,000 seats making capacity 67,000. Get rid of the upper level corners and the top of the upper level.

 

Ralph can keep the revenue per game the same by simply increasing ticket prices $5 per seat. ( That will cost me $30 per game)

Here is the math:

 

7000 less seats @$40 per = 280,000 Tickets in this area may be less.

2333 less cars parked ( I figured 3 per car) = 34,995 This assumes all 2333 would have parked in a Bills lot.

Total direct lost revenue = 314,995

Added revenue from $5 increase for 67,000 = 335,000 This could also come from increases to luxury prices/license

Added revenue = 20,005 helps for lost concession sales

 

Also, with a 10% reduction in patrons the Bills should be able to reduce some game day employees ( Not at the ticket windows)

 

Now if they have a problem selling the 67,000 we have a problem.

[buffalobillsfootball]

Where did I say that my mind is made-up? I said that IF the next owner of the Bills (seeing as how Ralph's family doesn't want the team) finds a suitable place to move, like SA, he'll probably do it, especially if fans keep staying away.

 

 

More drama, please - MORE - you are so TYPICAL BUFFALO I can't stand it!

 

Please submit proof - link- anyther other that HEARSAY - that Ralph's family doesn't want the team.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[apuszczalowski]

More drama, please - MORE - you are so TYPICAL BUFFALO I can't stand it!

 

Please submit proof - link- anyther other that HEARSAY - that Ralph's family doesn't want the team.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Actually you don't know what your talking about. Ralphs wife and Daughter have said they do not want to keep the team when he passes on.

 

Its been known for a while

 

People can keep burrying their heads in the sand thinking everything is ok and this team will live in buffalo forever, but there are some here living in reality that know things will need to be done to keep this team here and it won't be easy

[RuntheDamnBall]

The Bills can avoid the blackout situation by eliminating 7,000 seats making capacity 67,000. Get rid of the upper level corners and the top of the upper level.

 

Ralph can keep the revenue per game the same by simply increasing ticket prices $5 per seat. ( That will cost me $30 per game)

Here is the math:

 

7000 less seats @$40 per = 280,000 Tickets in this area may be less.

2333 less cars parked ( I figured 3 per car) = 34,995 This assumes all 2333 would have parked in a Bills lot.

Total direct lost revenue = 314,995

Added revenue from $5 increase for 67,000 = 335,000 This could also come from increases to luxury prices/license

Added revenue = 20,005 helps for lost concession sales

 

Also, with a 10% reduction in patrons the Bills should be able to reduce some game day employees ( Not at the ticket windows)

 

Now if they have a problem selling the 67,000 we have a problem.

This is not a bad idea at all, and if other teams can get state money to build whole new stadiums, I would see no problem in requesting a much smaller sum of state funds to help protect NYS' only team. This money could be used to improve bathrooms, reduce seats and thereby increase some space/comfort, and better the gameday experience. I think also the idea of making the Bills a competitive ticket -- i.e. one that is more in demand due to less supply -- doesn't hurt one bit.

 

A better product on the field, which appears to be on the horizon, also might help the case.

[buffalobillsfootball]

Actually you don't know what your talking about. Ralphs wife and Daughter have said they do not want to keep the team when he passes on.

 

Its been known for a while

 

People can keep burrying their heads in the sand thinking everything is ok and this team will live in buffalo forever, but there are some here living in reality that know things will need to be done to keep this team here and it won't be easy

 

 

No sand; just really good connections.

[Sanners]

With blackouts like this year, the team IS dead. And the issue isn't what happens while Ralph is alive so much; it's what happens after he's gone, the team is sold for $800M, and the new owner can't justify keeping the team in an area that can't support even league-average ticket, parking, and concessions prices, while a place like San Antonio can.

 

Dude, have you been to San Antonio? There is no way that an owner in that town will be able to support an NFL franchise. Their day was 10 years ago, due to the cost of a franchise. The Bills are in good shape.

 

Their stadium is inadequate, and they can't generate the luxury box revenue that Buffalo can. This is all posturing by Ralph. It is all New York politics.

 

By the way, it isn't the end of the world if the Bills leave Buffalo. Maybe this city needs something to reinvent itself.

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

well, that settles it - Ralph must live on!

 

We all wish that was so.

[Pyrite Gal]

Actually you don't know what your talking about. Ralphs wife and Daughter have said they do not want to keep the team when he passes on.

 

Its been known for a while

 

People can keep burrying their heads in the sand thinking everything is ok and this team will live in buffalo forever, but there are some here living in reality that know things will need to be done to keep this team here and it won't be easy

 

First, I really don't know anyone who thinks that everything is OK and even if some very few folks do it does not matter because even those who believe/hope that everything will work out with the Bills staying in Buffalo are still very concerned that bad things may happen when Ralph dies.

 

Merely stating you will fight for the Bills to remain here and also that you think its a fight that we can win neither means you think everything is OK and certainly does not mean one is burying your head in the sand.

 

Second, on the face of it, there would appear to be several ways the Bills could remain here in WNY even assuming that Ralph's family does not want the team.

 

A. No one (be it you, me, or the media) has any clue whatsoever what provisions Ralph has left in his will for distribution of his assets, or within the Bills corporate agreements for disposal of the team. There are several methods he could pursue which actually would lock the team into residence in Buffalo and cushion his heir from a tax bite which forces sell of the team to the highest bidder if he has access to good legal minds.

 

Contractual obligations which lock the Bills in place and certainly are not anything Ralph and his family have talked about doing, but then if you had why talk about it. It actually might serve Ralph's families interest for him to put in such language as anything which anchors the team to Buffalo lowers its real cash value and thus lowers any tax assessment owed by Ralph's heirs.

 

B. If he really wanted to be aggressive the team can orchestrate some type of arrangement where the team is left to a corporation providing a Green Bay Packers style ownership framework. Such an arrangement would be complicated and more difficult to pull off in a will than if an owner actually tried to do it, but this does not mean it cannot be done. Some league forces might want to sue to stop an owner from doing this, but such a law suit would be costly for the league not only in terms of legal costs and publicity as the league sues little ol Buffalo and a dead guy for more dollars, but more important the same cudgel which forced the NFL to buy off Cleveland when they threatened to sue was that such publicity heightens the chances that legislative activity in Congress might subject the NFL to loss of the few exemptions from legal restrictions on constraint of trade and monpolisitic practices they do have.

 

C. Ralph is a private owner of a private corporation and though the teams books are more open than ever before thanks to the CBA and the NFL partners the players demanding more transparency to insure owners are not hiding money, there are still a great many secrets Ralph can keep to himself.

 

In essence, neither those who assume the Bills will be here forever, nor those who want assume they are as good as gone when Ralph dies can make this assumption as they have too little information on what Ralph is really doing or thinking.

 

The main things which works in Buffalos favor is that possession is 9/10ths of the law. This is important as shown by the Irsays choosing to pull up the Mayflower vans and leave under cover of night and Art Modell essentially springing a done deal on Cleveland and the public. A live owner can mostly do what he wants and the NFL cannot really stop him, but even a live owner wants to present his move as a fait accompli or even he risks making it hard to pull off.

 

Since Ralph as said the team will not move while he is alive, when he dies the team will be here in Buffalo. At that point with a dead owner, the team will be difficult to move and sale except without the concurrence of local and state courts which pass final judgment on the disposition of wills and estates.

 

Almost certainly ever trusts, estates, or probate judge who gets any case involving judgments about disputes regarding disposition of Ralph's WNY properties will be hard pressed to make rulings which disadvantage the WNY body politic. Likely much of his estate would be tried under MI law where he lives with some adjudication in NYS for such a large WNY based property and with the NFL HQ'ed in NYS, but my guess is that after Ralph is gone that we see the Bills property likely wind up in court for a long time if there is any move to change possession from being in Buffalo to some other legal jurisdisiction.

 

Really the folks with their heads in the sand are those who say a particular change is a done deal because change is very hard to do in our society even for a live owner,

[The_Real]

For those of you who have been here a few years, do you remember when you'd come to TBD and see threads that were laced with one word responses that said DOOMED?

 

DOOMED....

 

 

RETATTA...

 

 

T_R

[The_Real]

Merely stating you will fight for the Bills to remain here and also that you think its a fight that we can win neither means you think everything is OK and certainly does not mean one is burying your head in the sand.

 

A. No one (be it you, me, or the media) has any clue whatsoever what provisions Ralph has left in his will for distribution of his assets, or within the Bills corporate agreements for disposal of the team. There are several methods he could pursue which actually would lock the team into residence in Buffalo and cushion his heir from a tax bite which forces sell of the team to the highest bidder if he has access to good legal minds.

 

Contractual obligations which lock the Bills in place and certainly are not anything Ralph and his family have talked about doing, but then if you had why talk about it. It actually might serve Ralph's families interest for him to put in such language as anything which anchors the team to Buffalo lowers its real cash value and thus lowers any tax assessment owed by Ralph's heirs.

 

B. If he really wanted to be aggressive the team can orchestrate some type of arrangement where the team is left to a corporation providing a Green Bay Packers style ownership framework. Such an arrangement would be complicated and more difficult to pull off in a will than if an owner actually tried to do it, but this does not mean it cannot be done. Some league forces might want to sue to stop an owner from doing this, but such a law suit would be costly for the league not only in terms of legal costs and publicity as the league sues little ol Buffalo and a dead guy for more dollars, but more important the same cudgel which forced the NFL to buy off Cleveland when they threatened to sue was that such publicity heightens the chances that legislative activity in Congress might subject the NFL to loss of the few exemptions from legal restrictions on constraint of trade and monpolisitic practices they do have.

 

C. Ralph is a private owner of a private corporation and though the teams books are more open than ever before thanks to the CBA and the NFL partners the players demanding more transparency to insure owners are not hiding money, there are still a great many secrets Ralph can keep to himself.

 

In essence, neither those who assume the Bills will be here forever, nor those who want assume they are as good as gone when Ralph dies can make this assumption as they have too little information on what Ralph is really doing or thinking.

 

The main things which works in Buffalos favor is that possession is 9/10ths of the law. This is important as shown by the Irsays choosing to pull up the Mayflower vans and leave under cover of night and Art Modell essentially springing a done deal on Cleveland and the public. A live owner can mostly do what he wants and the NFL cannot really stop him, but even a live owner wants to present his move as a fait accompli or even he risks making it hard to pull off.

 

Since Ralph as said the team will not move while he is alive, when he dies the team will be here in Buffalo. At that point with a dead owner, the team will be difficult to move and sale except without the concurrence of local and state courts which pass final judgment on the disposition of wills and estates.

 

Almost certainly ever trusts, estates, or probate judge who gets any case involving judgments about disputes regarding disposition of Ralph's WNY properties will be hard pressed to make rulings which disadvantage the WNY body politic. Likely much of his estate would be tried under MI law where he lives with some adjudication in NYS for such a large WNY based property and with the NFL HQ'ed in NYS, but my guess is that after Ralph is gone that we see the Bills property likely wind up in court for a long time if there is any move to change possession from being in Buffalo to some other legal jurisdisiction.

 

Really the folks with their heads in the sand are those who say a particular change is a done deal because change is very hard to do in our society even for a live owner,

 

Pyrite girl this is the type of post I was talking about. There is nothing factual about your post it's just all heresay. Schumer and the 'commish' are both working on keeping the team here. That's good enough for me. Put a good product on the field and fans will show up, again good enough for me. Any posturing beyond that is simply.... Just that... Posturing

 

T_R

[MadBuffaloDisease]

No sand; just really good connections.

I'm just going by what Ralph publicly stated, i.e. that his daughters aren't interested in owning the team. If you know anything different, please do tell. And make sure to name names.

 

As for SA, why does anyone think they'd have more trouble selling luxury boxes than in Buffalo? I might agree about the stadium, but do they have significantly LESS money than Houston, who built an expensive stadium for the Texans?