Proof that the OL makes the difference

[R. Rich]

You draw your conclusions, I'll draw mine.  I am not saying one sucks and the other doesn't.  But both Johnson and Flutie did well enough to get us in the playoffs. 

 

Collins, where has he ever started again, he is a career backup who started for us.  He was Frank Reich. 

 

Bledsoe, he did well enough, but he takes the sacks.  His biggest issue was coaching and he was mis-used. 

 

Van Pelt, nice guy but career backup/3rd stringer.

830592[/snapback]

 

 

Enough of this crap. Losman is the guy we need to be whining about. If only we got rid of him, we'd contend for the Super Bowl.

[VABills]

Enough of this crap.  Losman is the guy we need to be whining about.  If only we got rid of him, we'd contend for the Super Bowl.

830599[/snapback]

Again that's you conclusion.

 

It's interesting that Green was brought up though. He basically took 6 years to develop before he actually got to start and prove he was good. Just curious, would you keep Jp for 6 years if it takes him that long to develop?

[mead107]

Again that's you conclusion. 

 

It's interesting that Green was brought up though.  He basically took 6 years to develop before he actually got to start and prove he was good.  Just curious, would you keep Jp for 6 years if it takes him that long to develop?

830601[/snapback]

i would give him another 2 years .

[ACor58]

i would give him another 2 years .

830603[/snapback]

 

I don't know mead, 5 years is an awfully long time. If we give him another 2 years, that means we have to bring in another guy that might take 2 to 3 years to develop. That would make for an unbareble playoff drought.

[ganesh]

Actually KC has a pretty bad Oline.  Both tackles basically retired before the start of the year and they are playing two scrubs on the outsides.    There line was just descimated.  Witness what happened to Green the first game.  A smart QB who senses and moves a little can go a long way in making a bad line look good.

830541[/snapback]

But may be they have a good OL scheme where they put the players in good position.....I really doubt McNally has it in him to build this line.

[R. Rich]

Again that's you conclusion. 

 

It's interesting that Green was brought up though.  He basically took 6 years to develop before he actually got to start and prove he was good.  Just curious, would you keep Jp for 6 years if it takes him that long to develop?

830601[/snapback]

 

 

No. Losman needs to get better now. He'd better start blocking, tackling, defending the pass, rushing the passer, and all those other things necessary for him to become a top level quarterback in the NFL.

[VABills]

But may be they have a good OL scheme where they put the players in good position.....I really doubt McNally has it in him to build this line.

830639[/snapback]

But Mcnally is the savior. He's from Buffalo and he helped Munoz become great, therefore he must be great and it's the players. I read it here, so it must be true.

[Dibs]

Never mind the fact he had Wicky Williams in the backfield.

 

Let's put it this way, Gnome....

 

Bills QBs in reverse order since Kelly's retirement:

 

Losman

Bledsoe

Johnson

Flutie

Van Pelt

Collins

 

Is it just a sad coincidence that all these guys sucked or is it that they've had NOTHING to work with OL- and offensive talent-wise?

830581[/snapback]

Actually, Flutie & Bledsoe both made probowls with us. They certainly didn't suck in those two years. IMO the OL has been decent in times past.....2004 was not too bad at all.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

No Greens a good Qb, but if you watched the first game, he got beat up behind that line.  Just look at it, before he got hurt he got hit time and again.

Was finally able to look stuff up. In that game, Green took 3 sacks and Huard took 4. They were also hurried about the same number of times. And Green has benefitted form a great O-line and "skill position" players while Huard is doing the same. I'd LOVE to have Larry Johnson (if only...), Tony Gonzalez, and that O-line, even with the player losses.

[daquixers_is_back]

DAMON HUARD. Here was a guy ran out of Miami on a rail. Look at him now. He may be a pro-bowler at the end of the year. Did he just suddenly wake up one day and decide to be an NFL quarterback? Or is that KC OL the reason why he's been so good?

 

Hrm....

830494[/snapback]

 

I would have agreed with you a few weeks ago ... but lets face it. JP has had some legitimate time to throw the ball the past few weeks. Of course there have been some sacks where he has had no time ... but for the most part he has had time.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I would have agreed with you a few weeks ago ... but lets face it. JP has had some legitimate time to throw the ball the past few weeks. Of course there have been some sacks where he has had no time ... but for the most part he has had time.

He's had time to survey the field and STILL find no one open. Well then the next thing is to say he should be throwing the ball away, but the coaches have told him to stay in the pocket. Let the shackles come off.

[Dibs]

He's had time to survey the field and STILL find no one open.  Well then the next thing is to say he should be throwing the ball away, but the coaches have told him to stay in the pocket.  Let the shackles come off.

831318[/snapback]

He has a 61.3 completion percentage.....which shows that for the most of it he is getting the ball out there & connecting with his receivers. There is no doubt he holds onto the ball a bit too long & has caused a few more sacks than a more experienced QB would but.....his sack numbers are not all that higher than the so-called 'better' QBs who have better lines. If, as Bills fans, we accepted the concept at the start of the season that he would more than likely be learning this season, then we all should expect him to be doing things like that a bit. With a terrible line(so terrible they re-shuffled 3 players in it mid-season), his numbers....both passing(% completion, YPA, TDs, INTs...QBR) & sacks are not that bad. That being said, he obviously still has a long ways to go.

I guess the response to this post will be typical....."JP will not be good because I know."

[mike1011]

Pats O-line stinks. Out goes Bledsoe, in comes Brady. --> They look good

 

Chicago's Oline stinks. Out goes Orton in comes Grossman --> They look good

 

Chiefs O-line stinks. Out goes Green (injury) in comes Huard --> They NOW look good

 

Jags O-line stinks. Out goes Leftwich in comes Gerrard --> They looks good.

 

The Chiefs O-line looked terrible. Difference? Huard plays better, quicker and the defense has to adjust. Look at how dumb some of the responses are when you ask if JP should block, be the RB, etc. when in fact the RB and the O-line would look better if the QB was better.

 

If the defense blitzes 7 guys on a 5 man O-line does the O-line automatically stink if they can't block everyone? Nope. When that QB gets rid of the ball quickly to burn the D then all of a sudden the O-line looks good because the D respects such talent. Without it the pressure is coming and you better think quickly.

 

Huard looks good for the reason why Bulger looks good. Cerebral QBs with mediocre arms improve their game on the bench. They watch, fill in, play some games as a back-up, and get good around 28. Gerrard looks ok and he's been a back-up for a long time. He's got better. It's just that simple. Players can develop from thinking on the bench. McNair, Brady, Young et al. are proof.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

He has a 61.3 completion percentage.....which shows that for the most of it he is getting the ball out there & connecting with his receivers.  There is no doubt he holds onto the ball a bit too long & has caused a few more sacks than a more experienced QB would but.....his sack numbers are not all that higher than the so-called 'better' QBs who have better lines.  If, as Bills fans, we accepted the concept at the start of the season that he would more than likely be learning this season, then we all should expect him to be doing things like that a bit.  With a terrible line(so terrible they re-shuffled 3 players in it mid-season), his numbers....both passing(% completion, YPA, TDs, INTs...QBR) & sacks are not that bad.  That being said, he obviously still has a long ways to go.

I guess the response to this post will be typical....."JP will not be good because I know."

Don't know if you got the point I was trying to make, but in the games I've watched, I've heard the announcers say "and there was no one open" on more than a few plays every game. That along with being told by the coaches to stay in the pocket make him a sitting duck without taking an intentional grounding call or throwing the ball up for grabs. I think they need to let him go out there and move around.

[Dibs]

Don't know if you got the point I was trying to make, but in the games I've watched, I've heard the announcers say "and there was no one open" on more than a few plays every game.  That along with being told by the coaches to stay in the pocket make him a sitting duck without taking an intentional grounding call or throwing the ball up for grabs.  I think they need to let him go out there and move around.

831343[/snapback]

Cool....just add my point to yours then.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Pats O-line stinks. Out goes Bledsoe, in comes Brady. --> They look good

 

Chicago's Oline stinks. Out goes Orton in comes Grossman --> They look good

 

Chiefs O-line stinks. Out goes Green (injury) in comes Huard --> They NOW look good

 

Jags O-line stinks. Out goes Leftwich in comes Gerrard --> They looks good.

 

The Chiefs O-line looked terrible. Difference? Huard plays better, quicker and the defense has to adjust. Look at how dumb some of the responses are when you ask if JP should block, be the RB, etc. when in fact the RB and the O-line would look better if the QB was better.

 

If the defense blitzes 7 guys on a 5 man O-line does the O-line automatically stink if they can't block everyone? Nope. When that QB gets rid of the ball quickly to burn the D then all of a sudden the O-line looks good because the D respects such talent. Without it the pressure is coming and you better think quickly.

 

Huard looks good for the reason why Bulger looks good. Cerebral QBs with mediocre arms improve their game on the bench. They watch, fill in, play some games as a back-up, and get good around 28. Gerrard looks ok and he's been a back-up for a long time. He's got better. It's just that simple. Players can develop from thinking on the bench. McNair, Brady, Young et al. are proof.

Well that's the simple version. Except that McNair and Young took well over 3 years as either backups or starters to become great players, while Brady took as many sacks in 2001 as Bledsoe did in 2000 (and as HD unwittingly proved, ANYONE could have won that Pgh playoff game that year, and probably the SB as well). And those guys had been in the same system for more than a year.

[Dibs]

Pats O-line stinks. Out goes Bledsoe, in comes Brady. --> They look good

 

Chicago's Oline stinks. Out goes Orton in comes Grossman --> They look good

 

Chiefs O-line stinks. Out goes Green (injury) in comes Huard --> They NOW look good

 

Jags O-line stinks. Out goes Leftwich in comes Gerrard --> They looks good.

 

The Chiefs O-line looked terrible. Difference? Huard plays better, quicker and the defense has to adjust. Look at how dumb some of the responses are when you ask if JP should block, be the RB, etc. when in fact the RB and the O-line would look better if the QB was better.

 

If the defense blitzes 7 guys on a 5 man O-line does the O-line automatically stink if they can't block everyone? Nope. When that QB gets rid of the ball quickly to burn the D then all of a sudden the O-line looks good because the D respects such talent. Without it the pressure is coming and you better think quickly.

 

Huard looks good for the reason why Bulger looks good. Cerebral QBs with mediocre arms improve their game on the bench. They watch, fill in, play some games as a back-up, and get good around 28. Gerrard looks ok and he's been a back-up for a long time. He's got better. It's just that simple. Players can develop from thinking on the bench. McNair, Brady, Young et al. are proof.

831341[/snapback]

NEs OL was on the improve having drafted Woody, Klemm & Light....& it was not considered good after Bledsoe at all....it was still considered 'not good'. Bledsoe got sacked 45 times in 2000, Brady got sacked 41 times in 2 less games in 2001.

 

Chicago had a good line last year also.....they were 10th in sacks allowed(with Orton) & their running game was #8 in the league with the 7th best YPA.

 

What are you talking about re: the Chiefs?

Green was knocked out in the 1st game. Huard actually attempted more passes than him in that game.....I think you are making this up as you go along.

On top of that the Chiefs interior of their OL is still A+ grade.....best in the league(?)

 

The Jags??? Leftwich....9 sacks in 6 games. Garrard 3 sacks in 2 games.

With Leftwich in the Jags had scores of 41 & 30....Taylor has been on fire the last 4 weeks(2 with Leftwich). Garrard, the OL & Taylor looked awesome against the 32nd ranked D last week.

 

A top QB can make an OL look better than it is. IMO this is certainly a truth.....to a point. The examples you gave however....all of them.....do not support this theory.

[Ray]

It helps to have both but there are many more examples of switching QBs and keeping the lines the same and the second QB doing better--just look at the Bills.

 

Flutie for Johnson. Brady for Bledsoe. Romo for Bledsoe. Harrington for Culpepper this year!

 

JP has been putrid the last 4 games. Quit making apologies for the guy and call a spade a spade. He played well in the first few games then has regressed terribly. That doesn't mean he won't be a good QB but he has been awful. I hate the fact the Bills games are so painful to watch. Let's all hope he starts doing things better.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

It helps to have both but there are many more examples of switching QBs and keeping the lines the same and the second QB doing better--just look at the Bills.

 

Flutie for Johnson.  Brady for Bledsoe.  Romo for Bledsoe.  Harrington for Culpepper this year!   

 

JP has been putrid the last 4 games.  Quit making apologies for the guy and call a spade a spade.  He played well in the first few games then has regressed terribly.  That doesn't mean he won't be a good QB but he has been awful.  I hate the fact the Bills games are so painful to watch.  Let's all hope he starts doing things better.

831405[/snapback]

 

You're right. What was I thinking?

 

I mean, what was JP doing, not holding blocks, not tackling downfield, not catching balls thrown to him? Of COURSE it's all on JP's shoulders this team has sucked.

 

I'm sorry for being so out of touch with reality.

 

[zow2]

That is tough to say since KC lost two starters to retirement. Here is another question? Did the Dallas Cowboys line suddenly get better or does it have something to do with Tony Romo? 93.7 Rating and sacked 6 times in 2 and a half games (Bledsoe 69.2 rating and sacked 16 times in 5 and a half games).

 

The Dallas Offensive line was being blamed for Beldsoe's struggles, but Romo seems to be playing alright behind them.

 

Also, last year, Holcomb was only sacked 17 times on 230 attepmts last year while JP was sacked 26 times on 228 attempts. Was the Bills line playing better for Holcomb than for JP?

830536[/snapback]

 

Exactly. People have a short memory but before Romo the NFL "experts" were ripping the Dallas O-line when discussing Bledsoe's problems. Now all of a sudden, Romo with no experience goes 24 for 36, 270+ yds in two consecutive tough road games. You watch guys like JP and Andrew Walters of Oakland and they really make average- to slightly below avg O-lines look horrible.

 

Again, let's hope the light switch goes on for JP like it did for Huard. He's not playing top defenses every week.