ko12010 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Oh so its all "talk" ... nothing from the players or coaches? 827734[/snapback] Well, it was talked about after Manning so called "threw his o-line under the bus" after the Pittsburgh loss last year, when there were multiple blown blocking assignments leading to sacks of Manning. I don't think any of his teammates said anything, I vaguely remember the little quibble between Vanderjagt and Manning. Vanderjagt questioned Manning's leadership I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Well, it was talked about after Manning so called "threw his o-line under the bus" after the Pittsburgh loss last year, when there were multiple blown blocking assignments leading to sacks of Manning. I don't think any of his teammates said anything, I vaguely remember the little quibble between Vanderjagt and Manning. Vanderjagt questioned Manning's leadership I think 827737[/snapback] A KICKER questioning someones leadership. Thats funny. Oh well. Kelly use to throw some guys under the bus too. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 A KICKER questioning someones leadership. Thats funny. Oh well. Kelly use to throw some guys under the bus too. I like that. 827738[/snapback] I think that's when Manning ended up calling Vanderjagt a drunk or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacificCoastBillsFan Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I think that's when Manning ended up calling Vanderjagt a drunk or something 827743[/snapback] Wasnt that durning a SI interview, right around the Pro Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I think that's when Manning ended up calling Vanderjagt a drunk or something 827743[/snapback] Wasnt that durning a SI interview, right around the Pro Bowl? 827750[/snapback] OH YEAH! I remember that (kinda). I think he was actually AT the pro-bowl and on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I'm not saying I agree with the Losman/Manning comparison...but since I like to play Devil's Advocate (and not the pinball game).... You're right, BlueFire. Manning had MORE than 3 years to study an NFL offense. His lineage alone provided more experience than JP ever had. Plus, he played for UT and was a much more polished product coming out. Pretty much every scouting report on JP coming out of college described him as "raw". That term was never used to describe Manning. 827485[/snapback] I dunno if I buy into that whole college experience being equivalent to being in the pros argument. There are just way too many differences for that to be the case. I'd like to submit exhibit A - all of the stats of Manning's first year. If he really had all that time to study an NFL offense, he would have been better. I also dunno if I buy into the lineage factor - I'd think a player is much more influenced by his time with the team then his family. His dad's biggest role was getting him to a college successfully. Once he was there, he's the coaches' boy now. I'd like to submit exhibit B - Chris Simms as evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I dunno if I buy into that whole college experience being equivalent to being in the pros argument. There are just way too many differences for that to be the case. I'd like to submit exhibit A - all of the stats of Manning's first year. If he really had all that time to study an NFL offense, he would have been better. I also dunno if I buy into the lineage factor - I'd think a player is much more influenced by his time with the team then his family. His dad's biggest role was getting him to a college successfully. Once he was there, he's the coaches' boy now. I'd like to submit exhibit B - Chris Simms as evidence. 827763[/snapback] I'd like to submit exhibit B - Both Manning brothers, Ken Griffey Jr, Barry Bonds, Brett Hull, Dante Stallworth, Prince Fielder. Being around the highest level of any sport from a young age will benefit anyone who wants to play that sport. It doesn't make a player great but it doesn't hurt either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 A KICKER questioning someones leadership. Thats funny. Oh well. Kelly use to throw some guys under the bus too. I like that. 827738[/snapback] Did Kelly win in the end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I dunno if I buy into that whole college experience being equivalent to being in the pros argument. There are just way too many differences for that to be the case. I'd like to submit exhibit A - all of the stats of Manning's first year. If he really had all that time to study an NFL offense, he would have been better. I also dunno if I buy into the lineage factor - I'd think a player is much more influenced by his time with the team then his family. His dad's biggest role was getting him to a college successfully. Once he was there, he's the coaches' boy now. I'd like to submit exhibit B - Chris Simms as evidence. 827763[/snapback] Phil Simms is no Archie Manning. The Simms thing is more close to a Bob-Brian Griese combo. Both daddy's won SB's yet didn't "have" the pure talent as a QB... The team carried the load at CRITICAL times Same can be said about Brady... But, I don't see that gay cabalero every having a prodigy... The best part of him is left in his lover's arse... Before this converstaion degenerates lower... I gotta go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltrane34 Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Don't get caught up on Manning. JP is not our problem. A poorly structured offensive system, bad play calls, no discipline, and fans that are ignorant to the sport of football as a whole are the problem. Watch the whole field and not just the QB, the team is putting Jp in situations that are very difficult to overcome. Dosn't matter who is in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Hi! I love it when you call me by my pet name, smooth talker. For anyone who thinks Jp should be pulled, remember that 99% of hall of Fame quarterbacks have not been very productive in their first full season of starts. Almost every good QB and even the great Manning, Farve, Kelly, Moon, Elway......I could go on, have all struggled mightily in the beginnings of their historic careers. JP should not and will not be pulled this entire Season. The combination of the entire teams mistakes will not be put on his shoulders. You people that want to see Nall or some rookie QB take over this team are ignorant to the game of football as a whole. With a young Quarterback you have to be ready to take some lumps in order to make him better. When you draft a young QB you have to let him develop over at least three to four years. If you give up before the kid has even a full season of starts then you should have just gotten a veteran free agent who has all ready been developed by another team. JP has everything he needs to be a premiere QB. Build around him, let him win the team and fans over with his persistance, and he will be great. Don't be a mularkey and try to ruin this teams chances for another few seasons. 827338[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I'd like to submit exhibit B - Both Manning brothers, Ken Griffey Jr, Barry Bonds, Brett Hull, Dante Stallworth, Prince Fielder. Being around the highest level of any sport from a young age will benefit anyone who wants to play that sport. It doesn't make a player great but it doesn't hurt either. 827921[/snapback] Does it really have that much of an effect? I don't think it does. Look at all the players in the NFL Hall of Fame, NHL hall of fame, etc. You don't find a lot of family lineage there. Phil Simms is no Archie Manning. The Simms thing is more close to a Bob-Brian Griese combo. Both daddy's won SB's yet didn't "have" the pure talent as a QB... The team carried the load at CRITICAL times Same can be said about Brady... But, I don't see that gay cabalero every having a prodigy... The best part of him is left in his lover's arse... ohmy.gif devil.gif ohmy.gif Before this converstaion degenerates lower... I gotta go... biggrin.gif biggrin.gif You can't measure how well a father teaches their kid a sport by how well they played on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdubs Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Don't get caught up on Manning. JP is not our problem. A poorly structured offensive system, bad play calls, no discipline, and fans that are ignorant to the sport of football as a whole are the problem. Watch the whole field and not just the QB, the team is putting Jp in situations that are very difficult to overcome. Dosn't matter who is in there. 828281[/snapback] this is SOOOOO true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 this is SOOOOO true! 828445[/snapback] Because, after all, the whole reason why the team sucks is because the fans are ignorant about football. Thats one of the stupidest comments I've ever read here. And he also say to not get caught up on Manning when this original thread was about Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Don't get caught up on Manning. JP is not our problem. A poorly structured offensive system, bad play calls, no discipline, and fans that are ignorant to the sport of football as a whole are the problem. Watch the whole field and not just the QB, the team is putting Jp in situations that are very difficult to overcome. Dosn't matter who is in there. 828281[/snapback] this is SOOOOO true! 828445[/snapback] Both of you are living in some fantasy world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 For anyone who thinks Jp should be pulled, remember that 99% of hall of Fame quarterbacks have not been very productive in their first full season of starts. Almost every good QB and even the great Manning, Farve, Kelly, Moon, Elway......I could go on, have all struggled mightily in the beginnings of their historic careers. JP should not and will not be pulled this entire Season. The combination of the entire teams mistakes will not be put on his shoulders. You people that want to see Nall or some rookie QB take over this team are ignorant to the game of football as a whole. With a young Quarterback you have to be ready to take some lumps in order to make him better. When you draft a young QB you have to let him develop over at least three to four years. If you give up before the kid has even a full season of starts then you should have just gotten a veteran free agent who has all ready been developed by another team. JP has everything he needs to be a premiere QB. Build around him, let him win the team and fans over with his persistance, and he will be great. Don't be a mularkey and try to ruin this teams chances for another few seasons. 827338[/snapback] Favre made the Pro Bowl his first year, Moon threw for 3400 yards, Kelly threw for 3600 yards and 22 Td's. Elway was less than stellar though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Favre made the Pro Bowl his first year, Moon threw for 3400 yards, Kelly threw for 3600 yards and 22 Td's. Elway was less than stellar though. 828547[/snapback] Favre, Pro Bowl in his first year? While playing in Atlanta? Didn't Moon start his career in the CFL? Is that Kelly's first year in a Bills uniform or in the minors that he opted to go to first, before playing for the Bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Favre, Pro Bowl in his first year? While playing in Atlanta? Didn't Moon start his career in the CFL? Is that Kelly's first year in a Bills uniform or in the minors that he opted to go to first, before playing for the Bills? 828576[/snapback] Favre had 5 snaps in Atlanta. He was traded and then came in for Majkowski in Mid September with 5 snaps of NFL experience and made the pro bowl. The others are their NFL rookie seasons, but you knew that already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Ok, but Favre made the Pro Bowl in his first year as a starter, something not many others have done As for the rest, they gained their experience in other leagues before stepping into the NFL and playing above par. You might get the same results if JP played in the CFL (or AFL) for a couple years too. The difference is, JP came staright out of college as a raw prospect and put into the position as a starting QB (probably a little too early) on a team that did not have the supporting cast to help him and cover for some of his mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Ok, but Favre made the Pro Bowl in his first year as a starter, something not many others have done As for the rest, they gained their experience in other leagues before stepping into the NFL and playing above par. You might get the same results if JP played in the CFL (or AFL) for a couple years too. The difference is, JP came staright out of college as a raw prospect and put into the position as a starting QB (probably a little too early) on a team that did not have the supporting cast to help him and cover for some of his mistakes 828644[/snapback] Dude. No matter what you say, JP has 3 years of experience. Not 3 years of starting. But 3 years of experience. Phillip Rivers ... sat the bench for a while and this is his first year starting and he is putting up near pro-bowl numbers (1,750 yards, 10 TD's, 3 INT) The thread started said Peyton had a bad rookie season? Are you kidding? He had a ton of interceptions but he also had over 3,000 yards and 26 touchdowns. Thats insane! McNabb's first year starting he had over 3,300 yards, 21 touchdowns and 13 INT Daunte Culpepper first year starting he had 4,000 yards 33 TD's and 16 INT and dont give me that Randy Moss bull-crap because Moss didnt even have 1/2 of Culpeppers TD's. Tom Brady first year starting ... Superbowl Brett Favre first year starting ... pro bowl So dont give us that crap (original thread poster) about QB's not being good their first year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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