generaLee83 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I'm not even worried if Nate misses this game. Instead of laying out some facts I'll just state that I find his play dissapointing. Kiwaukee Thomas, whom I was quite surprised even made the roster has proved me completely wrong. He's been in on quite a few plays this year and moves around the field well. I'm interested to see what he can do if he starts. I'll be bold and predict that he'll make an interception along with some great run stops at the line of scrimmage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 You are the 601, 259th person to post about being dissapointed in Clements play since Game 1 on this board .... I only wish he was gone already so you guys would see just how good of a player he is for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Kiwaukee Thomas, whom I was quite surprised even made the roster has proved me completely wrong. He's been in on quite a few plays this year and moves around the field well. I'm interested to see what he can do if he starts. I'll be bold and predict that he'll make an interception along with some great run stops at the line of scrimmage. 803277[/snapback] Is that the same Kiwaukee Thomas that dropped two easy INTs against the Bears or does this version have better hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Is that the same Kiwaukee Thomas that dropped two easy INTs against the Bears or does this version have better hands? 803288[/snapback] Yep that would be the same Thomas ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Seeing Roy Williams(assuming he plays) double move mcgee all game will be fun. I think kiwaukee thomas has played well as the nickel back. It could get ugly with him as a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Seeing Roy Williams(assuming he plays) double move mcgee all game will be fun. I think kiwaukee thomas has played well as the nickel back. It could get ugly with him as a starter. 803292[/snapback] Are you basing those McGee comments off of two games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Are you basing those McGee comments off of two games? 803295[/snapback] I've just never been a big terrence mcgee fan. I think he's an average corner who is overrated by a lot of bills fans. With that said I also think Clements is a lot better then a lot of bills fans will admit to. He might not be making the plays he's made in the past, but he's also not getting tested all that much. I just dont want to see terrence as our #1 corner next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I've just never been a big terrence mcgee fan. I think he's an average corner who is overrated by a lot of bills fans. With that said I also think Clements is a lot better then a lot of bills fans will admit to. He might not be making the plays he's made in the past, but he's also not getting tested all that much. I just dont want to see terrence as our #1 corner next year. 803303[/snapback] I can give kudos to that ... I think Bills fans will cry when they see what our secondary is without Nate Clements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 You are the 601, 259th person to post about being dissapointed in Clements play since Game 1 on this board .... I only wish he was gone already so you guys would see just how good of a player he is for us. 803285[/snapback] I only wish he was gone so that someone else could step up. It's not going to be hard to replace a guy who frequently misses tackles, gives his WR a 10 yard cushion and seldom helps in run support. He certainly isn't playing like a 7 million dollar man who's vying for a big contract next year (somewhere). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffal0 Bill5 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Is that the same Kiwaukee Thomas that dropped two easy INTs against the Bears or does this version have better hands? 803288[/snapback] As they say, that is why he plays defense instead of wide receiver. Clements is still a solid player, but I agree here He certainly isn't playing like a 7 million dollar man who's vying for a big contract next year (somewhere). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 What about a possible appearance by Youboty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 He certainly isn't playing like a 7 million dollar man who's vying for a big contract next year (somewhere). 803329[/snapback] I think that's the key here. Clements, IMO, is a good corner and I'd be more than happy to have him on the Bills for many years to come. However, he wants big money? He a "playmaker"? Best corner in the league? Getting his head out of his arse should be essential to him staying. Otherwise, we can get someone a whole lot cheaper that plays average to above average corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I only wish he was gone already so you guys would see just how good of a player he is for us. Yep. The Nate detractors are expecting Deion Sanders in his prime. Nate's not that good, nor will he ever be. But, he is a damn fine corner. It's not going to be hard to replace a guy who frequently misses tackles, gives his WR a 10 yard cushion and seldom helps in run support. The cushion is part of the scheme, Cover 2. From what I understand, it is predicated on not allowing the big play, having a swarming, speedy D to limit YAC. Now, I do think, with our corners, we could play it a bit tighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Yep. The Nate detractors are expecting Deion Sanders in his prime. Nate's not that good, nor will he ever be. But, he is a damn fine corner. 803404[/snapback] Well for the money he is making and wants to make (especially in a contract year), the Bills should be expecting Deon Sanders in his Prime. Everyone attacked Willis for saying he was the best back in the league, yet what about clements who wants to be payed as the top CB in the league? He may be a very good CB, but he isn't showing it right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 As they say, that is why he plays defense instead of wide receiver. 803330[/snapback] Exactly, an INT would have been nice, but it is still a deflected pass. The ball did not end up in the WR's hand so he is still doing his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I can give kudos to that ... I think Bills fans will cry when they see what our secondary is without Nate Clements. 803304[/snapback] Yeah, our secondary will then have to play with a cushion on receivers and will likely give up a lot of first downs on 3rd and long. Wait, they do that now? With Clements? Huh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I only wish he was gone so that someone else could step up. It's not going to be hard to replace a guy who frequently misses tackles, gives his WR a 10 yard cushion and seldom helps in run support. He certainly isn't playing like a 7 million dollar man who's vying for a big contract next year (somewhere). 803329[/snapback] This shows your gross lack of football knowledge ... the cushion is part of the scheme that a TON of teams use including the Falcons with DeAngelo Hall (who many think is a great corner) and watch Champ Bailey play a few games. He gives cushion on nearly half the plays he goes. I think that's the key here. Clements, IMO, is a good corner and I'd be more than happy to have him on the Bills for many years to come. However, he wants big money? He a "playmaker"? Best corner in the league? Getting his head out of his arse should be essential to him staying. Otherwise, we can get someone a whole lot cheaper that plays average to above average corner. 803397[/snapback] So we are not going to pay a darn fine corner the money so we can pick up a CB in the draft, mold him, and then ship him off when he wants the money and do this over and over and over? think about it due Yep. The Nate detractors are expecting Deion Sanders in his prime. Nate's not that good, nor will he ever be. But, he is a damn fine corner.The cushion is part of the scheme, Cover 2. From what I understand, it is predicated on not allowing the big play, having a swarming, speedy D to limit YAC. Now, I do think, with our corners, we could play it a bit tighter. 803404[/snapback] Wow. Someone understands. I think if the people on this thread went to the games and watched Nate just flat out play, you would see how good he is. He shuts down good WR's (such as Steve Smith last year) throughout the entire game and gives up a play or two. Thats all you can expect. People on TV dont realize this and see him give up a play and thinks he sucks. For goodness sakes people. Open your eyes. He is in the top 4 CB's in the league right now and deserves to be paid it because if he is not paid it, he will go to another team and we will be stuck with a roookie CB from the draft and 3 second year players in our secondary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Yeah, our secondary will then have to play with a cushion on receivers and will likely give up a lot of first downs on 3rd and long. Wait, they do that now? With Clements? Huh... 803446[/snapback] So does Bailey and Hall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I agree. I just don't see Nate's play improving, in fact he's just an average db to me. Gets burned by taking chances he doesn't need to take. Ceeya Nate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I think people get to worked up about the money he makes....lets face it...its not OUR money...its Ralf WIlsons... BUT One thing that is bothering me greatly is this is a contract year for him....and he isn't playing like it. Usually players dont play better after a contract year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 This shows your gross lack of football knowledge ... the cushion is part of the scheme that a TON of teams use including the Falcons with DeAngelo Hall (who many think is a great corner) and watch Champ Bailey play a few games. He gives cushion on nearly half the plays he goes.So we are not going to pay a darn fine corner the money so we can pick up a CB in the draft, mold him, and then ship him off when he wants the money and do this over and over and over? think about it due Wow. Someone understands. I think if the people on this thread went to the games and watched Nate just flat out play, you would see how good he is. He shuts down good WR's (such as Steve Smith last year) throughout the entire game and gives up a play or two. Thats all you can expect. People on TV dont realize this and see him give up a play and thinks he sucks. For goodness sakes people. Open your eyes. He is in the top 4 CB's in the league right now and deserves to be paid it because if he is not paid it, he will go to another team and we will be stuck with a roookie CB from the draft and 3 second year players in our secondary 803511[/snapback] Daq I usually like your posts but top 4? I have no response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 So does Bailey and Hall 803513[/snapback] Is that the same Hall that has 3int's for 115yds and 1TD this year? And the same Bailey that had 8int's, 15 passes defensed, and 2TD's last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Daq I usually like your posts but top 4? I have no response. 803724[/snapback] How many Bills games do you go to every year? I just challenge you to keep your eyes on Nate Clements EVERY SINGLE defense play and watch how many plays he blankets his receiver and how many plays he does not. He is a GOOD CB and I am not the only one who thinks so. Their are going to be MANY teams bidding for his services if we let him go into free agency ... and they are willing to pay him the big money for a reason. Is that the same Hall that has 3int's for 115yds and 1TD this year? And the same Bailey that had 8int's, 15 passes defensed, and 2TD's last year? 803729[/snapback] Thats my entire point ... they use the same cushion scheme. If your going to blame the scheme then look at other players who use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I think people get to worked up about the money he makes....lets face it...its not OUR money...its Ralf WIlsons... BUT One thing that is bothering me greatly is this is a contract year for him....and he isn't playing like it. Usually players dont play better after a contract year.... 803722[/snapback] This is his second straight contract year ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 How many Bills games do you go to every year? I just challenge you to keep your eyes on Nate Clements EVERY SINGLE defense play and watch how many plays he blankets his receiver and how many plays he does not. He is a GOOD CB and I am not the only one who thinks so. Their are going to be MANY teams bidding for his services if we let him go into free agency ... and they are willing to pay him the big money for a reason.Thats my entire point ... they use the same cushion scheme. If your going to blame the scheme then look at other players who use it. 803741[/snapback] That was totally not my point. Your argument was that other players such as Bailey and Hall have the same cushion because of the scheme, take chances and get beat from time to time just like Clements does. My point was that look at the numbers they put up to show for it versus Clements. 0ints this year and 2ints last year as opposed to those numbers i stated for Hall and Bailey. Nate may have the same talent that the upper echelon corners do, but he does not produce the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 This is his second straight contract year ... 803742[/snapback] And he was horrible last year. He's been better this year but that doesn't erase how bad he was last year. He was toasted on a consistant basis last year. Yet somehow he's a "top 4 CB". He has the potential to be the best in the league but his performance last year wasn't even average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 That was totally not my point. Your argument was that other players such as Bailey and Hall have the same cushion because of the scheme, take chances and get beat from time to time just like Clements does. My point was that look at the numbers they put up to show for it versus Clements. 0ints this year and 2ints last year as opposed to those numbers i stated for Hall and Bailey. Nate may have the same talent that the upper echelon corners do, but he does not produce the same. 803787[/snapback] INT's arent everything. But yes I see your point. And he was horrible last year. He's been better this year but that doesn't erase how bad he was last year. He was toasted on a consistant basis last year. Yet somehow he's a "top 4 CB". He has the potential to be the best in the league but his performance last year wasn't even average. 803790[/snapback] Whether you think so or not he will be paid top 4 money and may just play like a top 4 CB ... I think we all have rose-colored glasses because he is on our team. Their IS A REASON WHY OTHERS TEAMS ARE WILLING TO PAY HIM THE MONEY! Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Whether you think so or not he will be paid top 4 money and may just play like a top 4 CB ... I think we all have rose-colored glasses because he is on our team. Their IS A REASON WHY OTHERS TEAMS ARE WILLING TO PAY HIM THE MONEY! Think about it. 803911[/snapback] That's pure speculation. You have no idea if he'll be paid top 4 money or not. Perhaps he will but I'd guess a lot has to do with how he performs this year. If he has another stinker there's no way teams break the bank on a player who has just come off two bad seasons in a row. If he plays to his potential then yeah, I can see him getting top 4-5 money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 That's pure speculation. You have no idea if he'll be paid top 4 money or not. Perhaps he will but I'd guess a lot has to do with how he performs this year. If he has another stinker there's no way teams break the bank on a player who has just come off two bad seasons in a row. If he plays to his potential then yeah, I can see him getting top 4-5 money. 804164[/snapback] We shall see ... just remember. Their is a reason we franchised him after his "stinker" of a season last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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