Ghost of BiB Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 No big deal, bud. We're all smiles here on the commune. 643891[/snapback] You guys really should consider bathing now and then, though. And that blonde chick would be sorta cute if she shaved once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 How are you going to get rid of 11 million? That will take what, maybe six or eight cars, at least. 643171[/snapback] I don't post over here very often, but for the love of... I just saw a big banner on the news, "Immigrant Rights." You're not legally here. How the hell can you demand rights? This is all so clear to me. Side A? Legal. Side B? Illegal. What's the problem? The way I see it, a *lot* of illegals are out there for the taking now. Dump trucks. Lots of them. No sleep 'til the border. If you want to stay, you pay all of your back taxes plus penalties. Learn English. Apply for citiczenship. Use your own tax ID number. Hell, I'll help carry your stojan into your new house for you if you do it legally. I can't believe for a second that non-residents who have illegaly entered the country are protesting for their *rights* and the general populous isn't outraged. Throw the border security issues on top and you'd think we'd have posse's rounding 'em up. Bah. The problem has gotten so big that no one will be deported. We'll probably wind up allowing them to apply to stay from their places here. -Jeff Ok. I just had to vent. Thanks for reading =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 You guys really should consider bathing now and then, though. And that blonde chick would be sorta cute if she shaved once in a while. 643896[/snapback] That's not a chick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I don't post over here very often, but for the love of... I just saw a big banner on the news, "Immigrant Rights." You're not legally here. How the hell can you demand rights? This is all so clear to me. Side A? Legal. Side B? Illegal. What's the problem? The way I see it, a *lot* of illegals are out there for the taking now. Dump trucks. Lots of them. No sleep 'til the border. If you want to stay, you pay all of your back taxes plus penalties. Learn English. Apply for citiczenship. Use your own tax ID number. Hell, I'll help carry your stojan into your new house for you if you do it legally. I can't believe for a second that non-residents who have illegaly entered the country are protesting for their *rights* and the general populous isn't outraged. Throw the border security issues on top and you'd think we'd have posse's rounding 'em up. Bah. The problem has gotten so big that no one will be deported. We'll probably wind up allowing them to apply to stay from their places here. -Jeff Ok. I just had to vent. Thanks for reading =) 643956[/snapback] I was playing on an old joke, but yeah, this one is too big to handle in anything approaching a simple, reasonable manner. Whatever anyone's take is. Sort of like Social Security, in a way. Things that are hard seem to get ignored forever. I've learned over the years that it's usually better to address my hard problems when I get the notice, because if I ignore them they are usually a whole lot harder the year after. And worse the year after that. Seems like there is a pretty clear curve on things getting harder the more one ignores them. Whatever, I'm working on a lottery cheating scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Until this happens right wing self-righteous anger is hypocritical and probably racist. So much for all that human dignity puff crap the white house put out. 643387[/snapback] Any time someone brings up the "Racist Card" in this debate it is time to ignore them. They obviously can't grasp the situation. Look, if there were millions and millions of uneducated, white Canadians sneaking into the country who will speak only French, and they get treated better, than you will have point. In the meantime, you have deal with the problem at its source. That doesn't make someone a racist. What, should any so called minority in the country be totally except from the law, so we don't offend someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 Any time someone brings up the "Racist Card" in this debate it is time to ignore them.They obviously can't grasp the situation. Look, if there were millions and millions of uneducated, white Canadians sneaking into the country who will speak only French, and they get treated better, than you will have point. In the meantime, you have deal with the problem at its source. That doesn't make someone a racist. What, should any so called minority in the country be totally except from the law, so we don't offend someone? 643974[/snapback] I probably shouldn't have used the probably racist term, got pissed by VA bills response to my original post, your right that was over the top, don't know him/her so I shouldn't make the judgement. On the illegal/legal issue I still don't understand the self-righteousness attitude in the debate. People are desperate to get here and make a better life for their families and because they feel for whatever reason/economic probably the most prevalent, to cross without proper documentation is the only way for them to get to the US. Now from our standpoint we need to find away to control this problem and at the very least document these folks. Because among them will be folks that we do not want here and it is messing up our labor supply and unduly taxing our governmental systems. But if it feels good to call them illegals to justify locking them up or sending them back I feel for you. In my opinion it denegrates and takes away from a rational response to a difficult human problem, not much different than the way the police treated the alchey's at the bar in TX. I don't disagree with some of things that need to be done about the situation, just think that we should treat these folks with some dignity while we are sending them back. The real scumbags are the illegal idiot businessmen that hire them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 On the illegal/legal issue I still don't understand the self-righteousness attitude in the debate. People are desperate to get here and make a better life for their families and because they feel for whatever reason/economic probably the most prevalent, to cross without proper documentation is the only way for them to get to the US. 644057[/snapback] How is it self-righteousness? It's a case of right and wrong, no? Hell, my life would be better if I had a few million in the bank, forgive me if I think stealing it is the only way to make that happen. It was for the good of my family, so it's okay. I'm all for letting them in and blending culture and all that happy hippy crap, but the wrong needs to be set right before that can happen. No, deporting everyone by the busload probably doesn't make sense, but demanding back taxes, associated penalties, and some attempt at Americanization sure does. Why is that too much to ask? If they can't agree to that, then back to the busload idea. Immigration law as a whole needs to be reevaluated. It shouldn't be such a pain in the ass for those that *do* want to legally live here. We should welcome those that want to do it the right way as they'll influence others to follow suit. We really should give them every opportunity to make a better life for themselves here. I fully agree with that. Before that can happen, we need to deal with the fact that a lot of them _broke the law_. Of course, if the tax code wasn't so..... -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 How is it self-righteousness? It's a case of right and wrong, no? Hell, my life would be better if I had a few million in the bank, forgive me if I think stealing it is the only way to make that happen. It was for the good of my family, so it's okay. I'm all for letting them in and blending culture and all that happy hippy crap, but the wrong needs to be set right before that can happen. No, deporting everyone by the busload probably doesn't make sense, but demanding back taxes, associated penalties, and some attempt at Americanization sure does. Why is that too much to ask? If they can't agree to that, then back to the busload idea. Immigration law as a whole needs to be reevaluated. It shouldn't be such a pain in the ass for those that *do* want to legally live here. We should welcome those that want to do it the right way as they'll influence others to follow suit. We really should give them every opportunity to make a better life for themselves here. I fully agree with that. Before that can happen, we need to deal with the fact that a lot of them _broke the law_. Of course, if the tax code wasn't so..... -Jeff 644075[/snapback] I don't have a problem with your solution in fact that is what the Senate did today....http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060328/ap_on_go_co/immigration. My problem is the law and order right and wrong analysis. Right and wrong for who when our system is screwed to begin with. Technically they are illegal, but folks use the term to justify making them felons. Economic insecurity doesn't justify asylum seekers into this country, I understand, but it doesn't rise to the level of a felony. Maybe something along the lines of a stiff speeding ticket. I know it is a matter of symantics, but the illegal label denegrates these folks and is used by folks justify their xenophobic attitudes. I like the Senate solution as a good base to start and it is close to your above post. P.S. Were not talking about folks with a lot of spare change, they can afford to buy off a few politicians or border folks and get in "legally." Your million dollar analogy doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I don't have a problem with your solution in fact that is what the Senate did today....http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060328/ap_on_go_co/immigration. My problem is the law and order right and wrong analysis. Right and wrong for who when our system is screwed to begin with. Technically they are illegal, but folks use the term to justify making them felons. Economic insecurity doesn't justify asylum seekers into this country, I understand, but it doesn't rise to the level of a felony. Maybe something along the lines of a stiff speeding ticket. I know it is a matter of symantics, but the illegal label denegrates these folks and is used by folks justify their xenophobic attitudes. I like the Senate solution as a good base to start and it is close to your above post. P.S. Were not talking about folks with a lot of spare change, they can afford to buy off a few politicians or border folks and get in "legally." Your million dollar analogy doesn't work. 644078[/snapback] I probably should have chosen a better analogy; I was trying to underscore the fact that doing something illegal shouldn't be easily forgiveable simply because it's an improvement in my quality of life. I'm the idiot that always gives $0.50 to the same bum every day, even though I know he's using it to power his crack torch. I want to give these folks a chance. Like I said, as long as they clear the wrongs. I think a stiff speeding ticket is a little bit too soft, but now we're arguing details. It's not the penalty for sneaking in I'm concerned about, it's the repayment for all of the governement provided benefits they've enjoyed. They've been living here enjoying US protection, schools, medical care - all of the things we have to offer. They need to pay for their share of the benefit they've consumed. Now, if we had a consumption tax... -Jeff PS.. I'm tired and I've just noticed my spelling and grammar is at a 2nd grade level tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 I probably should have chosen a better analogy; I was trying to underscore the fact that doing something illegal shouldn't be easily forgiveable simply because it's an improvement in my quality of life. I'm the idiot that always gives $0.50 to the same bum every day, even though I know he's using it to power his crack torch. I want to give these folks a chance. Like I said, as long as they clear the wrongs. I think a stiff speeding ticket is a little bit too soft, but now we're arguing details. It's not the penalty for sneaking in I'm concerned about, it's the repayment for all of the governement provided benefits they've enjoyed. They've been living here enjoying US protection, schools, medical care - all of the things we have to offer. They need to pay for their share of the benefit they've consumed. Now, if we had a consumption tax... -Jeff PS.. I'm tired and I've just noticed my spelling and grammar is at a 2nd grade level tonight. 644087[/snapback] Understood, the Kennedy/McCain bill actually does that, requires that they have paid even back taxes, learn English and something about the culture here. Not sure what else, but decriminalizes them if they follow these rules. Consumption tax is inherently regressive, but with all the tax breaks for the rich, that argument might not matter as long as it applies to Corporations too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Technically they are illegal 644078[/snapback] Huh??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 Huh??? 644090[/snapback] Yes and so apparently is getting drunk in a bar in Texas, still doesn't mean treating both as criminals isn't idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Yes and so apparently is getting drunk in a bar in Texas, still doesn't mean treating both as criminals isn't idiotic. 644091[/snapback] Ok, let me get this straight. Illegal immigrants are technically illegal but treating them as criminals is idiotic? Uffda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 Ok, let me get this straight. Illegal immigrants are technically illegal but treating them as criminals is idiotic? Uffda! 644093[/snapback] Yep, that is my story, stickin to it, that is the way I was raised in my Church, one of those Jesus things. Especially since some idiotic Dept. of Immigration can't find its ass with both hands and a mirror and our immigration policy seems to be pretty arbritrary and capricious on who and when we let them in. Until those situations are rectified...calling them criminals makes no sense, having restrictions and fines place on them as part of a more coherent immigration strategy does and then if they break the law fine. Also, I am not including in this list the vultures on either side of the border taking every last dollar of these poor folks and sometimes making them the equivalent of indentured servants, they are criminals and should be locked up for a long time. If you can't understand that, I've got no hope for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Yep, that is my story, stickin to it, that is the way I was raised in my Church, one of those Jesus things. Especially since some idiotic Dept. of Immigration can't find its ass with both hands and a mirror and our immigration policy seems to be pretty arbritrary and capricious on who and when we let them in. Until those situations are rectified...calling them criminals makes no sense, having restrictions and fines place on them as part of a more coherent immigration strategy does and then if they break the law fine. Also, I am not including in this list the vultures on either side of the border taking every last dollar of these poor folks and sometimes making them the equivalent of indentured servants, they are criminals and should be locked up for a long time. If you can't understand that, I've got no hope for you. 644097[/snapback] You have no hope for me?? Wow, you're the lost cause. Please tell me how someone can be illegal and not a criminal at the same time. If anything you belong in the undocumented worker camp. If so that's your thoughts. Mine, obviously are very different. Why should we continue to let them in without following proper channels? The crowd our schools, fill our hospitals, supress wages and send billions of dollars home each year. They send it home, support thier families there and when they have enough they go back to finish their lives there. They use us, our system and thumb their noses at us as they retire back on the hacienda. What a sap you are, and they know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Understood, the Kennedy/McCain bill actually does that, requires that they have paid even back taxes, learn English and something about the culture here. Not sure what else, but decriminalizes them if they follow these rules. Consumption tax is inherently regressive, but with all the tax breaks for the rich, that argument might not matter as long as it applies to Corporations too. 644089[/snapback] See, the problem there is "decriminalizes them." The fact still remains that they did something illegal. They should not be granted clemency. There needs to be a penalty and it needs to carry forth with them like any other violation. They knowingly commited a crime. Any other option is a complete disregard for rule of law. Regardless of how messed up you think the DOI is, there are still laws being broken. My gut feeling is "if they don't respect our laws and our nation enough to come through the borders via the proper channels, send them back." Like I said earlier, though, the problem is *so* widespread that it isn't possible to do that to all of them. It would be a futile waste of more taxpayer money to attempt it. I suggested what I did not because I want to make everyone who snuck in happy, but rather the standard "catch and deport" methodology isn't going to work when there are 11,000,000 to move. The only realistic solution as I see it is to allow some "alternative" to those already in the nation. If that comes to pass it needs to be followed by a very strict increase in border security, otherwise we'll be doing this every 5 years. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 We can at least start to ship them back. Go in front of any Home Depot Lowes, etc in CA. There are at least 30 ILLEGALS standing at the curb . If you don't hire them, they start cursing at you in Spanish (at least I think that's what they are saying). Get a bus. Ask each one for proof of citizenship. None- back to Mexico, Pedro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Thanks Johnny but VABills is part of the immigration problem, should send him back to where he or his family a couple of generations back came from. I see this debate on a couple of different levels, but the illega/ legal argument as a waste of time. I understand why folks try and get into this country by any means possible, the stupid felon label attachment means as much to the undocumented folks as it does to a drug addict. Actually a felony may mean more to the addict. However I do think a label attached to an undocumented alien should be able to be come up with to be able to track and prevent reentry. The real question is how to best deal with the migrant flows and how best to track folks coming in. The wall may be a step to partially prevent undocumented folks from entering. But the real problem is business that are always looking for short cuts willing to hire these folks. If you are going to label undocumented immigrants as illegals then you have to make it more than a felony for businesses and increase civil fines high enough to businesses that hire them to discourage the practice. Until this happens right wing self-righteous anger is hypocritical and probably racist. So much for all that human dignity puff crap the white house put out. Job issues are important and I can understand the frustration on that score, it is also a social issue. The same nasty responses were directed at the Irish, Italians and Germans and Chinese when they first came over, legally or illegally. A rational governmental response would help reduce some of this frustration. 643387[/snapback] Congratulations, you were the first liberal to play the race card. You get the daily retard star. We can pretend illegal immigration is exactly the same problem that it was 100 years ago, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Yep, that is my story, stickin to it, that is the way I was raised in my Church, one of those Jesus things. 644097[/snapback] Yet you didn't like Texas, a state the uses the very same rationale for their stupidity too. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Yep, that is my story, stickin to it, that is the way I was raised in my Church, one of those Jesus things. Especially since some idiotic Dept. of Immigration can't find its ass with both hands and a mirror and our immigration policy seems to be pretty arbritrary and capricious on who and when we let them in. Until those situations are rectified...calling them criminals makes no sense, having restrictions and fines place on them as part of a more coherent immigration strategy does and then if they break the law fine. Also, I am not including in this list the vultures on either side of the border taking every last dollar of these poor folks and sometimes making them the equivalent of indentured servants, they are criminals and should be locked up for a long time. If you can't understand that, I've got no hope for you. 644097[/snapback] Just when I thought you couldn't sink any lower on the credibility scale, you throw in a "what would Jesus do". So at this point I'm a racist and a sinner because I don't want to let everyone in the world take advantage of the great benefits this country has to offer. The benefits that AMERICANS fought so hard to achieve. If you do not feel like your country is offering you a decent life (Cuba and Mexico as example), fight for your freedom and improve your country. America is the land of opportunity because people were willing to fight and sacrifice to build it. It is a slippery slope once you start justifying illegal activity to better your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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