BF_in_Indiana Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Exactly how I view it. The OL is bad on certain calls. Other times, they block well enough to allow the skill players opportunities to make something happen. Instead, the skill players fail to deliver. We refuse to accept this, making countless hollow excuses and blaming the OL. 46460[/snapback] I'm not debating the skill players aren't making plays. It works both ways though. The line has to take responsibility when they don't do the job just as Drew does or anyone else. Would you agree however that the Bills have seriously failed to address the line since 1994? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 27, 2004 Author Share Posted September 27, 2004 1998- 10-6 1999- 11-5 2000 - 8-8 Wades' last 3 years in Buffalo. If we supposedly didn't have a good OL since the Kelly years, then how did we win ? Oh, that's right. The midget QB and the skill position players made the 6-10 key plays needed most weeks to win football games. Plus they didn't turn the ball over in crunch time. The commentators during the Colts game were analizing the Colts OL yesterday. OT Tarik Glenn was a #1 pick and is playing OK. One Lineman was a 4th rounder, another a 7th. The remaining 2 were Undrafted Free Agents. I'm going to start researching other rosters of winning teams to see who has an OL full of high picks. Bet the results will be an eye opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 The thing is, the anti Bledsoe contingent here wants to blame him for EVERYTHING that goes wrong. It's a team sport. If the line doesn't do their part up front that hinders Bledsoe from doing his part. That also hinders Travis Henry from doing his job, and the WR's to do theirs. We haven't SERIOUSLY addressed our offensive line in a long time. It's no suprise that our best years in the NFL came with an offensive line with 3 pro bowlers on it. We don't even have 3 TOILET BOWLERS on this line now......... 46221[/snapback] Toilet Bowlers. *LOL* Love it. As Happy Bunny would say: "Sucky Losers Not Allowed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I was watching the Colts-Packers game yesterday and you can say what you want about the Colts OL being top notch, but the Packers blitzed a lot and it resulted in good pressure; yet Manning always got rid of the ball. The TD to Harrison was amazing, there's no way Bledsoe WOULDN'T have gotten sacked on that play. Granted, that's an exceptional example because there aren't many Peyton Mannings around. Still, it'd be nice if our QB had SOME pocket awareness. I guess my point is that we need a QB AND an OL. That's not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Exactly how I view it. The OL is bad on certain calls. Other times, they block well enough to allow the skill players opportunities to make something happen. Instead, the skill players fail to deliver. We refuse to accept this, making countless hollow excuses and blaming the OL. 46460[/snapback] Now that, I agree with you. Between the bad passes, dropped balls, fumbles, etc. It isn't just the OL fault just as its not just Bledsoe's fault. Every offensive player needs to be held accountable for the first two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyJay1234 Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 The common link with most good to great offensive lines is a dominate center. Kelly made the decision to retire because he was getting up in age an his dominate center Kent Hull was retiring. I believe that we have a decent line with Williams, Jennings and Chris V. The problem is Teague. I look at all the great running teams and they have a great center. I truly believe we are a Center away from being a very good football team. It sounds bizarre.. Look at the Bills post Hull. They have never had a great Center since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg de'Ville Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 ...I'm no big fan of PP-FSSJJ, but he made a cogent comment during halftime of the Indy-GB game Sunday. "Defenses blitz poor quarterbacks, and defend (read: fall back into coverage) against good quarterbacks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I've thought since last year that this OLine is contructed wrong. Our beef is at the tackles and our finesse guys are on the inside. Until we put the beef in the middle and the finess/speed guys on the outside, I don't see this line improving its pass protection much. The rest of the season you will see exactly what the Raiders did. Send the big guys up the middle and overwhelm Teague and when that is compensated for send the speed guys around the end, where Williams and Jennings (not so much Jennings, but it does happen) don't have the quickness to handle it. We also need a massive guard with Conrad Dobler's attitude. This is the key to this team. Either that or bring back Flutie and let him run for his life!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Mark, you make sense as usual, but dont you wonder WHY Drew is screwed up and probably done? Or RJ was destroyed? Or Kelly retired a year or so early? It IS because the OL sucks, and will continue to do so, unless a major commitment is made to it, which appears unlikely to impossible. Henry is another story. 46167[/snapback] Well said. I still recall the beatings Kelly took against Pittsburg on Monday night the last years of his career. Those games alone must have taken a year off his career. I also recall how he was in the face of his O-line all night, but it made no difference. Our line has been bad since the early 90's and all the bench fodder that's been used to make a line afterward has led to the downward spiral. This began under Levy and has just continued year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 ...snip... Oh, that's right. The midget QB and the skill position players made the 6-10 key plays needed most weeks to win football games. Plus they didn't turn the ball over in crunch time. ...snip... You mean they don't fumble in the redzone against the Dolphins in a playoff game? Oh wait.... CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 For Mark VI and others to say that our line and pass protection is not the root of our problems on offense just ignores reality. For example, our rushing average is 2.7 yards per carry. What does that say about the quality of our line? I am sure that some of you will try to blame that on DB as well. Somebody was trying to compare DB's protection to Donovan McNabb's. What is the quality of McNabb's line? Well, for one thing, Philly's rushing game averages 4.7 yards per carry. That is two yards more per carry. Somebody also brought up Kurt Warner and Steve McNair. The Giants and Titans average 4.2 and 4.9 yards per carry respectively. What does that say about the quality of their lines compared to our line? It is way too easy to blame one guy. Typically, people who have not played the game or know very little about it make this mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 1998- 10-61999- 11-5 2000 - 8-8 Wades' last 3 years in Buffalo. If we supposedly didn't have a good OL since the Kelly years, then how did we win ? Oh, that's right. The midget QB and the skill position players made the 6-10 key plays needed most weeks to win football games. Plus they didn't turn the ball over in crunch time. The commentators during the Colts game were analizing the Colts OL yesterday. OT Tarik Glenn was a #1 pick and is playing OK. One Lineman was a 4th rounder, another a 7th. The remaining 2 were Undrafted Free Agents. I'm going to start researching other rosters of winning teams to see who has an OL full of high picks. Bet the results will be an eye opener. 46466[/snapback] 8-8??? Why would you throw that one in there, that's not exactly flattering. We could also throw in 1995 when we finished 10-6 or 1996 when we did the same thing. The truth is our line was weak in all 5 of those seasons. The 1995-1996 line was much better then the 1998-2000 line. If you remember right, Flutie got benched for RJ before the playoffs because of what??? The offense not moving the ball. This was the same line that couldn't surge ahead on the "4th and dumb" play against NY where we needed less then a yard to sew up that game. I totally agree with you, the skill players aren't making plays either. Everyone should be held accountable for their play and the line is certainly an issue. It doesn't matter to me where the guys are drafted. If they are 5th rounders and turn into good players that's what I'm looking for. The fact is though that taking one OL this year in the 7th round who was basically a project is not showing enough concern for an obviously weak area. We do the same thing with DE. Would you agree with this at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 27, 2004 Author Share Posted September 27, 2004 It is way too easy to blame one guy. Typically, people who have not played the game or know very little about it make this mistake. 46921[/snapback] The blame is equally distributed. That's the original message of the post. Many here put ALL the blame on the Offensive Line and defend Bledsoe,Henry,Moulds as completely blameless. Even when opportunities arise, they can't seem to make the big play. Their stats are subpar due to many of their own shortcomings. I was not defending the Line. People who have trouble reading often make this mistake when responding.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 The rushing average per carry is an indictment on the lack of production from the offense in general. It's no coincidence that during Bledsoe's first year here, Travis Henry rushed for 1400 yards. That was largely in part due to the threat Bledsoe and the offense posed through the air. Teams couldn't tee off, stack 8 men in the box and all-out blitz. The offense no longer poses such a threat. For Mark VI and others to say that our line and pass protection is not the root of our problems on offense just ignores reality. For example, our rushing average is 2.7 yards per carry. What does that say about the quality of our line? I am sure that some of you will try to blame that on DB as well. Somebody was trying to compare DB's protection to Donovan McNabb's. What is the quality of McNabb's line? Well, for one thing, Philly's rushing game averages 4.7 yards per carry. That is two yards more per carry. Somebody also brought up Kurt Warner and Steve McNair. The Giants and Titans average 4.2 and 4.9 yards per carry respectively. What does that say about the quality of their lines compared to our line? It is way too easy to blame one guy. Typically, people who have not played the game or know very little about it make this mistake. 46921[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Just because you're tired of the offensive line being blamed for the poor offensive performance the past year and a half doesn't mean that it's no longer a valid key factor. Other key factors include the departure of Price, the horrible coaching and playcalling, lack of confidence, lack of effort, fumbles, defense's lack of getting turnovers and shortening the playing field, inability to execute the draw and screen pass plays (huge factor here), inability to block blitzing players and yes Bledsoe's lack of production. This team needs to have success on offense in both the running AND passing game. Success breeds success. If this team ever figures out how to correct these seemingly correctable key factors then I think we can put some points on the board. Go ahead and laugh. Just take a look at the Giants, they went from having the worst offense in the league to now a budding juggernaut. We too have skilled players, it's now up to the coaches and the player's willingness to execute that could point this team in a 180 direction. I believe that if we implement draws, screens, bomb passes, along with the heavy run attack, and start using McGahee and Evans, this team can turn it around and be the feared offense we've longed been looking for. I just wish people here would stop looking at ONE thing and harping on it. It's everything more than just one thing and the sad thing is that they are all correctable. Hey Malarkey, it's time to earn your pay buddy...time to fix this offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Just because you're tired of the offensive line being blamed for the poor offensive performance the past year and a half doesn't mean that it's no longer a valid key factor. Other key factors include the departure of Price, the horrible coaching and playcalling, lack of confidence, lack of effort, fumbles, defense's lack of getting turnovers and shortening the playing field, inability to execute the draw and screen pass plays (huge factor here), inability to block blitzing players and yes Bledsoe's lack of production. This team needs to have success on offense in both the running AND passing game. Success breeds success. If this team ever figures out how to correct these seemingly correctable key factors then I think we can put some points on the board. Go ahead and laugh. Just take a look at the Giants, they went from having the worst offense in the league to now a budding juggernaut. We too have skilled players, it's now up to the coaches and the player's willingness to execute that could point this team in a 180 direction. I believe that if we implement draws, screens, bomb passes, along with the heavy run attack, and start using McGahee and Evans, this team can turn it around and be the feared offense we've longed been looking for. I just wish people here would stop looking at ONE thing and harping on it. It's everything more than just one thing and the sad thing is that they are all correctable. Hey Malarkey, it's time to earn your pay buddy...time to fix this offense. 46996[/snapback] Do you know who the acting offensive line coach is the the Giants? A hint: he was on last year's Bills' staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Do you know who the acting offensive line coach is the the Giants? A hint: he was on last year's Bills' staff. 47003[/snapback] So what's your point? The Giants know how to execute the draw and the screen play. They have an offensive coordinator that will get the ball to Shockey and Toomer (their skill players). This is a playcalling and an execution problem. The fact that some position coach is now on the Giants is inconsequential to me. I think the Bills have every bit as much line talent as the Giants do. I know it's not saying much, but at least they can devise plays that will throw opposing defenses off balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Many here put ALL the blame on the Offensive Line and defend Bledsoe,Henry,Moulds as completely blameless. 46954[/snapback] They are very special fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILLS4LIFE Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 As Happy Bunny would say: "Sucky Losers Not Allowed". 46470[/snapback] How is Happy Bunny? I got my pics back FINALLY! (Long story) and am in the process of getting them online...hopefully by Wednesday or Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 The teams that have the best offensive line will be in the playoffs come December. End of discussion. 46169[/snapback] Don't forget the D-line! Those teams always make the playoffs unless something freakisly bad happens to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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