truth on hold Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 the play before norwood's field goal try there was a penalty on TE Keith McKellar that made the kick 47 instead of 42 yards. i remember at the time thinking that could quite possibly be the difference in the outcome of the game. consider that Norwood was never thought to be a strong-legged kicker and probably didn't have confidence in himself over 45 yards. there's a big difference at least psychologically between a 42 and 47 yard field goal and the stats i believe would bear this out. the problem is that norwood felt he had to get extra leg into the kick from 47 which would have a tendency to push the ball out to the right for a right footed kicker. this is exactly what happened. irony too is that the wind was behind him and he didn't need to give it any extra "oomph," the missed kick would have easily been good from 55 yards. does anyone remember the specific call on McKellar? i remember it was an unusual call that I had never heard before or since and that McKellar and other Bills were scratching their heads trying to figure out what he had done. for an official to make a call like that at that time was very unusual - some might say highly suspicious - and based on the above reasoning likely cost the bills the super bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I would be really interested to hear what the penalty called was. I was 7 at the time of that game and thus have no clear recollection of most of it. I also whole-heartedly agree with your statements regarding the psychological effects of moving the kick back five yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 If only Schneck were snapping. It would be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 If only Schneck were snapping. It would be a different story. 592143[/snapback] the snap and hold were good, woodie just pushed it a bit and it never turned over, that's all. happens when kickers don't have confidence they have enough leg to get it there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie Armstrong Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I dont think there was a penalty on McKellar or a penalty at all. Two plays before the kick, there was a replay to review a catch that McKellar made off the tip of his shoe. It was ruled a catch and the next play I think thurman ran one and then came the kick. If I'm wrong I'd like to know, because that 5 yards certainly could/would have made a difference both psychologically and physically for Norwood. When will they win one. 15 years later and I'm still breaking down Norwoods kick. Just one, thats all I want. The thing thats so hard about SB 25 is that you could sense victory the entire game. Even when the giants had lead at the end, and the bills started from about the 10 on the final drive, you knew they were going to move the ball down the field. That was the best team this organization has ever put on the field, and they were so fun to watch. I think about those losses a lot this time of year, as I'm sure all of you do. It reminds me we once had a dominant team, and I hope this new regime can restore some of the pride to the Bills that we've been missing for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 the snap and hold were good, woodie just pushed it a bit and it never turned over, that's all. happens when kickers don't have confidence they have enough leg to get it there 592146[/snapback] Actually, the hold was questionable IMO. They laces look either in or to the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Please stop this. I beg you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Actually, the hold was questionable IMO. They laces look either in or to the side. 592151[/snapback] yeah i think it was kind of holding call, but it was an obsure subset -- like he put his hand over the pad within 5 yards or something. very obscure and why did the official even pick that time of the game to bother looking for something like that which had no baring on the outcome of the play. unfortunately, did seem to have a huge baring on the outcome of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 I dont think there was a penalty on McKellar or a penalty at all. Two plays before the kick, there was a replay to review a catch that McKellar made off the tip of his shoe. It was ruled a catch and the next play I think thurman ran one and then came the kick. If I'm wrong I'd like to know, because that 5 yards certainly could/would have made a difference both psychologically and physically for Norwood.When will they win one. 15 years later and I'm still breaking down Norwoods kick. Just one, thats all I want. The thing thats so hard about SB 25 is that you could sense victory the entire game. Even when the giants had lead at the end, and the bills started from about the 10 on the final drive, you knew they were going to move the ball down the field. That was the best team this organization has ever put on the field, and they were so fun to watch. I think about those losses a lot this time of year, as I'm sure all of you do. It reminds me we once had a dominant team, and I hope this new regime can restore some of the pride to the Bills that we've been missing for a long time. 592150[/snapback] i think you're right it was 2 plays before the kick, not one, i dont remember if the last play was a run or throw, but i dont think it netted anything and then kelly spiked the ball to stop the clock. whether it was 1 or 2 plays before the kick i dont think matters, because in any case i dont see the bills doing anything that would have lost them yards, meaning the kick would have at most been 42 yards. and i think scottie was money from that distance -- he really fancied himself mr. accuracy, had a down-the-line style which favored accuracy over distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 LACES OUT!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gomper Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 OK sadists here's the final drive: 2:16 remaining 1-10 buf10-Kelly run in middle 8 yards (P.Johnson tackle) 2-2 buf18- (2:00)Kelly 1 yard run in middle (Howard) 3-1 buf19-(1:48)Thomas runs left 22 yards (Walls) 1-10 buf41-(1:20)Kelly pass to Reed 4 yards (Reasons) 2-6 buf45 (1:02)Kelly runs right 9 yards (Reasons) Buf TO 1-10 ny46 (:48)Kelly pass to McKeller 6 yards (Thompson),play halted at :29 for replay review 2-4 ny40 Thomas runs right 11 yards (Collins) 1-10 ny29 (:09)Kelly spikes ball to stop clock 2-10 ny29 (:08) Norwood 47 yard FG no good wide right it still hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 the play before norwood's field goal try there was a penalty on TE Keith McKellar that made the kick 47 instead of 42 yards. i remember at the time thinking that could quite possibly be the difference in the outcome of the game. consider that Norwood was never thought to be a strong-legged kicker and probably didn't have confidence in himself over 45 yards. there's a big difference at least psychologically between a 42 and 47 yard field goal and the stats i believe would bear this out. the problem is that norwood felt he had to get extra leg into the kick from 47 which would have a tendency to push the ball out to the right for a right footed kicker. this is exactly what happened. irony too is that the wind was behind him and he didn't need to give it any extra "oomph," the missed kick would have easily been good from 55 yards. does anyone remember the specific call on McKellar? i remember it was an unusual call that I had never heard before or since and that McKellar and other Bills were scratching their heads trying to figure out what he had done. for an official to make a call like that at that time was very unusual - some might say highly suspicious - and based on the above reasoning likely cost the bills the super bowl. 592098[/snapback] All of that is true. However, what separtes the good from the great is the mind. I certainly don't have it, hopefully I will get there. Many of us don't have the mind to compete at our top level when the pressure is on. The ones that do are fortunate in my opinion. I'm sure that there is a way to get to that level where you can block everything out and make the key play in the most pressure packed situation. How do you do that? I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 OK sadists here's the final drive:2:16 remaining 1-10 buf10-Kelly run in middle 8 yards (P.Johnson tackle) 2-2 buf18- (2:00)Kelly 1 yard run in middle (Howard) 3-1 buf19-(1:48)Thomas runs left 22 yards (Walls) 1-10 buf41-(1:20)Kelly pass to Reed 4 yards (Reasons) 2-6 buf45 (1:02)Kelly runs right 9 yards (Reasons) Buf TO 1-10 ny46 (:48)Kelly pass to McKeller 6 yards (Thompson),play halted at :29 for replay review 2-4 ny40 Thomas runs right 11 yards (Collins) 1-10 ny29 (:09)Kelly spikes ball to stop clock 2-10 ny29 (:08) Norwood 47 yard FG no good wide right it still hurts 592185[/snapback] ok, looks like i was partly wrong. mckellar was the victim of a critical & suspicious penalty call, but it happened late in the 3rd quarter not the 4th. and it was offensive pass interference, not holding. looks like it stopped the bills drive at a critical time and what made matters worse was a shanked punt. here's a link that examines the bills most crucial mistakes that game. the call on mckellar is in the box at the bottom: http://www.protrade.com/insight/InsightArt...sjardins%2F&x=x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBillsFan Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 it still hurts 592185[/snapback] So let's keep analysing it.....15 years later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Anyways, FWIW, here's my top five reasons you can't blame Scott Norwood for losing Super Bowl XXV: 5. The Bills abandoned the running game. Thurman was running wild, should have been the MVP, and should have been featured earlier in the game. 4. Lost chances. Due to Giant hits, Andre Reed suddenly afraid of going over the middle. Bruce does not swat the ball out of Hostetler’s paw in the end zone, resulting in a safety not a TD. 3. Mark Ingram’s (sp?) catch on third and forever. Kept a Giant TD drive alive as Ingram broke several tackles (most notably Shane Conlon). EDIT 2/6/06: I've since learned it was Talley and Odomes that whiffed on Ingram. 2. Marv Levy. Marv never had control of his troops when they invaded a Super Bowl city. Bills players have recently boasted of the partying in Tampa during the short Super Bowl week. 1. It was a loooooong FG attempt. On grass. 47 yards. Never known for a strong leg, the chances of Norwood making the kick were no more than 30 percent before the ball was even snapped. TSW link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 If I remember correctly, when we stopped them on 3rd and long to get the ball back, the team was himming and hawing whether or not to call a timeout, and it took about 15 seconds to finally do so. That was pretty uncharacteristic of Levy to not manage the clock correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Anyways, FWIW, here's my top five reasons you can't blame Scott Norwood for losing Super Bowl XXV: 5. The Bills abandoned the running game. Thurman was running wild, should have been the MVP, and should have been featured earlier in the game. every system has it's pluses and minuses. in this case, not using thomas even though he was the bills most potent weapon was the result of the bills no-huddle offense where kelly called the plays on the field at the line. like most QB's in their first super bowl, the guy's mind was on throwing the ball and winning it with his arm. in this day of headsets inside QB helmets, the coaches probably get him to hand it off more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 5. The Bills abandoned the running game. Thurman was running wild, should have been the MVP, and should have been featured earlier in the game.[/url] 592203[/snapback] Replace "Bills" with "Kelly" and I'd say that was the biggest reason, but that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyebrian Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I dont think there was a penalty on McKellar or a penalty at all. Two plays before the kick, there was a replay to review a catch that McKellar made off the tip of his shoe. It was ruled a catch and the next play I think thurman ran one and then came the kick. If I'm wrong I'd like to know, because that 5 yards certainly could/would have made a difference both psychologically and physically for Norwood.When will they win one. 15 years later and I'm still breaking down Norwoods kick. Just one, thats all I want. The thing thats so hard about SB 25 is that you could sense victory the entire game. Even when the giants had lead at the end, and the bills started from about the 10 on the final drive, you knew they were going to move the ball down the field. That was the best team this organization has ever put on the field, and they were so fun to watch. I think about those losses a lot this time of year, as I'm sure all of you do. It reminds me we once had a dominant team, and I hope this new regime can restore some of the pride to the Bills that we've been missing for a long time. 592150[/snapback] I remember thinking I would rather have the time saved had McKellar dropped that ball than the I yard we gained from his catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 the snap and hold were good, woodie just pushed it a bit and it never turned over, that's all. happens when kickers don't have confidence they have enough leg to get it there 592146[/snapback] I was kidding. Really. Why do people still discuss this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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