sven233 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I have posted several times stating that I would build from the O-LINE and D-LINE out. I have expressed interest in the past of siging some very high priced FAs for the O-LINE and have been mocked because of salary cap reasons. People wew saying I was dreaming and the line I wanted to put together they said was impossible. And, they are all legit reasons on th surface. I am here tonight to show you that it is possible. If I were given a clean slate and was allowed to build a team, this is how I would allocate the salary cap dollars. This demonstartion is rough, but you will see the concept. I am basing these numbers on the 2006 Salary cap number which is expected to be about 90 Million dollars. Here we go: OFFENSIVE LINE - This is the foundation to my plan and where the most money will be allocated to any starters. To make the numbers simple, I have allocated an average of 5 Million per position (some postions may be more....OT and C......and some may be sleightly less....OG). However, to make this simple, I am using a 5 MILL average for each O-LINE POSITION. THIS WILL ALLOW FOR A DOMINATING O-LINE. Again, this is the FOUNDATION to a winning team! LT - 5 MILL LG - 5 MILL C - 5 MILL RG - 5 MILL RT - 5 MILL SKILLED POSITIONS - I truly believe that if you have a STUD O-LINE in place, you don't need SUPERSTARS at the skilled positions. All the QBs, RBs, TEs, and WRs that are in the NFL are there for a reason. THEY HAVE TALENT! ANY QB can throw the ball accurately if they get time to throw. All the RBs can run the ball if there are holes to run through. All TEs and WRs can get open if they have time to develop the routes. With this said, based on my plan and structure, average, or sleightly above average, players at these positions will get the job done. I firmly believe SPEED is the key at all of these positions. I will take guys with sleightly less talent at these positions as long as they have speed. They might not be able to cut back or bounce as well....or run as crisp of routes as the SUPERSTARS, BUT with my SUPERSTAR/STUD O-LINE, they can be sleightly less than perfect, but still be just as effective because of the time they will have. The QB will have all day to throw which allows him the time he needs instead of having to make the quick and decisive decisions (that is where QBs in this league are separated....SOME READ FASTER THAN OTHERS AND THUS ARE PAID MORE). In my scheme, an average QB will have the opportunity to look great (JP is a perfect example of this.....takes him a little longer to read defenses, but he will have time behind my STUD O-LINE and has the SPEED to make something happen if nothing is open...perfect for my offense). As I stated earlier, SPEED is the key at the other positions and you can find guys with enough talent to get the job done at the prices I outline below. REMEMBER, A GREAT O-LINE WILL MAKE AVERAGE PEOPLE AT THE SKILLED POSITIONS LOOK GREAT. QB - 4 MILL RB - 3 MILL TE - 2 MILL WR - 3 MILL WR - 3 MILL WR - 3 MILL DEFENSIVE LINE - Same thing applies here as with the offense.....BUILD FROM THE LINE OUT. IF you can stop the run and GET substantial pressure with your FRONT 4, YOU WILL MAKE THE REST OF THE DEFENSE LOOK GREAT!!!!! IF you only give a QB 3-4 seconds to throw, you can change the game. With this said, my D-LINE will average 4 MILL per position. You can get some great talent for 4 MILL per position. DL - 4 MILL DL - 4 MILL DL - 4 MILL DL - 4 MILL LINEBACKERS - I still see this as a fairly important position. You must eliminate the run game and have very athletic LBs. With that said, you don't have to have SUPERSTARS, but you must have SPEED and solid players. With that said, a good LB core can be had for about 3 MILL per linebacker. You can be VERY good at LB for that price. LB - 3 MILL LB - 3 MILL LB - 3 MILL SECONDARY - With a solid SOLID and FAST front 7, you take a lot of pressure of your secondary. If you can get to the QB in a hurry and eliminate the run game, you make the secondary's job a lot easier. With that said, I get 2 SOLID corners.....again, not SUPERSTARS, but SOLID CORNERS (2 TERRANCE MCGEE type playes would be good here) I have allocated 3 MILL per CB in this plan (actually more than necessary, but they are important and you can get VERY GOOD, not great, corners at this price). I allocated 2 MILL a piece for each of the safety positions. Again, SPEED is the most important factor here. They don't have to be the most talented guys with the front 7 I have in place at this point (GONNA GET TO THE QB FAST AND STOP THE RUN). You will have a VERY SOLID defense if structured this way. CB - 3 MILL CB - 3 MILL FS - 2 MILL SS - 2 MILL That takes care of the starters. That leaves 31 palyers for the backups to complete your team. That will give you your 53 man roster. Personally, I wouldn't field 53 guys....I really think you could get by on 48-50, but for this example, we will use the full 53 man roster. Backups would make up on average 1 MILL a piece (Some Vets making sleightly more and some younger players making less). That would add up to 31 MILL for the backups. 78 MILL for the STARTERS 31 MILL for the BACKUPS 109 MILL TOTAL Now, I know the Cap is 90 MILL, but remember how contracts are structured. You use bonus money up front to lessen the base salaries and will bring the Cap numbers down to the required number. For example, the Redskins last year had about 128 Mill invested in their team but were still under the 85 Mill Cap. So, 109 is NO PROBLEM at all. Through the years, the Cap number will increase along with contracts, but as long as you follow this bacic formula, you will always be competitive and a winner. Sure, maybe you will have an average year now and then due to the backends of some contracts, but as far as I am concerned, I will take 5 GREAT years for every 1 Average or even Bad year. I know this is just a rough outline, and it might not even be that simple, but it really isn't that much harder than this. I'd like to get some feedback on this plan. Again, I know there is more to it than this, but the purpose of this post was to show the winning formula for building a football team. It probably can't be done EXACTLY like this, but this syestem can be put into place with little modification. THIS SYSTEM IS DEFINATELY REALISTIC. THIS IS HOW I WOULD BUILD A WINNING FOOTBALL TEAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Keep in mind I wrote this at 2AM. Might not be perfect, but reading it this morning, it DOES make sense! HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turftoe Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 You forgot to add in the 2 cents for the cost of your analysis. I think that now puts us over the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Nope.....I'll work for free......I just love the Bills and football in general....no need for that 2 cents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Your concept if fine, but don't think realistic. You'll never get any kind of good skill players for that kind of $$. Granted, I agree with you that with a good line, you don't need the best RB or WR, but I think your number are too low, particually when you include backups. On the otherhand I do think you over spent on the O-line so may get some extra $$'s from there. The other problem yu'll run into is a guy like Preston signs his first contract within your numbers, But if he becomes any good, his next contract would put him over your allowable. I've always felt though that you're better off signing the best safety or best center in the league as you can aquire top level talent at those positions for less money than the top RB or top QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Keep in mind I wrote this at 2AM. Might not be perfect, but reading it this morning, it DOES make sense! HA! 561001[/snapback] Makes way too much sense for some of the nitwits around here... you know, the ones who, given the chance, would still take Young, Bush, or Leinhart. I agree and have always said that with a stout O-line, your skill positions will take care of themselves with not much more than average talent. If you're get lucky enough to get great talent with later round picks, all the better. Granted, it would be nice to have an Elway, Manning, or Kelly type of QB to be the field general. They're gonna get you those one or two close games or 4th quarter comebacks that could mean the difference between home field and a wild card berth. Top flight O-line = ball control, clock control, resting the defense, & scoring points. How many more games could the Bills have won if they'd been able to get TDs instead of settling for FGs? They'd have more TDs if they could run the ball inside the red zone. To do this, you need the beef up front since you can't spread the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I may be oversimplifying this - but you outlined the average salaries for the starters only. Aren't there 21 other players on the squad that you did not account for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Makes way too much sense for some of the nitwits around here... you know, the ones who, given the chance, would still take Young, Bush, or Leinhart.I agree and have always said that with a stout O-line, your skill positions will take care of themselves with not much more than average talent. If you're get lucky enough to get great talent with later round picks, all the better. 561025[/snapback] As a nitwit, I would like to respond. Your $25 million O-line leaves $65 million for the other 48 guys on the team. But since we are borrowing against the future by going up into the $110 mil range, (and we're using $78 mil on starters), we are leaving $53 mil for our other 18 starters. That is $2.9 mil per player. Bye bye TKO, hello Josh Stamer. Oh, but I forgot, our O-line is going to turn Sam Aiken into an unstoppable touchdown machine. What happens when our Jonas Jennings-esque $5 million lineman plays only 3 games? The message boards will be crying about how your squad has no depth because you mortgaged all the money in the starters. You also shouldn't have written that you thought your team could get by with 48-50 guys. That didn't add any credibility to your argument. Your team better win THIS year, cause you're going to have some cutting to do. But I'm sure a few of those $450K backups can step right in. Sven, I hate to tear on this plan, because I don't have the time or desire to put that much thought into something of my own. You obviously did some thinking on this, and I commend that. However, it leaves out a lot of variables. And, I just can't fathom putting that much money into your line when the position has such a high rate of injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 The general theory of building through the offensive line is something that almost anyone on this board will agree with. But I'm not sure that means throwing boatloads of money at the position. I can't do a detailed study of this, but anecdotally, it seems that many big-money free agents (Runyan sticks out in my head) don't perform as well in their new place. Teams with the best lines have two things going for them. The first is schemes. Denver, New England, etc. can rotate rookies in and out of the line-up without missing a beat. It doesn't seem like we can ever spend enough to make our team as good as theirs. The second is continuity. Seattle, Indianapolis, etc. have had the same group of lineman playing alongside each other for years. Indy had Tarik Glenn in place even before the drafted Manning. Their tackles and center have been playing together for five years. Hutch and Jones in Sea have been there five years, too. That's why I think the best thing we can do is set our line this offseason, maybe something like Peters, Preston, Bentley, Gandy, and a second rounder, and let them grow together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 News Flash! Dollars do not make tackles, run or pass the ball, etc. Really...honest...I've watched LOTS of football games and have NEVER seen a pile of money on the field when the whistle blew. Teams are built by looking and analyzing PLAYERS...not the cash by position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 maybe something like Peters, Preston, Bentley, Gandy, and a second rounder, and let them grow together. 561067[/snapback] Isn't that pretty much the Tom Donahoe school of thought that brought us an average of 6 wins per season during his 5-year tenure as GM? You CAN'T have a succesful team without excellence in the trenches. There's NEVER been a championship team that had "just adequate" offensive and defensive lines. NEVER!!!! Peters exceeded expectations and MAY be a good one, but he's still learning the position and until he shows improvement and consistency, I wouldn't be ready to pencil him in as a pro-bowler. Preston, who everyone is so high on, may be alright, but it's still a huge unknown. Gandy blows - 'nuff said. An unknown job trainee second rounder and Bentley (have no idea who that is) round out the front 5? Doesn't sound like a formula for a team trying to get to the superbowl. Sounds more like a quickly assembled line for a team experiencing a bad cap year. I pray we don't wind up with an offensive line anything like what you're suggesting. It's exactly the kind of line we've had over the past 10 years. Better hope Bentley - whoever that is - is a superstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 News Flash! Dollars do not make tackles, run or pass the ball, etc. Really...honest...I've watched LOTS of football games and have NEVER seen a pile of money on the field when the whistle blew. Teams are built by looking and analyzing PLAYERS...not the cash by position. 561105[/snapback] I disagree. 4MILL is the best QB in the league!. And 5MILL might be the one of the best left tackles I've ever seen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Isn't that pretty much the Tom Donahoe school of thought that brought us an average of 6 wins per season during his 5-year tenure as GM? You CAN'T have a succesful team without excellence in the trenches. There's NEVER been a championship team that had "just adequate" offensive and defensive lines. NEVER!!!! Peters exceeded expectations and MAY be a good one, but he's still learning the position and until he shows improvement and consistency, I wouldn't be ready to pencil him in as a pro-bowler. Preston, who everyone is so high on, may be alright, but it's still a huge unknown. Gandy blows - 'nuff said. An unknown job trainee second rounder and Bentley (have no idea who that is) round out the front 5? Doesn't sound like a formula for a team trying to get to the superbowl. Sounds more like a quickly assembled line for a team experiencing a bad cap year. I pray we don't wind up with an offensive line anything like what you're suggesting. It's exactly the kind of line we've had over the past 10 years. Better hope Bentley - whoever that is - is a superstar. 561117[/snapback] Despite analysis like "Gandy blows," I disagree with every last thing you write. This was not Donahoe's philosophy because we have not had the same group of players playing together for any length of time. This year, we started with two new faces - Gandy and Bennie, and added a third fresh face - Peters. In 2004, when we started Jennings, Tucker, Teague, Villarial, and Big Mike, four of the five having played for the team the prior year, we had the best line of the Donahoe era. This sounds like a quickly-assembled line for 2006. Then again, we won't be competing for a Super Bowl in 2006. In 2007 and beyond, it will seem like a seasoned, experienced line that plays like a unit. Peters may not be a pro-bowler. Then again, only one of the four pro-bowl starting tackles will be playing this week, so maybe that isn't so important. And I don't mean to tell you stuff I'm sure you already know, but Indy and NE have exactly one Pro Bowl lineman between them. Denver has zero. But that's the whole point of my post. Great lines don't come from great players. They come from continuity and schemes. And you should really know by now who LeCharles Bentley is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 You have to ralize with this plan, I am not taking into consideration new, upproven players. The reason my O-Line is so expensive is because I am getting these guys through FA. THEY ARE ALREADY PROVEN GUYS THAT ARE CURRENT STARS IN THE LEAGUE. And I disagree with your points that guys might not be as good in some places as others.....For example, Orlando Pace or Walter Jones or other STUD OT will be A STUD tackle whereever they are. TALENT and ABILITY don't suddenly disappear because they are in a new place. Also, you have to realize that they will have other STUD linemen next to them making them that much more dominant. And, you say that average talent at WR won't get it done.....well, I know that Lee Evans is not making 3 MILL per year yet....You give me 3 LEE EVANS type players at my WR positions and YOU WILL BE JUST FINE.....In fact, to go 1 better, if you went with 3 ROSCOE PARRISH types at the WR positions with this line, you would be fine. Remember, you can't coach speed and those guys are talented enough to get the job done. Also, I did explain that the backup positions are, on average, making 1 Mill a piece. That allows for a few quality backups at certain positions....but remember, in this case, even if a Josh Stamer had to step in due to injury, you won't be hurth that much because of the way the team is built. Granted, if you got a bunch of starters injured, you might have some problems, but if you stayed relatively healthy, you will be in great shape. And yes, I am hurting the future a little bit with the way the cap is structured here. But like I said above....I would gladly tak 4-5 WINNING YEARS for every 1 BAD year. I would do it in a heartbeat because the goal is to WIN the SUPERBOWL. And I do believe you HAVE TO GO FOR IT. If that means a 6-10 year every 5 years, I have no problem with that.....But, if you can make and sometimes with the Superbowl 1 time in 5 years........I'll take the losing year. Maybe some of you wouldn't, but I would take 10 losing seasons in a row for 1 Superbowl WIN! I appreciate the feedback guys. I know the plan is NOT perefect, but what I am saying is that if you follow this line of thinking, you will be a lot more successful than investing tons of money in skilled positions. Oh....and 1 more thing.....why do you necessarily need 53 players? There are some that never play in a single game. There is NO reason you couldn't use just 50 players. No reason at all. But I knew some may not agree with that. That is why I built this plan on using 53 players. Anyways, thanks for the feedback guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 And I disagree with your points that guys might not be as good in some places as others.....For example, Orlando Pace or Walter Jones or other STUD OT will be A STUD tackle whereever they are. TALENT and ABILITY don't suddenly disappear because they are in a new place. Also, you have to realize that they will have other STUD linemen next to them making them that much more dominant. 561188[/snapback] It's hard to prove tat because players at the level of Jones and Pace rarely switch teams. For example, Jones and Pace have never switched teams. The ones that do switch are generally a level below and do not always perform as well. If I had to win one game, I'd pick the Denver Oline, with all their years together, over this year's All Pro line, having never played a snap together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackur Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 spend more time sleeping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 560692[/snapback] A great discussion you've started, sven. You need to post more often. Here's my own take on building a football team. I've ranked the positions by the amount of cap money I'd allocate for them. Interpret this as a general bluprint for success. I didn't bother with the specifics of the money to spend, since it always comes down to the laws of supply and demand for each position in each offseason. Also, I'm only including the starters because I believe the backups that round out a full 53-man roster should be filled only by draft picks still under their first contract or vets playing at the vet minimum: 1. DT's 2. OT's 3. DE's 4. C 5. OG's 6. RB 7. CB's 8. WR's 9. OLB's (standard 4-3 def.) 10. MLB (standard 4-3 def.) 11. QB 12. TE 13. SS 14. FS 15. K 16. FB (standard pro set form.) 17. P 18. LS (usually a backup TE or o-lineman will suffice) My opinion of the OL and DL is very similar to yours, sven. The only truly "weird" thing about my list, I suppose (aside from my high value placement on the C and G's), is my value of the QB position. That's because the definition of "talent" for this position is so complex and so vague that you can find a solid starter here more easily in the later rounds of the draft or the free agent bargain bin than at any other position...with a caveat: you must know EXACTLY what type of offense you're running and exactly what type of personality you need commanding the other offensive personalities on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I have posted several times stating that I would build from the O-LINE and D-LINE out. I have expressed interest in the past of siging some very high priced FAs for the O-LINE and have been mocked because of salary cap reasons. People wew saying I was dreaming and the line I wanted to put together they said was impossible. And, they are all legit reasons on th surface. I am here tonight to show you that it is possible. If I were given a clean slate and was allowed to build a team, this is how I would allocate the salary cap dollars. This demonstartion is rough, but you will see the concept. I am basing these numbers on the 2006 Salary cap number which is expected to be about 90 Million dollars. Here we go: OFFENSIVE LINE - This is the foundation to my plan and where the most money will be allocated to any starters. To make the numbers simple, I have allocated an average of 5 Million per position (some postions may be more....OT and C......and some may be sleightly less....OG). However, to make this simple, I am using a 5 MILL average for each O-LINE POSITION. THIS WILL ALLOW FOR A DOMINATING O-LINE. Again, this is the FOUNDATION to a winning team! LT - 5 MILL LG - 5 MILL C - 5 MILL RG - 5 MILL RT - 5 MILL SKILLED POSITIONS - I truly believe that if you have a STUD O-LINE in place, you don't need SUPERSTARS at the skilled positions. All the QBs, RBs, TEs, and WRs that are in the NFL are there for a reason. THEY HAVE TALENT! ANY QB can throw the ball accurately if they get time to throw. All the RBs can run the ball if there are holes to run through. All TEs and WRs can get open if they have time to develop the routes. With this said, based on my plan and structure, average, or sleightly above average, players at these positions will get the job done. I firmly believe SPEED is the key at all of these positions. I will take guys with sleightly less talent at these positions as long as they have speed. They might not be able to cut back or bounce as well....or run as crisp of routes as the SUPERSTARS, BUT with my SUPERSTAR/STUD O-LINE, they can be sleightly less than perfect, but still be just as effective because of the time they will have. The QB will have all day to throw which allows him the time he needs instead of having to make the quick and decisive decisions (that is where QBs in this league are separated....SOME READ FASTER THAN OTHERS AND THUS ARE PAID MORE). In my scheme, an average QB will have the opportunity to look great (JP is a perfect example of this.....takes him a little longer to read defenses, but he will have time behind my STUD O-LINE and has the SPEED to make something happen if nothing is open...perfect for my offense). As I stated earlier, SPEED is the key at the other positions and you can find guys with enough talent to get the job done at the prices I outline below. REMEMBER, A GREAT O-LINE WILL MAKE AVERAGE PEOPLE AT THE SKILLED POSITIONS LOOK GREAT. QB - 4 MILL RB - 3 MILL TE - 2 MILL WR - 3 MILL WR - 3 MILL WR - 3 MILL DEFENSIVE LINE - Same thing applies here as with the offense.....BUILD FROM THE LINE OUT. IF you can stop the run and GET substantial pressure with your FRONT 4, YOU WILL MAKE THE REST OF THE DEFENSE LOOK GREAT!!!!! IF you only give a QB 3-4 seconds to throw, you can change the game. With this said, my D-LINE will average 4 MILL per position. You can get some great talent for 4 MILL per position. DL - 4 MILL DL - 4 MILL DL - 4 MILL DL - 4 MILL LINEBACKERS - I still see this as a fairly important position. You must eliminate the run game and have very athletic LBs. With that said, you don't have to have SUPERSTARS, but you must have SPEED and solid players. With that said, a good LB core can be had for about 3 MILL per linebacker. You can be VERY good at LB for that price. LB - 3 MILL LB - 3 MILL LB - 3 MILL SECONDARY - With a solid SOLID and FAST front 7, you take a lot of pressure of your secondary. If you can get to the QB in a hurry and eliminate the run game, you make the secondary's job a lot easier. With that said, I get 2 SOLID corners.....again, not SUPERSTARS, but SOLID CORNERS (2 TERRANCE MCGEE type playes would be good here) I have allocated 3 MILL per CB in this plan (actually more than necessary, but they are important and you can get VERY GOOD, not great, corners at this price). I allocated 2 MILL a piece for each of the safety positions. Again, SPEED is the most important factor here. They don't have to be the most talented guys with the front 7 I have in place at this point (GONNA GET TO THE QB FAST AND STOP THE RUN). You will have a VERY SOLID defense if structured this way. CB - 3 MILL CB - 3 MILL FS - 2 MILL SS - 2 MILL That takes care of the starters. That leaves 31 palyers for the backups to complete your team. That will give you your 53 man roster. Personally, I wouldn't field 53 guys....I really think you could get by on 48-50, but for this example, we will use the full 53 man roster. Backups would make up on average 1 MILL a piece (Some Vets making sleightly more and some younger players making less). That would add up to 31 MILL for the backups. 78 MILL for the STARTERS 31 MILL for the BACKUPS 109 MILL TOTAL Now, I know the Cap is 90 MILL, but remember how contracts are structured. You use bonus money up front to lessen the base salaries and will bring the Cap numbers down to the required number. For example, the Redskins last year had about 128 Mill invested in their team but were still under the 85 Mill Cap. So, 109 is NO PROBLEM at all. Through the years, the Cap number will increase along with contracts, but as long as you follow this bacic formula, you will always be competitive and a winner. Sure, maybe you will have an average year now and then due to the backends of some contracts, but as far as I am concerned, I will take 5 GREAT years for every 1 Average or even Bad year. I know this is just a rough outline, and it might not even be that simple, but it really isn't that much harder than this. I'd like to get some feedback on this plan. Again, I know there is more to it than this, but the purpose of this post was to show the winning formula for building a football team. It probably can't be done EXACTLY like this, but this syestem can be put into place with little modification. THIS SYSTEM IS DEFINATELY REALISTIC. THIS IS HOW I WOULD BUILD A WINNING FOOTBALL TEAM. 560692[/snapback] That's good balance but unrealistic. The are going to be positions where you're going to want to get better or stay the best. This will command top dollars. There are some positions where you have to let young players compete at an open position. They won't be commanding the couple of millions. A star quarterback in this league is averaging a lot more than 4 million dollars a year. If I could get a Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer quarterback on our team I would pay top dollar for them and rework the cap in a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Peters exceeded expectations and MAY be a good one, but he's still learning the position and until he shows improvement and consistency, I wouldn't be ready to pencil him in as a pro-bowler.561117[/snapback] Seriously! Donahoe had 5 years, how come we don't have 5 Pro Bowl lineman??? BTW, Denver's O-line is cheap, undersized, and is made up of zero Pro Bowlers. Oh yeah, and they were 100 yds away from having two 1000 yard rushers. Gandy blows - 'nuff said. 561117[/snapback] Sounds like solid analysis from a guy who made up his mind in training camp that Gandy blows. Had you paid attention, you would've noticed he was the most durable, consistent O-lineman. Nobody owned Gandy during the year. Jason Taylor had a good game in Buffalo (2 sacks) and was virtually invisible the next time they played in Miami. Bentley (have no idea who that is) 561117[/snapback] 'Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Pyramid scheme. ok, so you shrug off 109m in spending over a cap of 80m by arguing for bonuses pushing the deficit into the future. Fine. So if that is your approach, where do you account for the dead money on the books from previous years of doing this? I don't see it in your estimates. And I should add that Mould's contract, for example, is not a problem because we pay him too much. It is a problem because we repeatedly restructured it to push money down the road. Most of the money to be charged against him was actually paid long ago. So the point is that if you play accounting cap games like you advocate, all those "5m" linemen on the books will actually be making much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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