CosmicBills Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 What's that again? 556450[/snapback] Young was impressive last night. Clearly a brilliant performance and a great college player. However, do you all really think he is going to be able to do that in the NFL? The guy cannot throw and NFL defenders will be faster than him unlike the UCLA defense last night. So where do you put him? WR? RB? If you plan on him being your QB you are looking at at least 3 years of development time. He is not as good in the open field as Vick was in college and Vick had a much better arm (which is scary since Vick to this day is terribly inaccurate). Young, Leinert and Bush all are going to be busts in the NFL. I said it, and stand by it. They will have some success, but won't live up to their hype. Leinert doesn't have the velocity to make all the throws needed, and how could anyone justify using a number one overall pick on a guy who has never been an every down player (like Bush). In my opion, White was the most impressive running back on the field last night for the Trojans. Don't misunderstand me, all three of these guys are physical specimines and tremendous college athletes with poise and leadership abilities. The performance by Young last night will be long remembered. However, none of them (Young included) have the total package to be superstars at their positions in the NFL. (I'm not trying to be argumentitive, just wondering if other people see what I see or if I'm just crazy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Um...but he can't throw. So what is he going to do in the NFL? Be a running QB? At least Vick and McNabb could throw the football when they came out. Of course, Vick can't throw it very well, but he is still head and shoulders above Young. Young is a player without a position in the pro game. Bush is a 2 down player who isn't big enough to last in the NFL. He's Warrick Dunn plus one Leinert doesn't have the zip in his arm to be anything more than a so-so pro. 556207[/snapback] Looked like he could throw to me. Just throws weird. Didn't he lead the nation in passing efficiency? Anyway, guess we'll see in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 Damn, if guys like that are already figured to be a bust, how the frig did we end up with Losman? What were the scouts thinking? I don't recall ever seeing any kind of film on ole JP that even compares to that kind of a performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Vince Young = Ticket Sales + TV Ratings at least until he busts , but I think he may be worth the risk. If you hit with him, you hit big. I may not take him over a Reggie Bush or a Mario Williams, but I sure as hell would take him over any LT named D'Brickshaw or any other OL. If I'm a pro team in Texas, he's mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Young was impressive last night. Clearly a brilliant performance and a great college player. However, do you all really think he is going to be able to do that in the NFL? The guy cannot throw and NFL defenders will be faster than him unlike the UCLA defense last night. So where do you put him? WR? RB? If you plan on him being your QB you are looking at at least 3 years of development time. He is not as good in the open field as Vick was in college and Vick had a much better arm (which is scary since Vick to this day is terribly inaccurate). Young, Leinert and Bush all are going to be busts in the NFL. I said it, and stand by it. They will have some success, but won't live up to their hype. Leinert doesn't have the velocity to make all the throws needed, and how could anyone justify using a number one overall pick on a guy who has never been an every down player (like Bush). In my opion, White was the most impressive running back on the field last night for the Trojans. Don't misunderstand me, all three of these guys are physical specimines and tremendous college athletes with poise and leadership abilities. The performance by Young last night will be long remembered. However, none of them (Young included) have the total package to be superstars at their positions in the NFL. (I'm not trying to be argumentitive, just wondering if other people see what I see or if I'm just crazy) 556455[/snapback] Well, my " " were to the comment regarding Bush: "I'm not even sure he is the best back on the USC squad. " That's just silly. Now here's what I think: I think Bush will be fine in the NFL. Great? Who knows...but, he can play the game and will do well enough. He is Gayle Sayers-like...but, maybe Gayle wouldn't be great in today's NFL (yeah...right). But, Sayers did not have a long NFL career, remember. To me, drafting a back is a low risk proposition. The break-in time is short (you see what you got pretty quick) and there are fewer adjustments. But, good backs ae pretty common. With a great line and a good scheme, look at what backs do on Denver and KC. For a team that needs a back, Bush is worth a high pick. I don't believe Young or Leinert are high 1st round quality QBs. Neither of these guys have the upside of JP Losman, IMO. Leinert MIGHT turn out to be fine...but, he's got too many question marks for a high #1, IMO. There are few QBs who I think are no-brainers. Peyton was one, Eli was one. (It was clear to me that Roethlisberger had the skills...but he wasn't a "can't miss"...turns out he was.) I think Young is good enough to be a HUGE star in the NFL...but at what position? Michael Vick is a HUGE star in the NFL...but is he a great QB? As I said earlier, if a team with real IMAGINATION (and the surrounding talent to actually make it work) gets him...watch out. But, what is likely to happen is...a team drafts him and then spends the next three years trying to get him NOT to run and to throw from the pocket. Sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Only topped 1,000 yards in less than half the years he played in the league. Those are not HOF numbers. Dunn is good, not great. Bush will be good, not great -- certainly not "the best ever" and certainly not worth the money he will be paid as a No 1 or 2 pick. 556372[/snapback] last i checked, yards from scrimmage is the key stat. check that out on the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Chinfist Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I don't understand how some people here are automatically dismissing Bush as not having a chance to be a superstar. I think he will be awesome in the NFL, assuming he at least has an average offensive line or even a slightly below average line (it would be difficult for any running back to be a superstar without at least an average line). He has the moves, the speed, the vision, and the athleticism. Although this is subjective, but he has the "body language" of the Juice when he carries the ball. He runs with poise and authority. He just looks like O.J. out there. Yeah, I believe he has a good chance to be a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Kiper How much attention do scouts give to a single-game performance, like what Vince Young did in the Rose Bowl? Last night was huge. I spoke to some NFL people after the game and they were excited. Vince Young was the difference maker. He was Texas' Superman, he was extraordinary. And he did it against a USC team that was trying to do something unprecedented and win three straight national championships. Young was the main reason Texas won that football game. They were down by 12 points and he made all the plays. To do what he did in a pressure-packed situation gives Young all the momentum going into the (draft) process. What's happened to Matt Leinart the last three to five weeks? People have been critical of him. I've heard more criticism of Leinart in the last month than I've heard in three years. What people want to do when a player stays around so long, they start picking you apart. I'm a big supporter of Leinart and he's going to be a great NFL quarterback, but you keep hearing people pick him apart and that's what will happen with Young if goes back to Texas for his senior season. They'll start finding reasons not to like him next year. Young is flying high right now. He has more momentum than any prospect I can remember in a long time. He has more momentum right now than Reggie Bush. If you don't take Young No. 1, fans are going to ask questions -- especially to the Texans. Young is a local kid from Houston. I talked to a radio station in Houston and they want Vince Young. There is pressure on the Texans to take Young (if he comes out). Next year, that won't be the case because we won't know who has the first pick. In fact, we don't know anything about next year. Young will be without his tight end, David Thomas (10 catches in the Rose Bowl) and his left tackle will be in the NFL. Young could be in the Heisman mix next year, but so will Brady Quinn and Adrian Peterson. Going back you risk injuries and there are no guarantees. Young will lose all the momentum that he's built up. Right now it is a three-horse race to see who is going to be the first pick in the draft between Young, Leinart and Bush. Nothing is clear cut. The Texans have a huge roster bonus they owe David Carr on March 1. They could let Carr move on or trade him and draft Young. There are a lot of things the Texans are going to determine about how the early portion of the draft goes. Can Young's stock be any higher than it is right now? His stock cannot be any higher right now. Remember, he can't go to an all-star game because juniors can't play in them. Young doesn't have to work out at the combine. He can show up for the medical and interviews, but doesn't have to throw the ball. He can wait until an individual workout and throw. You may only see one day of Vince Young workouts between now and April 29. He did enough on the field in the Rose Bowl to say, "You saw me, now make the decision as to whether I am good enough." Right now Vince Young is flying as high as high as any prospect I can remember at this stage of the process, outside of maybe John Elway. What are the negatives about Vince Young? He has an unorthodox delivery. You don't know if he can drop back with a five- or seven-step drop, plant his foot and throw the ball because Young doesn't have to do that at Texas. He has all day to throw and when he is pressured, he can slide side to side. With Leinart we know about his drop-back passing skills, but we're not sure if Young can be precise, accurate and make the right reads and decisions. With that said, he has a quick release and stronger arm than Leinart. He's the next Michael Vick running with the football. His decision-making improved greatly this year and I thought he made only one questionable throw in the Rose Bowl. Any questions that were out there about Young have been put on the back burner because he was so spectacular against USC. He was calm, cool and poised. Assuming he turns pro, where was Vince Young in the draft process before the Rose Bowl and where is he now? Before the game, Young would have been anywhere from third to seventh and now he is possibly No. 1. If Young comes out, he will now be one of the top three picks, more likely No. 2 and maybe the first pick in the draft. Assuming he comes out, Young made himself a lot of money with his performance in the Rose Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 Assuming he comes out, Young made himself a lot of money with his performance in the Rose Bowl Bingo. When the NFL ceased to be about the game, and became the consumer draw a player like that is worth a lot of money. Geeze, an example might be...Buffalo? Toss a few million at him and you make 3 times as much back even if he's a bust. If he succeeds, it's a gold mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Bingo. When the NFL ceased to be about the game, and became the consumer draw a player like that is worth a lot of money. Geeze, an example might be...Buffalo? Toss a few million at him and you make 3 times as much back even if he's a bust. If he succeeds, it's a gold mine. 556544[/snapback] Totally agree. Like I said above, if you hit with him, you hit big. Tough decision for sure, but sometimes you have to roll the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 Totally agree. Like I said above, if you hit with him, you hit big. Tough decision for sure, but sometimes you have to roll the dice. 556556[/snapback] Something I've never seen posted, though it's been discussed, is just how much money has been made off the Bills in the last few years. Actual profit. Net, not gross. Never will get a true answer, but it would be fun to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Something I've never seen posted, though it's been discussed, is just how much money has been made off the Bills in the last few years. Actual profit. Net, not gross. Never will get a true answer, but it would be fun to know. 556570[/snapback] Whatever it is, it's never enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Vince Young = Ticket Sales + TV Ratingsat least until he busts , but I think he may be worth the risk. If you hit with him, you hit big. I may not take him over a Reggie Bush or a Mario Williams, but I sure as hell would take him over any LT named D'Brickshaw or any other OL. If I'm a pro team in Texas, he's mine. 556480[/snapback] Since you've never identified your actual team to us here, now might be a tremendous opportunity. Maybe you can just give us Bill's fans a hint- how about "what selection does Rico the Troll's team have in the 2006 draft at this time?". Let me work it out from there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Since you've never identified your actual team to us here, now might be a tremendous opportunity. Maybe you can just give us Bill's fans a hint- how about "what selection does Rico the Troll's team have in the 2006 draft at this time?". Let me work it out from there! Trolling again, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Trolling again, are you? 556752[/snapback] Always refreshing to see catostomids like you and Rico sucking up to each other ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Always refreshing to see catostomids like you and Rico sucking up to each other ;-) I just wonder why you have so much trouble being civil to other human beings on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Since you've never identified your actual team to us here, now might be a tremendous opportunity. Maybe you can just give us Bill's fans a hint- how about "what selection does Rico the Troll's team have in the 2006 draft at this time?". Let me work it out from there! 556736[/snapback] AKC's 1st Job With the Circus ""Now I'm happy as a little GIIIIIRL." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I just wonder why you have so much trouble being civil to other human beings on this board. 557153[/snapback] I have no problem being civil to "human beings". It's scumpuppet Trolls with derogatory names that deserve nothing from anyone in this forum, and the even lower form of life that are trolls like your buddy who try to hide the fact that he's a troll altogether. If you're looking for civility you might try a Patriot's board, but then why would they be interested in your vacuum of football content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 AKC's 1st Job With the Circus ""Now I'm happy as a little GIIIIIRL." 557231[/snapback] Why don't you go snuggle with your Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi dolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Why don't you go snuggle with your Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi dolls. 557378[/snapback] You are just too je jeune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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