dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 in their history, the bills have made the following picks in the first round for offensive linemen: 2002 - mike williams 1995 - ruben brown 1992 - john fina (not great, of course, but he was drafted at the end of the first round and had 3 very good seasons over his career -- 1993, 1995, and 1998) 1986 - will wolford 1980 - jim ritcher 1973 - joe delamielleure lesson one: usually, offensive line picks in the first round are among the surest bets. lesson two: given that drafting offensive linemen in the first round is almost always a sure thing (particularly for the bills), mike williams has to rate as possibly the biggest bust in bills draft history -- worse than patulski, tony hunter, and dokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 in their history, the bills have made the following picks in the first round for offensive linemen: 2002 - mike williams 1995 - ruben brown 1992 - john fina (not great, of course, but he was drafted at the end of the first round and had 3 very good seasons over his career -- 1993, 1995, and 1998) 1986 - will wolford 1980 - jim ritcher 1973 - joe delamielleure lesson one: usually, offensive line picks in the first round are among the surest bets. lesson two: given that drafting offensive linemen in the first round is almost always a sure thing (particularly for the bills), mike williams has to rate as possibly the biggest bust in bills draft history -- worse than patulski, tony hunter, and dokes. 549305[/snapback] I think the problem with labeling BIG Mike is a bust is a matter of perception as to what he was drafted to do. If he was drafted to be the next Will Wilford ie a franchise Left OT than yes he is a bust. However if he was drafted to be a franchise Right OT than bust isn't a good term, as IMHO he is an slightly above average Right OT when healthy. Though he definately wasn't worth the 4th overall pick no matter how you convey it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Ruben had a real good rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradDobler Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 in their history, the bills have made the following picks in the first round for offensive linemen: <snip> 1980 - jim ritcher <snip> lesson one: usually, offensive line picks in the first round are among the surest bets. lesson two: given that drafting offensive linemen in the first round is almost always a sure thing (particularly for the bills), mike williams has to rate as possibly the biggest bust in bills draft history -- worse than patulski, tony hunter, and dokes. 549305[/snapback] Hi all - First post... Jim Ritcher was an Outland Trophy winning center who took many years to develop to his Super Bowl RG position. I remember watching quite a few games when he came in to relieve (or in the case of a certain St. Louis game where Dobler was benched, start in place of) my namesake (n.b. I am not he, but Connie is still one of my all time favorite Bills...watching him pull on Joe Cribbs running plays with two bad knees told me all I needed to know about his cojones.) and so many times Fergy would be sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 Hi all - First post... Jim Ritcher was an Outland Trophy winning center who took many years to develop to his Super Bowl RG position. I remember watching quite a few games when he came in to relieve (or in the case of a certain St. Louis game where Dobler was benched, start in place of) my namesake (n.b. I am not he, but Connie is still one of my all time favorite Bills...watching him pull on Joe Cribbs running plays with two bad knees told me all I needed to know about his cojones.) and so many times Fergy would be sacked. 549419[/snapback] you're right about ritcher, but he did develop and progress nicely over time. he was never regarded as a bust in his first few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 Ruben had a real good rookie year. 549329[/snapback] he had a lot more seasons than one good one, and i'd argue that his best season ever was 2001 (despite the fact that the line overall played terribly). and he's a better guard for the bears this season than the 2 guards presently playing for the bills (i do realize that villarrial has been banged up throughout the season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 he had a lot more seasons than one good one, and i'd argue that his best season ever was 2001 (despite the fact that the line overall played terribly). and he's a better guard for the bears this season than the 2 guards presently playing for the bills (i do realize that villarrial has been banged up throughout the season). 549455[/snapback] Of course Ruben is also playing next to Olin Kreutz, who is arguably the best Center in the league. While I'm not a complete Treague basher like many here are, I think talent much like success rubs off on players/teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 Of course Ruben is also playing next to Olin Kreutz, who is arguably the best Center in the league. I think talent much like success rubs off on players/teams. 549461[/snapback] i'm actually starting to think that having a great center is the key to sustained offensive line success. one of the two o-line constants at pitt under donohoe was dawson, and he was great. john jackson was the other, and he was excellent as well. he wasn't as good as dawson, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 i'm actually starting to think that having a great center is the key to sustained offensive line success. one of the two o-line constants at pitt under donohoe was dawson, and he was great. john jackson was the other, and he was excellent as well. he wasn't as good as dawson, though. 549463[/snapback] Next to Left OT, Most (including yours truly) feel Center is the second most important position on the O-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 in their history, the bills have made the following picks in the first round for offensive linemen: 2002 - mike williams 1995 - ruben brown 1992 - john fina (not great, of course, but he was drafted at the end of the first round and had 3 very good seasons over his career -- 1993, 1995, and 1998) 1986 - will wolford 1980 - jim ritcher 1973 - joe delamielleure lesson one: usually, offensive line picks in the first round are among the surest bets. lesson two: given that drafting offensive linemen in the first round is almost always a sure thing (particularly for the bills), mike williams has to rate as possibly the biggest bust in bills draft history -- worse than patulski, tony hunter, and dokes. 549305[/snapback] Great post! Of the 6 OTs in this season's probowl, all of them were drafted in the first round. The latest pick was Willie Anderson, who was the 10th selection. As for OG, it becomes a tad easier to find them. The 6 probowl Guards consisted of 2 1st round picks, 2 seconds, 1 3rd, and an undrafted free agent. The 4 all pro OCs consisted of 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd, and an undrafted free agent. Don't ask me why, but after all of these years of futility up front, I have a very strong feeling that the Bills will finally make strides toward correcting this chronic problem up front this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradDobler Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 you're right about ritcher, but he did develop and progress nicely over time. he was never regarded as a bust in his first few seasons. 549452[/snapback] So true...but the Eighties were a very different time. Ritcher was disappointing for quite a while, and took several years to enter the starting lineup. I doubt if any 1st round pick would be given that kind of leeway now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 So true...but the Eighties were a very different time. Ritcher was disappointing for quite a while, and took several years to enter the starting lineup. I doubt if any 1st round pick would be given that kind of leeway now. 549514[/snapback] Ritcher weighed 238..Williams 350. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Ritcher weighed 238..Williams 350. 549522[/snapback] I'm not sure of my point. ??..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 Great post! Of the 6 OTs in this season's probowl, all of them were drafted in the first round. The latest pick was Willie Anderson, who was the 10th selection. As for OG, it becomes a tad easier to find them. The 6 probowl Guards consisted of 2 1st round picks, 2 seconds, 1 3rd, and an undrafted free agent. The 4 all pro OCs consisted of 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd, and an undrafted free agent. Don't ask me why, but after all of these years of futility up front, I have a very strong feeling that the Bills will finally make strides toward correcting this chronic problem up front this year. 549508[/snapback] this is a great post. almost every pro bowl lineman is a first day pick (14 out of 16), including the guards. over half (9) are first rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Mike William's NFL history is likely to look a lot different than his history with the Bills. He's at a position where players 10 years his senior are regularly the most effective in the league, and after only 4 seasons he's relatively young for an OT as far as the NFL is concerned. While his tenure will rightfully end with us since his contract is unsupportable based upon his lack of contribution to date, he's as likely to go on to another team and have a productive career as he is to be written off as a guy who couldn't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 Mike William's NFL history is likely to look a lot different than his history with the Bills. He's at a position where players 10 years his senior are regularly the most effective in the league, and after only 4 seasons he's relatively young for an OT as far as the NFL is concerned. While his tenure will rightfully end with us since his contract is unsupportable based upon his lack of contribution to date, he's as likely to go on to another team and have a productive career as he is to be written off as a guy who couldn't cut it. 549587[/snapback] i absolutely agree that this may happen, but since i'm talking about the bills and the bills alone (i.e., the only team i actually care about), he's an unqualified bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 That's a good post - I think in general you'll find first round lineman through the past 20 years have been pretty good. Lately though, there have been more of the "bust" category - might be due to the prevelence of steroids. Anyway - I would ilke a lineman for them again - and where they're picking - it should be a pretty good one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradDobler Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Ritcher weighed 238..Williams 350.<br>*and*<br>I'm not sure of my point. ??..?? 549522[/snapback] 238? His draft weight? He was considered very undersized duing the SB years, but not THAT light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Ruben had a real good rookie year. 549329[/snapback] Yes he did. He was a pro-bowler after that for the next several seasons. I remember his rookie year when his block sprang A. Smith against Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Hi all - First post... Jim Ritcher was an Outland Trophy winning center who took many years to develop to his Super Bowl RG position. I remember watching quite a few games when he came in to relieve (or in the case of a certain St. Louis game where Dobler was benched, start in place of) my namesake (n.b. I am not he, but Connie is still one of my all time favorite Bills...watching him pull on Joe Cribbs running plays with two bad knees told me all I needed to know about his cojones.) and so many times Fergy would be sacked. 549419[/snapback] My brother used to call Richter the "Outlandish Trophy Winner". His play used to make my brother apoplectic - "How can a guard pulling out in front of the play not hit a single person time after time!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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