JimBob2232 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 The problem is that Mularkey is not in the mindset of developing a QB. He is in the "win at all costs (to save my job)" mindset. This is the problem. Also dont discount the possiblity that JP may actually BE injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 So? What if it gets picked off and returned for a TD because the timing was all screwy? EVERY QB has plays like that - virtually every week. The difference between the good ones and the bad is minimalizing them and keeping your team in games. 544881[/snapback] The difference is, most NFL QB's can actually reach the endzone with a toss from midfield. KH knew he would barely make the 10 and didn't want the embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbills17 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Seriously folks. I don't know how many "Holcombites" there are on this board that are going to flame this, but it's the truth. If J.P. Losman can't beat out Kelly Holcomb and he's so bad that Mularkey doesn't want to start him in a meaningless game, then we need to get another QB. Kelly Holcomb is a solid backup. He had MONSTER games in Cleveland as well. But he's just far too inconsistent to be a full-time starter. Now in what fashion should we get another QB remains the question. Should we keep Holcomb and J.P. and bring in someone like Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsay, or Kyle Boller (EDIT: He might be kept after his solid outings the past couple games) to battle hoping that one of them just needs a change of scenery? Should we lose the Jets game and move up a couple spots to grab Matt Leinart or Vince Young as the new savior? Or maybe even work a trade with San Diego to get Philip Rivers in here? All in all, if we go into 2006 with Kelly Holcomb as the starting QB; we're not going to the playoffs. If we do, we're not going far. He's not the future of this team and I question whether or not he can be the present. It's obvious we have to rebuild this team from the ground up. Holcomb is not someone to build a new team around. If J.P.'s not the answer, we need to find someone who is. 544697[/snapback] I think you're dead wrong. A good football team could win a Superbowl with KH just as Dilfer did. And KH is a better QB than Dilfer was. He's a good QB, I don't care if he's not the ultimate future. Trying to 'trial by fire' a QB is a total crapshoot, JP could turn out to be a bust so what's the point? I've said this before, and I'll say it again, a QB can develop just fine on the bench!! What is with you people feeling like he HAS to play now? Wake up and look around the NFL, plenty of QBs have developed on the bench and stepped in and played at a very high level. Bulger, Pennington, Hasselbeck, Brady, etc, etc. He can learn on the bench and play when he's good enough, he's not near there at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbills17 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 You're right, we should count garbage time stats against the guy. And the fact that he was on teams that had guys like Manning and Couch on the roster. I prefer to actually watch football. After doing that, I've realized that Kelly Holcomb has the ability to read a defense and throw the ball to the correct receiver the majority of the time. He's able to keep less talented teams in games against good competition (playoff game vs Pittsburgh/last 2 games in Cincinnati). Stretching the field is unbelievably overrated. Kerry Collins is the prototype QB guys like you look for - except he can't actually play football. Joe Montana couldn't stretch the field and Tom Brady struggles with his accuracy over 20 yards. JP Losman is not ready to play in the NFL and Mike Mularkey and his staff are much better judges of that than you are. Playing the guy before they are ready is more likely to ruin them than making them sit on the bench. There is a ton of evidence to back that up. Stop comparing Losman to Manning and Palmer. It's not valid. 544821[/snapback] Thank you for making some sense!! People here are stuck in the Losman-will-be-a-star mentality ala Palmer and it's ridiculous to compare them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHAN Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 KH has got a 92.3 QB rating..What more do you want.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted December 29, 2005 Author Share Posted December 29, 2005 I think you're dead wrong. A good football team could win a Superbowl with KH just as Dilfer did. And KH is a better QB than Dilfer was. He's a good QB, I don't care if he's not the ultimate future. 544896[/snapback] One HUGE difference though..... Trent Dilfer didn't have to do anything because he had one of the greatest defenses in the history of the NFL backing his offense up. We don't. We don't even have a mediocre defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Stretching the field is unbelievably overrated. Kerry Collins is the prototype QB guys like you look for - except he can't actually play football. Joe Montana couldn't stretch the field and Tom Brady struggles with his accuracy over 20 yards. Stop comparing Losman to Manning and Palmer. It's not valid. 544821[/snapback] ahem, ahem, stop throwing names like Brady and Montana out there when talking about Holcomb please. It is most certainly not valid!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Do I now need to toss a list of young QBs who got injured or lost their game completely because they were thrown to the wolves too early? I guarantee my list is going to be alot longer than yours. Let's see your list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Let's see your list. 544986[/snapback] Quarterbacks Drafted Take your pick of successes vs failures in the first round. Ask yourself why guys like David Carr are being thrown under the bus because they can't perform behind woeful offensive lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 OMG LOSMAN HAS A STRONG ARM START HIM NOW!!! Look I get it JP Losman was the guy we invested draft picks in. Why I dont know but thats what the front office did. He does deserve an opportunity to prove himself, but comparing him to Manning or Palmer is invalid. Like AD pointed out he played at Tulane. It's not gonna happen overnight if at all for losman and I honestly doubt it will. He has physical talent, but I have my questions about him. He strikes me as a guy who thinks his physical talent will carry him along. Right now he's just not as good as Holcomb and thats not a knock. Theres a lot of qb's who aren't as good as KH. Holcomb has great accuracy, spreads the ball around to every receiver and knows how to manage an offense. So What he doesn't have the strongest arm. He's the type of qb you can win games with if you build around. He proved he can play playoff caliber football in cleveland and I'd like to see him get a real chance here. I dont get the Holcomb bashing. The guy's done nothing but play well when given the chance here. Sat behind Peyton, sat behind couch when people had hope for him. I'd like to see KH get a fair shake. If nothing else his play this season has proven he deserves that opportunity. You talk about not understand "holcombites" I dont understand the love for a guy who's done nothing but played 2 good quaters of football just cause he was drafted. Build an oline for a run balanced team and rebuild the dline and I bet We stand a much better chance with Holcomb then we will with JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Quarterbacks Drafted Take your pick of successes vs failures in the first round. Ask yourself why guys like David Carr are being thrown under the bus because they can't perform behind woeful offensive lines. 545084[/snapback] Great page there. So, how long do we have him sit and collect moss? Two more seasons? Three? At what point will he be "ready" enough to actually get in and play so we know what he is and is not capable of doing? And what do you do in the meantime? Start Kelly Holcomb, he of the 6-8 career record? I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Last I checked, football isn't live-or-die. </facenda> 544855[/snapback] facenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 What you guys are missing is that Holcolmb is going to be 33 opening day next year. He is not young. He IS NOT THE FUTURE of this franchise. JP may not be either, but holcolmb is NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Great page there. So, how long do we have him sit and collect moss? Two more seasons? Three? At what point will he be "ready" enough to actually get in and play so we know what he is and is not capable of doing? And what do you do in the meantime? Start Kelly Holcomb, he of the 6-8 career record? I hope not. 545119[/snapback] I don't know how long. I'm sure Sam Wyche probably does. I think alot of people are selling Holcomb short. His career record isn't a very good measure. Look at his numbers against Pittsburgh in the playoffs. Then realize how poor the talent around him was in that game. The thing that concerns me about KH is how he'll fair in a late season game when the wind blows. I think outside of that if you give him an average NFL oline and a defense that can play competently against the run he'll get you to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Quarterbacks Drafted Take your pick of successes vs failures in the first round. Ask yourself why guys like David Carr are being thrown under the bus because they can't perform behind woeful offensive lines. 545084[/snapback] No doubt, but there is always a degree of pressure to get a 1st round qb into the action - whether it be from the fans, or from ownership wanting to see what it paid (often dearly) for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Theres a lot of qb's who aren't as good as KH. Holcomb has great accuracy, spreads the ball around to every receiver and knows how to manage an offense. So What he doesn't have the strongest arm. He's the type of qb you can win games with if you build around. He proved he can play playoff caliber football in cleveland and I'd like to see him get a real chance here. I dont get the Holcomb bashing. The guy's done nothing but play well when given the chance here. We stand a much better chance with Holcomb then we will with JP. 545098[/snapback] OMG Flutie v Jhonson written all over it! All he does is win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Quarterbacks Drafted Take your pick of successes vs failures in the first round. Ask yourself why guys like David Carr are being thrown under the bus because they can't perform behind woeful offensive lines. 545084[/snapback] Hey great page! Those names brought back some memories. Naturally, I have an important question Didn't Scott Mitchell play for Utah State and not Utah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Hey great page! Those names brought back some memories. Naturally, I have an important question Didn't Scott Mitchell play for Utah State and not Utah? 545138[/snapback] he played for utah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 KH has got a 92.3 QB rating..What more do you want.? 544909[/snapback] John Elway has a career rating of 79.9, I think I may take him over Holcomb. Elway was 148-86 Holcomb is 4-3, passer rating is highly overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 I don't know how long. I'm sure Sam Wyche probably does. I think alot of people are selling Holcomb short. His career record isn't a very good measure. Look at his numbers against Pittsburgh in the playoffs. Then realize how poor the talent around him was in that game. The thing that concerns me about KH is how he'll fair in a late season game when the wind blows. I think outside of that if you give him an average NFL oline and a defense that can play competently against the run he'll get you to the playoffs. 545128[/snapback] AD, you're making waaaaaaaaay too much sense in this thread. by the way, a legit knock against holcomb is that he has gotten hurt a bit over his career. of course, that may be entirely random and may never happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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